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RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 12:45:13 AM   
deannalynn


Posts: 29
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		Warm Greetings Lady Beckett,

I would assume I am the girl that Master Leonidas is speaking about.

I have been involved in both types of relationships and it seems the greatest difference is frame of mind. I have never filled out a contract, though its not something I wouldnt do. If this is what pleases the man and I have decided to submit to his will and be owned, I dont think its my place to start choosing what I will and will not do. I was handed a check sheet once and honestly didnt know how to fill it out.

Its a catch 22 situation really. I wouldnt submit my will or surrender to a man I didnt trust, who didnt have similiar values , morals and ethics. Its all about trust. I feel that I am not controlling the relationship by telling him what he is allowed to do with me. My purpose is to please him. Its really finding harmony with someone so the needs of the slave are met while serving his pleasure .

I remember years ago a certain situation where I was not comfortable, in fact I was panicing. The man knew, but I would guess he felt it was a direction he desired me to go, to push me to my mental limits at the time. The weeks leading up, I fought internally with my need to serve and please and something I felt I couldnt accomplish. I could not deny him anything, and did as he wished. The greatest satisfaction was knowing I had pleased him, in fact i think I was floating after.

I have heard some pretty bizarre things about what a man would desire of me or do to me if I served them. These are not situations I would find myself in. I am very careful in who I serve as is anyone. I am not about to give my will up to a man that would harm or hurt me. There is no foul in expressing what things I struggle with if allowed, its just whether or not the man decides he wishes to push or persue them.

Once one has crossed the line and truly surrendered their will to another, there is no turning back. There are positives and negatives to everything and every situation, this is just one I am most comfortable in. I dont think being a slave has anything to do with low self esteem, being a doormat, or being abused...its just a different type of relationship.


wishing you well,

deanna

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 5:43:00 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

First it is "well, they may have no limits, but they baby their slaves, and they don't do the really good, edgy, risky stuff, so they don't need them". No reply about what the really good, edgy, risky stuff is, but that's OK.


Glad you don't mind that I don't answer all of your questions. *wink*

I never said they had no limits, what I said was they don't need as many safeguards (which wouldbe an expression of the limits that they do have in a form of a contract or even a simple admission of the reality that they do have limits) because they simply don't play as hard. And that statement came in a series of "or" clauses as one possible choice.

quote:


Now it's "no limits doesn't really mean no limits because chattel slavery isn't legal, so it's all make believe anyway".


The two are not incompatible. All people have limits. To pretend otherwise is silly. Of course that is just my opinion.

quote:


I have no need to run down what you do. I'm not at all threatened by the way that you do things. I'll just tell you that what you do doesn't happen to be for me.


You're kidding me, right? You think I am threatend by what you do? Quite honestly, the more I read of you the more I think of your style as "Ozzie and Harriet with a whip." I am really not trying to run you down, just telling you that what you do doesn't work for me. If you are feeling run down, perhaps you should check your feet for fitting shoes.

quote:


I have defended the way that you do things twice on this thread. I think that what you do is fine for you, and probably the right thing as far as you are concerned. It just isn't for me.


I don't think what I do needs any defending, and I certainly wouldn't want you to be the one defending it if you were. Your "defenses," in my eyes, are full of condescension and a clear lack of understanding of the attraction to riskier (let's say needle play since you mentioned how it had no interest to you) activities.

I also don't think I ever attacked what you do. I simply explained how it looks to me. If you would like me to defend your style the way you have mine, here you go:
Some people who aren't interested in the anything more than an obey or leave type of relationship probably shouldn't have contracts.

quote:


She wanted to be his slave, and so she begged to be. From that time, until the time that she begs to be released from that collar, she is his, to do with exactly as he pleases. She can walk away at any time, but until she does, she is every bit a slave.


And your point is? The only possible point I can find is that those who don't play this way are not "every bit a slave."

** WARNING** Alternative philosophy follows. If this offends, bypass this post.

A slave is every bit a slave even if they have no Master. A slave is a slave if they have ten contracts or only a "kneel or leave" understanding. A slave is a slave even when they mouth off or fight back. A slave is about what a person is, not what a person does. Clearly defining limits and expectations does not make one any less of a slave.

quote:


You will have to pardon us, Taggard, if we don't choose either to embrace your way or face the fact that we are poseurs as you suggest. You see, we've been doing it way too long to buy that, or take you very seriously at all when you say it.


Your skin is growing a bit thin after all those years. *smile* I never claimed you were a poseur, just that you have a style that doesn't care to contemplate some of the physical and mental realities of the consensual slavery paradox. If that works for you, more power to you!

One last thought. In this post, you clearly showed that you do have safewords, even in your style of play. Your safeword is "beg for release." You must realize that it is an "escape clause" forced into your dynamic by the reality that a slave may be asked to do things she doesn't want to do and can get out of doing them by leaving the dynamic, right? You have a contract, it just isn't written. It is a verbal contract that goes something like "Obey, or if you don't want to ask to be released."

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 7:40:57 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You're kidding me, right? You think I am threatend by what you do?


I can only judge by your behavior here. I posted something saying that contracts are good when people do something short of absolute submission without conditions. They spell out what the conditions are before the "edgy, risky, interesting" stuff starts and people get their feelings hurt. In response, I got in a couple of posts. The first one speculating that we don't do anything cool, risky, edgy, interesting, etc. etc. enough to make contracts so essential. I'm sure you have some experience that would lead you to think so, but for the life of me I don't know what it would be. The second one saying that "no limits" slavery is, and I quote, "pretend". The "ozzy and harriet with a whip" snivel here is just a continuation of the same. Seems like the behavior of a man that feels threatened to me. I could be reading you wrong.

quote:

I don't think what I do needs any defending, and I certainly wouldn't want you to be the one defending it if you were.


You should want someone like me defending it, at least on this thread. The OP expressed pretty much my point of view, and questioned the validity of yours. Someone like me defending your way probably carries a little more weight, at least on this thread. Not to worry though, I won't expect you to jump in on my behalf if the situation reverses.

quote:

A slave is every bit a slave even if they have no Master. A slave is a slave if they have ten contracts or only a "kneel or leave" understanding.


You have every right to think that way. There are a few folks on this thread who are expressing doubts that slavery is still slavery when there are carve-outs and caveats. Thinking people can differ about things like that.

quote:

A slave is a slave even when they mouth off or fight back.


You obviously haven't been around many of our slaves.

quote:

A slave is about what a person is, not what a person does. Clearly defining limits and expectations does not make one any less of a slave.


We part company here. I would contend that a slave is someone who surrenders their freedom to someone else. It has everything to do with what they do. They may do it because of what they are, but the act is still required.

quote:

I never claimed you were a poseur

quote:

Do you want to pretend that you are a slave with no limits, or do you want to embrace the limits.


In a public forum, Taggard, you are entitled to your words, but you also own them. Revisionism within the same thread just makes you look disingenuous.

quote:

One last thought. In this post, you clearly showed that you do have safewords, even in your style of play. Your safeword is "beg for release." You must realize that it is an "escape clause" forced into your dynamic by the reality that a slave may be asked to do things she doesn't want to do and can get out of doing them by leaving the dynamic, right?


Well, you can equate ending a relationship with saying "yellow" to alter the course of a scene when you're feeling discomfited if it makes you feel better, but you're grasping at some pretty thin straw there.

quote:

You have a contract, it just isn't written. It is a verbal contract that goes something like "Obey, or if you don't want to ask to be released."


A slave voluntarily surrenders rights and freedom to their master. They are given no contract that reserves certain of those rights and freedoms. They surrender them all. They are enslaved until they choose to reclaim their rights and freedom, and leave. Yes, that is our definition of consentual, as opposed to involuntary slavery. We do not contract with slaves. We do not allow them to reserve certain rights and freedoms and only surrender those that they choose to surrender. We do not allow them to negotiate the terms of their submission. They submit absolutely, or not at all. We do not believe that slaves, being rightless while in the condition of bondage, have any standing to contract. I can't tell if you really aren't grasping that, or if you just don't want it to be so, because you think it invalidates what you're doing somehow.

Human fulfillment is the aim here, Taggard, lest we forget. I don't think that our way is superior to your way, if they both are equally effective at achieving that end for their respective practitioners. People will be drawn to one way or the other, depending on their own needs and predispositions. Which is all well and good as far as I am concerned.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/6/2004 8:10:36 AM >

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 8:16:49 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		Ahhhhhhh Like Spring isn't it??? Welcome to the collarme message boards, Deanna!!! You are absolutely eloquent! But I would have expected nothing less. I personally don't have a lot to say about contracts. lol I do have opinions about them, but none of them terribly educated, so I don't voice them in public around educated people. Although I will say that I believe they are an excellent idea as a basis for communication and agreement, and the foundation for growth, and the measurement of same. Although it seems to me that a "couple" could just have a regularly scheduled "moment", just look at each other excitedly and say, "We're Growing!!!", and move on. *sigh*

I look forward to seeing a lot more of you around here!

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to deannalynn)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 9:12:38 AM   
ThornBlood


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Human fulfillment is the aim here, Taggard, lest we forget. I don't think that our way is superior to your way, if they both are equally effective at achieving that end for their respective practitioners. People will be drawn to one way or the other, depending on their own needs and predispositions. Which is all well and good as far as I am concerned.

Leonidas


I don't see either method being good/bad. Just different ways of communicating. Sometimes (Heh.. being old and all) it is a lot easier to go back and read something that was written rather than relying on my rather fallible memory. From what I've seen on different threads, what TallDarkandWitty is doing with the contract is communicating. Reading a slaves diary/journal is just another way of delving into their mind. While not as focused say as a question/answer, there will be thing in there that bring out unexpected (unthought of) experiences to light, and could bring about a good question or two. What makes them tick. Question/answer periods are another. Seems to me that most of the methods are really drawn to getting to know one another. And while we can say no limits, everybody has limits (bad childhood experiences, etc) . I want to know where they are before I go stepping my foot in unexpectedly. Just my opinion of course. Take what ya want and leave the rest.

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 9:35:22 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

Reading a slaves diary/journal is just another way of delving into their mind. While not as focused say as a question/answer, there will be thing in there that bring out unexpected (unthought of) experiences to light, and could bring about a good question or two. What makes them tick.


My subs are required to maintain a journal. They don't know when I'm going to read it, or that I have. I don't want them writing "to" me, or "for" me. Although, in the beginning, each and every one of them do. I find the information to be far more personal, current, and accurate, than a questionaire.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to ThornBlood)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 9:50:38 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

And while we can say no limits, everybody has limits (bad childhood experiences, etc) . I want to know where they are before I go stepping my foot in unexpectedly.


I think that there is a difference between a limit, and a limitation. A limit, is a slave saying "I won't". Limits get codified into a contract. A limitation is something that either they simply cannot do, or even if they do it out of a desire to serve and please, renders them less valuable, either temporarily or permanently. I have said elsewhere, that when a man owns a slave it is encumbant on him to manage his property as to increase her worth, and to derive the greatest value from her service.

Just as an off the wall example, if I had a slave who was deathly afraid of water, and everytime I told her to sweep the deck around the pool she did it, but she had a full blown panic attack and wasn't worth a shit for days after, I have a decision to make. How important is it for me to have her sweep the deck? Would I get more value out of the slave by paying the pool man an extra 20 to sweep the deck, and have her serve in other ways? Probably. I am the master. How I manage her is for me, and me alone to decide. She doesn't have a contract anywhere that precludes deck sweeping, nor does she have a safe-word that countermands the deck-sweeping command. She communicates her fears, desires, and aspirations to her master, and trusts that he will manage her as any somewhat enlightened owner of valuable property would. If I think it's important enough to me to get her over her water phobia, I might take the time to do so. In that process, she may find herself in very uncomfortable positions from time to time, but again, she trusts that the motivation of her master is to make her more valuable, not less.

For us, these are just issues of ownership and value. Slaves are property. They are valuable. Enhancing the value of what you own is good. These are really very straightforward concepts. We don't see "the dynamic" as a mysterious foreign country to explore. It's something quite natural and common.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to ThornBlood)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 9:56:29 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		You're one in a million, Leo. I mean, that's great! If I were a slave and I were reading what you wrote there, I'd feel good. I'd want a Master like that. But baby, in the REAL WORLD, you are the MINOR minority. So the contract thing might just be a "safety" for some folks. Just a thought.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 10:02:19 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		~*~SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC BLATHER, PLEASE IGNORE IF YOU'RE AVIDLY FOLLOWING THE THREAD!!~*~

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

I think that there is a difference between a limit, and a limitation. A limit, is a slave saying "I won't". Limits get codified into a contract. A limitation is something that either they simply cannot do, or even if they do it out of a desire to serve and please, renders them less valuable, either temporarily or permanently.


You know, I didn't think this could happen on the internet, but you've actually changed my mind about something.

My limits, what I call my limits, for the most part should not be limits. They should be limitations. There is -one- thing in my life that scares me to the point of innaction, and inability to function. I have previously called that a "limit" simply because I DO NOT want it done to me. However, having been with my Partner as long as I have, I have to trust that he -knows- this already. I don't need to state "this is a limit" rather "This terrifies me." and trust that he'll only ask me to do it if it will make him more happy than anything else.

Huh....perceptual realignment going on here :) Thank you.

~*~END OFF TOPIC BLATHER, BACK TO THREAD~*~

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 10:03:32 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Leonidas: If the relationship stops short of absolute, unconditional submission, and, absent some of the attention to character that you and I have discussed, it probably should , a contract that spells out the conditions of submission is probably a good thing.


quote:

Beckett: So the contract thing might just be a "safety" for some folks. Just a thought.


I don't think that we could agree any more about that. How what I said was construed as peeing in Taggard's cheerios, I'm not quite sure.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/6/2004 10:05:19 AM >

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 10:12:10 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

You're kidding me, right? You think I am threatend by what you do?


I can only judge by your behavior here. I posted something saying that contracts are good when people do something short of absolute submission without conditions.


And I simply responded that 1) I think they are good for a lot more than that and 2) That absolute submission without conditions is *in my opinion* a pretty fiction, and good for people who can't handle the required introspection of a contract.

The OP was on the "why" of contracts. You, a person who obviously does not value contracts personally, replied in a way that was a rather "backhanded" defense. Not only was it condescending, but it was *in my opinion* rather incomplete.

We will never agree on this. What you see as a strength (the trust and commitment required to live under a verbal "kneel or leave contract"), I see as a lack of self-understanding and self-expression. I see your "beg for release" safeword very much like I view the "velcro" collars. You see my safewords and limits as "topping from the bottom." You see contracts which define limits and multiple safewords as somehow making submission somehow less "absolute" than only having one safeword, and that safeword ends the relationship.

quote:


The first one speculating that we don't do anything cool, risky, edgy, interesting, etc. etc. enough to make contracts so essential. I'm sure you have some experience that would lead you to think so, but for the life of me I don't know what it would be.


You, yourself, admited it in a previous post, and I quote: "You are also right that the things that we might do with a slave are typically less extreme than some of the things that I've seen attempted at play parties." (http://www.collarme.com/forum/fb.asp?m=19003) I guess I was assuming I could use you as an expert witness.


quote:


The second one saying that "no limits" slavery is, and I quote, "pretend".


That is my opinion and I have written long missives in defence of it. *In my opinion*, everyone has limits. You can acknowledge or you can pretend. Ignoring that fact doesn't make you a poseur, it makes you someone who ignores the fact that everyone has limits.

quote:


Seems like the behavior of a man that feels threatened to me. I could be reading you wrong.


Threatened by what, exactly?

quote:


You should want someone like me defending it, at least on this thread.


Why on earth would I want someone defending something that I don't think needs defending? I coundn't care less if people used intricate written contracts or simple verbal "kneel or leave" contracts. I don't even care much if they actually understand why I do. As I have said before, posting on this board is all about me.

quote:


quote:

A slave is every bit a slave even if they have no Master. A slave is a slave if they have ten contracts or only a "kneel or leave" understanding.


You have every right to think that way. There are a few folks on this thread who are expressing doubts that slavery is still slavery when there are carve-outs and caveats. Thinking people can differ about things like that.


Don't you consider the fact that one of your slaves can "beg for release" at any time a "caveat"? How is submission under one caveat any more absolute than submission under several?

quote:


quote:

A slave is a slave even when they mouth off or fight back.


You obviously haven't been around many of our slaves.


Not sure what you are saying here. Either you are agreeing with me, that slaves can be slaves and fight back (which makes your statement a non-sequitor), or you are disagreeing with me and implying that if I saw your well-behaved-at-all-times slaves it would change my mind that other slaves could fight back and still be slaves. Could you clarify?

quote:


quote:

A slave is about what a person is, not what a person does. Clearly defining limits and expectations does not make one any less of a slave.


We part company here. I would contend that a slave is someone who surrenders their freedom to someone else. It has everything to do with what they do. They may do it because of what they are, but the act is still required.


Many parallels to the whole "Who is dominant?" thread. I see slaves as being the one possesing the inate qualities, you see it as the dominant who does. We will just have to live with the fact that we will never agree on this.

quote:


quote:

I never claimed you were a poseur

quote:

Do you want to pretend that you are a slave with no limits, or do you want to embrace the limits.


In a public forum, Taggard, you are entitled to your words, but you also own them. Revisionism within the same thread just makes you look disingenuous.


How do you find that the second statment proves the first? *In my opinion*, a poseur is someone pretending to be dominant. I never claimed that of you. In fact, in the second statement I am talking about slaves, so unless you are a slave, the second statement says nothing about you at all.

If you think that a poseur is someone who pretends that limits do not exist, and you feel that you do that, then you are trying on that shoe all by itself. Don't blame me if it fits.


quote:


Well, you can equate ending a relationship with saying "yellow" to alter the course of a scene when you're feeling discomfited if it makes you feel better, but you're grasping at some pretty thin straw there.


I suppose I think in absolutes, black and white. A safeword is a safeword. They have a purpose (to communicate and protect). You use them, I use them. I use more than you do, but we both have them, and for the same reasons.

I see no honor in only having one safeword, and only having one possible reaction to that safeword. You do. We'll just never agree.

quote:


quote:

You have a contract, it just isn't written. It is a verbal contract that goes something like "Obey, or if you don't want to ask to be released."


A slave voluntarily surrenders rights and freedom to their master.


All except one, the right and freedom to beg for release.

quote:


They are given no contract that reserves certain of those rights and freedoms.


The verbal contract ("Kneel or leave") reserves the right and freedom to beg for release.

quote:


They surrender them all.


All except one, the right and freedom to beg for release.

quote:


They are enslaved until they choose to reclaim their rights and freedom, and leave.


Well, it looks more like they trade the right and freedom to beg for release for whatever rights and freedoms they had before they begged for a collar.

quote:


Yes, that is our definition of consentual, as opposed to involuntary slavery. We do not contract with slaves.


Of course you do. It isn't written, but it is very clearly a verbal contract: "Kneel or leave." Simple, elegant, beautiful in its own way, but clearly a contract.

quote:


We do not allow them to reserve certain rights and freedoms and only surrender those that they choose to surrender. We do not allow them to negotiate the terms of their submission.


Your negotiations are simple and institutionalized. You stated your negotiation procedure very clearly in another thread. Step 1, tell them that this life is probably not for them. Step 2, show them where to learn what this life entails. Step 3, if they agree to give up all freedoms but the freedom to beg for release, allow them to beg for a collar.

The negotiation is an internal one within the slave. Are the rewards of having as your only right and freedom being able to beg for release what she wants in life?

There is no giving on your part. Agian, you see honor in that. I do not.

quote:


They submit absolutely, or not at all.


Well, as long as you don't think of absolutely as meaning what the dictionary says it means, I guess so. Or maybe you just ignore the right and freedom to be able to beg for release. But then we wouldn't be talking about consensual slavery.

quote:


We do not believe that slaves, being rightless while in the condition of bondage, have any standing to contract.


Well, rightless except for the right to beg for release, and if they have no standing to contract, how did they enter into the condition of bondage in the first place?

quote:


I can't tell if you really aren't grasping that, or if you just don't want it to be so, because you think it invalidates what you're doing somehow.


I think I grasp completely. What you do is a much less intricate, much less wordy, much less paperworky version of what I do. You have one contract that is non-negotiable and one safeword, for which there is one response.

quote:


Human fulfillment is the aim here, Taggard, lest we forget. I don't think that our way is superior to your way, if they both are equally effective at achieving that end for their respective practitioners. People will be drawn to one way or the other, depending on their own needs and predispositions. Which is all well and good as far as I am concerned.


Of course, of course. Doesn't that all go without saying?

There is nothing that I think is superior in a general sense about my style. Of course, it is superior for me, but if there is another paperwork freak within 100 miles of me as I type this, I would be shocked. I think, and I would say this is proven by the numbers, there are a lot more people practicing your style than mine. I am not out to convert anyone...I just came here for an argument.

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 10:33:08 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Well, that was just a very long way of saying that there is actually consent involved in consentual slavery. Yep, there is consent involved. You have gone to some really fascinating and convoluted lengths here to try to expose the naked emperor. I know it's not because you felt threatened, so the motivation for that will remain mysterious to me, I guess.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 10:45:28 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		Leo and Tag, I borrowed a snip from your conversation up there to post a question on the submissives/slave board. Some things just fascinate me, and I just wanted to get their perspective on it. I changed your names, of course. lol Just kidding.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 11:51:03 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
I know it's not because you felt threatened, so the motivation for that will remain mysterious to me, I guess.


I am an enigma, wrapped in a riddle...

*wink*

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 1:26:51 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

My subs are required to maintain a journal. They don't know when I'm going to read it, or that I have. I don't want them writing "to" me, or "for" me. Although, in the beginning, each and every one of them do. I find the information to be far more personal, current, and accurate, than a questionaire.


M'Lady,

So is that why the live journal thing? Does this count as jounal entries?

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 3:25:29 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You, yourself, admited it in a previous post, and I quote: "You are also right that the things that we might do with a slave are typically less extreme than some of the things that I've seen attempted at play parties." (http://www.collarme.com/forum/fb.asp?m=19003) I guess I was assuming I could use you as an expert witness.


I missed this the first time. Well, I don't know what your experience has been with play parties, but I've seen some pretty wierd shit go down. It's true, I don't think I've ever seen a Gorean man, as in the example I gave, spend an hour and a half sticking needles in his slave's neck to make her look like an aboriginal from guinea. Never seen one who thought that injecting a slave's breasts with saline until they looked like cantalope was of particular interest either. Not that he couldn't if he wanted to, I just don't think that most of us would see that as anything but tedious and boring. Maybe, to you, that's the interesting, edgy, cool stuff. Different strokes. If a man wanted to go down to sears, get himself a craftsman air compressor, hang his slave upside down and spend the next two weeks teaching her to whistle dixie out of her asshole, hey, it's his slave. Just seems like a large investment of time unless you really, really like to hear someone whistle dixie, and you want to make it especially challenging.

I think more than anything, we're at different understandings of what is D/s, and what starts to be fetish play. The two examples I gave I would put in the second bucket. You might put them in the first. We are a M/s culture, and by in large, don't do much fetish play. Not really taboo, or considered excessively "edgy", just not of much interest, by in large.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/6/2004 3:33:38 PM >

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 4:26:57 PM   
Erusvi


Posts: 49
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		<50% Sarcasm begin>
Ah, how I've missed Gorean banter.
<50% Sarcasm end>

Well met, Leonidas.

_____________________________

Schno
ErusVI
Los Angeles
Owner of dahanala
www.esenem.net
[image]http://www.esenem.net/Gallery/albums/2005_08_Savage/SM_1.thumb.jpg[/image]

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 4:32:12 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		The pleasure is all mine Erusvi. I'm not generally prone to say "nice ass" to a man, but that one in your avitar is a pretty one.,

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Erusvi)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 4:36:38 PM   
Erusvi


Posts: 49
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		Well, don't worry. That's not my ass. I'm not that flexible.

_____________________________

Schno
ErusVI
Los Angeles
Owner of dahanala
www.esenem.net
[image]http://www.esenem.net/Gallery/albums/2005_08_Savage/SM_1.thumb.jpg[/image]

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/6/2004 5:43:04 PM   
WayHome


Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		Leonidas, I think that the solution to your present mystry is pretty simple. Perhaps Taggard in not threatenned by what you do, but instead, offended by your atitude towards what he does. You don't even seem to recognize your own condescension, which pervades most of your posts.

(in reply to Erusvi)
Profile   Post #: 40
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