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RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/10/2004 10:39:43 AM   
MrThorns


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I still don't have a contract with my slave and we have been together for 4 years. We live Master/slave and we both know that when I decide to do something..that is exactly what we are going to do. I am aware of her limits and she is aware of mine. I know that if I were to push her beyond her limits, I am within my rights as her Master to do so..(although I may need to be prepared for one big clean-up session...or a really pissed off slave.) We talk...A LOT. Communication and mutual understandings of the dynamics of our relationship are very important to us.

I still believe contracts to be a good thing as they provide a basic understanding of the responsibilities of each party. I may decide to draw up a contract should I take on another slave in order to outline the heirarchy of the poly relationship. I enjoy watching the relationship move fluidly without the contracts... Whatever the reason, we've been doing pretty well without one.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/10/2004 11:09:12 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
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Has this thread taught you nothing??? You need a contract right away. Not having one precludes you doing any of the edgy, interesting stuff. Not having one proves that you are incapable of the introspection required to draw one up. Most importantly, if you don't have one, you are in danger of becoming just another Ozzie and Harriet with a whip. Or was that Leave it to Beaver with a ball-gag? Hmmm... Maybe it was The Brady Bunch with a butt-plug. Well, anyway, some old TV show with some kind of kinky toy. You certainly wouldn't want that, so get off your ass and fire up the old word-processor PDQ.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/10/2004 11:24:14 AM >

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/10/2004 11:24:38 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
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Mounts up on My slave drawn chariot, cracks the firey 50-foot bullwhip and beckons my little slave-bitches to sally forth and carry My L/loftiness off through the very gates of Hell and into the D/dark A/abyss of My study so that I shalt start D/drafting said contract...or rather Command My dear little slave biotches to do it for M/me...

So it is W/written...

So shall it be done!

~LordMasterTyrantofA/allIsurvey Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/10/2004 11:33:21 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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*perking all too readily at that whipcrack*



_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/10/2004 1:23:30 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

I still don't have a contract with my slave and we have been together for 4 years.


Do you really think you have no contract with your slave? Not even a verbal one? Are there expectations of each of you? Are there roles and responsibilities?

In reality, all relationships have contracts, some very formal, some not. BDSM relationships tend to be a bit more mindful of the nature of contracts, so I think there tends to be more thought and discussion on them.

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/10/2004 1:41:43 PM   
darkinshadows


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quote:


In reality, all relationships have contracts, some very formal, some not.



Angel must agree with You here. (yikes) All relationships contain some type of 'contract', whether written or verbal, makes no difference.

However the majority (but not all) Master/slave contracts end the moment the slave surrenders to the Dominant. Because at that moment, the slaves will becomes the Masters Will (becomes His, becomes part of Him, become One)... but a contract is a verbal or written agreement between two or more entities.

N.B please understand I am speaking specifically about a long term open ended relationship, not a short term/scene only/ temporary contract.

Just a personal thought


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/10/2004 2:06:47 PM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WayHome

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett

quote:

ORIGINAL: January

quote:

People who want to be owned are slaves, people who want to serve without being owned are servants, people who want to be forced are subs and people who want to experience pain as pleasure are masochists.


Can't you just call a person who wants to be owned a table or a chair?


That would be an objectionist.


I object!
How dare you coopt this label from Real Obectionists

(OK, I'm not nearly as funny as Estring)


You should probably quit hanging around here. It's making you talk funny.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to WayHome)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/10/2004 10:17:14 PM   
MrThorns


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Taggard,

You are absolutely correct, although I have never seen it as a contract...more like an understanding.

When I think "Contract" I imagine a long, drawn-out, lawyeresque-worded document that clearly states everything you need to know by hiding it deeply in page 233, paragraph 4, subparagraph 2, footnote iii. ipso facto ad nauseum.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/11/2004 1:20:58 AM   
QnofH3arts


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Being unable to work for several days has placed entirely too much time at my disposal. I sat here tonight reading each and every post on this thread. Rather than responding to each post that touched a cord in me, though, I will instead respond to the original query, based upon thoughts inspired by the rest of the posts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

I have been following the threads on 'contracts'. And I wished to ask people opinions on them. I have seen what people know about them, and all the legalities... but I am more interested in what people actually think about them. I have a really hard time trying to work out why slaves would want or even be allowed a contract?... To Me one seems to nulify the other? Contracts between Dominants who have bought and sold slaves(consensually) make some kind of sense (to me), But not between a slave and Dominant.

I do not wish to make a judgement... this is just my own personal view and I really would be interested in hearing from others and discussing it.


You can only do what works for you. You form that basis of behaviors/requirements/needs upon your judgement of others. We are all "guilty" of judging. It is the only way we CAN determine what is best for ourselves. You can say/believe "I do not need/want/desire a contract with a Dominant because I am a slave," and you can believe you do not have one, written, verbal or otherwise. However, the reality is that there is always an "agreement" - (read "contract") because you have thought or said it doesn't exist in your relationship. The reality is that you CAN walk away, you CAN say no, you CAN and DO make choices even when you supposedly give up your right to make choices. You might not like the consequences of reality's safewords and escape clauses, but then, you chose not to have a contract that allowed you gentler caveats. How's that for a conundrum?

Another perspective on the Dominant/slave contract: Before you sign it, you may have a slave mentality, but you are slave to no one but your own desires. Upon placing your signature on that bottom line, you commit yourself to an hour, a week, or a lifetime of enslavement to another's desires. It's all in the wording. A contract does not have to allow you safewords, escape clauses or other wording that would allow you to feel any measure of control. It may simply state that upon the signing of said contract, you surrender yourself. But be aware, as the above paragraph states, the reality is that you will always have safewords and escape clauses.

How many of us can live without the intrusion of reality? How many of us are independently wealthy to the point where we can own our own country, make our own laws and create our own reality? So much of WIITWD is based upon fantasy that I think sometimes people do lose sight of the real world. If you tell yourself that once you surrender yourself to a Dominant that you no longer have the right to make choices, then you are not living in the real world. However, in my experience, I have found people who live this lifestyle to be more intelligent and analytical than average and perhaps some simply seek the right words to make the their fantasy exist WITHIN reality. It's all semantics. Perhaps if some could stop thinking so much and simply BE, contentment might come a little easier.

My own personal preference: I prefer inspiration over and above contracts. Yet, I would not attempt to inspire someone's submission to Me without communication first, which is, of course, an implied contract. When I take on the responsibility of one who displays the nature of a slave, I am more enchanted by their responses to My dominance of them than I would be by their compliance with the wording of a written contract. To enthrall someone is so much more fulfilling to Me than to simply have someone fall to their knees at My feet because I demanded it in a contract. And, if I am unable to inspire their submission, to enthrall them, have I failed? Perhaps. Or perhaps the fit was not right between us and nothing I could have done would have worked, including the use of a formal written contract. That's just Me, though. I enjoy the challenge. Your mileage may vary.

And, by the by, I do prefer the term "thrall" to "slave". Since semantics has been such a strong force in this thread, I'll give Merriam-Webster's definitions:

Main Entry: thrall
Pronunciation: 'throl
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English thral, from Old English thræl, from Old Norse thræll
1 a : a servant slave : BONDMAN; also : SERF b : a person in moral or mental servitude
2 a : a state of servitude or submission <in thrall to his emotions> b : a state of complete absorption <mountains could hold me in thrall with a subtle attraction of their own -- Elyne Mitchell>
- thrall adjective
- thrall·dom or thral·dom /'throl-d&m/ noun

Main Entry: en·thrall
Variant(s): or en·thral /in-'throl, en-/
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): en·thralled; en·thrall·ing
Etymology: Middle English
1 : to hold in or reduce to slavery
2 : to hold spellbound : CHARM
- en·thrall·ment /-'throl-m&nt/ noun

Laura, Ms Laura, Queen, Mistress, Madame, Goddess or whatever else I might *inspire* you to call Me,
(just don't call Me late for dinner!)

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/11/2004 4:08:26 AM   
MzBerlin


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
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COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

Mounts up on My slave drawn chariot, cracks the firey 50-foot bullwhip and beckons my little slave-bitches to sally forth and carry My L/loftiness off through the very gates of Hell and into the D/dark A/abyss of My study so that I shalt start D/drafting said contract...or rather Command My dear little slave biotches to do it for M/me...

So it is W/written...

So shall it be done!

~LordMasterTyrantofA/allIsurvey Thorns



**RUNS SCREAMING FROM THE ROOM AFTER VIEWING ALL THE CRAZEEE CAPS**

A/as A/always-
B/berlin

_____________________________

new pictures!! www.ropexpert.com
also- you can catch me on www.ksexradio.com every tuesday. I co-host Baadmasters' Dungeon!!

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/11/2004 5:44:21 AM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

**RUNS SCREAMING FROM THE ROOM AFTER VIEWING ALL THE CRAZEEE CAPS**


Im thinking "hard limit"

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MzBerlin)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/11/2004 6:24:03 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
When I think "Contract" I imagine a long, drawn-out, lawyeresque-worded document that clearly states everything you need to know by hiding it deeply in page 233, paragraph 4, subparagraph 2, footnote iii. ipso facto ad nauseum.


Quit it, you are making it hard for this paperwork fetishist to concentrate at work!

*wink*

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/11/2004 6:28:01 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QnofH3arts

Being unable to work for several days has placed entirely too much time at my disposal.


Whatever malady that kept you from working was clearly a blessing for this forum. Let me be amongst the first to welcome you to CollarMe, and I hope we can expect many more posts from you.

Guys, I think we have a keeper. *wink*

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to QnofH3arts)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/11/2004 7:00:35 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

And, by the by, I do prefer the term "thrall" to "slave". Since semantics has been such a strong force in this thread, I'll give Merriam-Webster's definitions:


Personally I absolutely love the sound of the word 'thrall' the way it runs and dances from ones tongue is fantastic (sorry, I have a sound fetish...giggles)... but I dislike how it looks as a word...*laughs at herself*... yet I thought about this now and realised how much I LOVE the word 'slave'... its a beautiful written word (IMO)... yet verbally it does nothing for me... lol... yikes... now I am digressing... (considers another thread)

Thank You for answering Angels simple thread... yikes... I didnt think it would go on quite as deep as it has... I am definiately studying your words and thoughts closely Ms Laura(hoping that was ok to call such)... they have caused this open Mind to take in much and I wish you many blessings for that.

Peace upon Your Journey


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to QnofH3arts)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 8/11/2004 7:07:21 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QnofH3arts
And, by the by, I do prefer the term "thrall" to "slave". Since semantics has been such a strong force in this thread, I'll give Merriam-Webster's definitions:


I posted something similar in another thread here yesterday (I don't remember where).

I love the idea of being "enthralled" rather than "enslaved". Enthralled brings up the imagery that I couldn't help but be swept into being owned by that person.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to QnofH3arts)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/14/2007 5:14:11 PM   
SlaveSubtoserve


Posts: 282
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deannalynn

Warm Greetings Lady Beckett,

I would assume I am the girl that Master Leonidas is speaking about.


Its a catch 22 situation really. I wouldnt submit my will or surrender to a man I didnt trust, who didnt have similiar values , morals and ethics. Its all about trust. I feel that I am not controlling the relationship by telling him what he is allowed to do with me. My purpose is to please him. Its really finding harmony with someone so the needs of the slave are met while serving his pleasure

Once one has crossed the line and truly surrendered their will to another, there is no turning back. There are positives and negatives to everything and every situation, this is just one I am most comfortable in. I dont think being a slave has anything to do with low self esteem, being a doormat, or being abused...its just a different type of relationship.


wishing you well,

deanna



.......so well and exquisitely said!

(in reply to deannalynn)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/20/2007 5:42:05 PM   
ocilla


Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
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Great stuff - there is a newer thread on contracts there benefits and shortcomings and a search for examples, go bys and sample rules and contracts that is also quite interesting.

_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder


It takes a kinky village...

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/20/2007 6:17:30 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
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From: Maui
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ever do paper machet? you start with a balloon, and use paper soaked in glue in small strips to lie over it and eventually it solidifies over the balloon, and you can then pop the balloon.

sort f the same thing with wanting a contract dark, it provides a framework for the dominant and the submissive to shape the submission, eventually it solidifies, and there is a point, which is a very sexy point, of the relationship where either the dom or the sub realizes they can pop the balloon.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/20/2007 7:19:36 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
I can see how this would be an oxymoron, property cannot agree to a contract to be property, but that is WIITWD.

I am not a slave and I still do not want a contract. I prefer that he decides where the relationship goes. I prefer that there is no papertrail I suppose. I do not like lists of rules, and I do not like contracts that stipulate how I will submit and how he will dominate... he doesn't like them either.

When we first started talking he expressed that he would ask for consent every step of the way before we embarked on new paths together... giving our relationship liquidity. Now, over a year later, he does not ask for consent anymore, because I have given blanket consent... so a contract makes little sense to me.

For other people, if it works for them, that is all that matters.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Contracts(AGAIN*LOL*) - 6/21/2007 11:11:47 PM   
ocilla


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Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
Nice very nice description.
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigressever do paper machet? you start with a balloon, and use paper soaked in glue in small strips to lie over it and eventually it solidifies over the balloon, and you can then pop the balloon.
sort f the same thing with wanting a contract dark, it provides a framework for the dominant and the submissive to shape the submission, eventually it solidifies, and there is a point, which is a very sexy point, of the relationship where either the dom or the sub realizes they can pop the balloon.


_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder


It takes a kinky village...

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 100
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