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What do you consider the difference between a sub and a... - 11/21/2008 12:08:33 PM   
aerynstark


Posts: 6
Joined: 6/1/2008
Status: offline 		I had a situation where i was in a slave situation...and it was not for me....What do most people consider the difference between a sub and a slave?
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 12:09:56 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
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Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_2277242/tm.htm
there you go :)

(in reply to aerynstark)
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 12:13:14 PM   
bound4more


Posts: 128
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline 		Simply - whatever each individual believes it to be.

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 12:13:52 PM   
justgemmie


Posts: 246
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		hello aerynstark - welcome the Boards.  as this is your 5th post, i am going to assume that you are new here and not quite sure of all the ins and outs.

in the upper right hand corner is a "search function".  if you go there and type sub v. slave or "differences between subs and slaves" and etc., you'll see that there have been many many posts on that subject.  that way, you can read a lot of different views that include folks not here any longer, or folks that won't want to post here simply because this is a relatively common question and they've answered it a bunch of times.

not being snarky! promise     just wanted to perhaps help a little.

gemmie

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(in reply to aerynstark)
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 12:22:26 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Hi aeryn,

The problem with the question you've posed, is that it's one of the longest running debates in the (online) bdsm community.  It's raged for hundreds if not thousands of pages of often bitter 'my way is right, your way is wrong' contention.

To address your particular statement; are you certain it was the situation you weren't happy with, and not the specific dominant?

I'm of the opinion that anyone can be made a slave.  The question isn't if they can be, but rather if they should be.  Consensual slavery isn't a condition that many people would enjoy or thrive within; thus the question isn't really "what's the difference between a sub vs a slave" but rather "what sort of relationship do you hope to share with your partner(s)?"

Regards,

Stephan


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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 12:31:05 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Yup, I completely agree with the previous posters.

You're going to get as many answers to this question as people who respond.  I could offer up my viewpoints, but they aren't really applicable to you or anyone else but myself and my wife.

My advice would be rather than focusing on roles which are, by their very nature, fictional, you should instead focus on what you want in a relationship.  Who cares what subs or slaves or pineapples are?  What matters is what YOU are.  You might reword your thoughts (inside your own head I mean) to be somethign like the following:

I had a previous relationship which didnt' work out well for me because x, y, z.

The fact that one or both of you put the "slave" label on it is meaningless.

If you want a GROSS oversimplification for the sake of short-hand communication with a stranger, if you're OK with never saying "no" to your partner, that's more on the slave side.  If that concept makes you cringe inside, go with sub.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 1:06:47 PM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aerynstark

I had a situation where i was in a slave situation...and it was not for me....What do most people consider the difference between a sub and a slave?


This is the difference for me and my household -- you should not adapt these definitions unless you find they really fit in your world view.

A submissive is a time limited situation. I do not believe that a person can be submissive all the time therefore if you are a submissive you are dealing with short term dynamics that may last a few days. The focus is on giving your power to another and recognizing the authority of another for that time period.

A slave is timeless situation. You don't stop being someone's slave unless the relationship ends. I also think that one can be either submissive or not and be a slave. An excellent slave often isn't very submissive especially to an outside viewer but the focus is on making the owner's life better through their service whether it is at that moment, that day, that week, or years down the road.

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 1:15:22 PM   
UmbraDomina


Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline 		*note* this is strictly my own personal opinion based on my relationships, not meant to be a guide or rules for anyone else.

A submissive (to me) is someone who is or has a desire to be submissive to another, or a submissive personality or chooses a submissive role within a relationship.

A slave (to me) is someone who has a submissive desire and has entered into a relationship with a dominant personality and has grown in the relationship to a degree of trust and communication, that they feel comfortable giving 100% of their trust to the dominant person. They trust that the dominant partner will not harm them so they offer up their limits, or safeword (if they had them), as no longer needed, they have complete and unwavering trust in their dominant partner so they offer up their bodies and soul as property to the dominant partner.


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~~ And I will show you something different from either your shadow at morning striding behind you Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust..... T.S. Elliot ~~

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 2:04:19 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		I'm going to offer up my standard fare on this. Submissive is a state of being -- it is an adjective that describes a state of mind. The label put on submission is exactly what the person doing the labeling wants it to be... nothing less, nothing more. Two people, living the exact same life and doing the exact same things may be termed under two different labels... one's keeper may use 'submissive', the other may use 'slave'... but it doesn't make a single bit of difference in terms of how those people are living.

Labels are there for our convenience, not the other way around. It sounds to me like what you experienced was a situation that didn't work for you... regardless of what you were called, the situation and way of life was a poor fit. It wouldn't have been any better if the keeper'd called you a 'submissive' instead of a 'slave'... in the same way, when you're looking for the next situation, focus on the way you want to live... don't worry about the labels, because if the way of life fits, the label will become irrelevant.


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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to UmbraDomina)
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 2:46:13 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aerynstark

I had a situation where i was in a slave situation...and it was not for me....What do most people consider the difference between a sub and a slave?


What "most people" consider is very diverse and is very subjective to each individual's perspective.  The way i look at it is You define yourself and then choose the label that most closely matches your definition of who you are. 
 
i am curious about what you consider a "slave situation" to be.  Perhaps that particular situation wasn't for you but, that doesn't necessarily mean that another "slave situation" might not be just right for you.
 
Any way, if you're interested in what i have had to say on this subject, you can find my thoughts and opinions on the following links.

SLAVES VS SUBS - 8/25/2007   

Why are you a "slave" and not "sub"... - 7/17/2008    

sub vs slave - 3/22/2007

joy
Master David's erotic-domestic slave

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 4:12:43 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		"a slave situation" does not equal "all slave situations"

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 6:46:28 PM   
scottjk


Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Dunno why it has to be so complicated....

A sub can say no anytime she likes. A slave wants to give up that right.  (Shrugs)

I know it seems simplistic, but it's a solid foundation to start from. Anything else seems to be decoration.

Once again, labels are about establishing common ground. Declaring that it can be anything  you want implies common ground is impossible.

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 7:27:51 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

Dunno why it has to be so complicated....

A sub can say no anytime she likes. A slave wants to give up that right.  (Shrugs)


I understand that your own definitions only have to make sense to you.  Having said that... what in the world does this mean?

quote:


I know it seems simplistic, but it's a solid foundation to start from. Anything else seems to be decoration.


I shudder to think of what a poor foundation would look like.

quote:


Once again, labels are about establishing common ground. Declaring that it can be anything  you want implies common ground is impossible.


If the establishment of common ground was your intention, the result has fallen significantly short of that objective.
 
John

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(in reply to scottjk)
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 7:43:26 PM   
scottjk


Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

Dunno why it has to be so complicated....

A sub can say no anytime she likes. A slave wants to give up that right.  (Shrugs)


I understand that your own definitions only have to make sense to you.  Having said that... what in the world does this mean?

quote:


I know it seems simplistic, but it's a solid foundation to start from. Anything else seems to be decoration.


I shudder to think of what a poor foundation would look like.

quote:


Once again, labels are about establishing common ground. Declaring that it can be anything  you want implies common ground is impossible.


If the establishment of common ground was your intention, the result has fallen significantly short of that objective.
 
John


I'll have to admit, I was a bit hasty in my last statement, it should have read: Once again, labels are about establishing common ground for communication. Declaring that it can be anything you want implies that common ground for communication is impossible.

I wonder if it's possible to continue to respond to this without being abusive?

As for the rest? I'm certain that the ones that I spoke to understand where I'm coming from.

Why do I get the feeling that people are trying to make more out of this than there needs to be? Is it really all that neccessary, or just boredom?

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/21/2008 7:57:07 PM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		Spelling. Nothing more nothing less, since the verbiage varies by person who defines it. 

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/22/2008 1:09:07 AM   
babygirlkitten


Posts: 66
Joined: 10/25/2008
From: Manhattan
Status: offline 		Oh gosh. I think that everyone has their own personal definition of "slave" and "submissive," and everyone has their own personal identity that may or may not fit in to one of the two.
To be brief, I personally think of a submissive as someone (comparitively) more autonomous, whereas a slave is soemone who is more likely to need a TPE relationship.

(in reply to VampiresLair)
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/22/2008 2:44:04 AM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline 		    A sub is an oblong sandwich. A slave is the one you get to make it for you. 

   I think that ultimately when it comes to BDSM, it's all just various ways of describing consensual dominance and submission. We borrow terms like "slavery" and "ownership" because they approximate a situation in some sense, even though they aren't literally true.

   The problem with these approximations is that they vary enormously person to person to the point of being useless when looking for a common definition.

    Feel free to define the difference between sub and slave how you like - nearly everyone else does.
 

(in reply to babygirlkitten)
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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/22/2008 3:24:07 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		It doesn’t take semantic word games or great debate to find the line used to define slave vs submissive by the BDSM community at large . . . except here in the special world of collarme where the topic will meet with endless debate. 

Forces will gather on opposing sides of the fence and the “not-so-subbies” and the “Masters of all knowledge” will claim that those whom “box in” the definitions are purveyors of “one true way”.   Well, I just want to say “fuck you” in advance to all the assholes that screw with the noobs heads here on collarme.  Words have meanings and there is as definable a difference between a sub and a slave as there is between a male or a female.  Sure, there is some overlap but the essence of the meanings are not blurred and focusing on semantic word games does not help define the term for someone who asks for help in all earnest.  I am sure that someone in their 5th post is not prepared to believe that an entire BDSM community is so infantile, they do not yet know what a sub or a slave is.   

With that in mind, and making note of all the bullshit that will follow, I offer the OP my simple writings on the topic as derived from many round table discussions with leaders of our community whom were looking to define the term with universal truths.
~~~~~~~~~~~
A submissive takes the subordinate position in a D/s relationship. They do not have to surrender all control. 

Additionally: The degree of control is negotiated by mutual agreement.  The rewards often include the pleasures of service and/or control.  Struggle or suffering is optional.
~~~~~~~~~~~
A slave, contrary to common belief, does not have to be a submissive.  However, they have to surrender control in a TPE. 

Additionally:  Often a slave will struggle to do that which is not pleasurable.  It is fulfilling this service that brings reward to a slave, suffering isn't optional.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 11/22/2008 3:27:21 AM >

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/22/2008 4:37:55 AM   
MRandme


Posts: 661
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline 		For me, the difference is in the focus... a sub can focus on their own pleasure, saying "no, i dont' want to do that" and "i must have this". A slave's focus is on the Master/Mistress and what He or She desires instead, and generally may not refuse to do something.

my Master sees these things as a spectrum:

Mastery---- Dominant -------Switch -------- submissive -------- slave

A person may fall anywhere along that spectrum and the only difference is in degree. Also, while i am His slave, with another Man i may not be, but further to the left, being submissive but not a slave. i cannot see myself further left than that, though.

YMMV of course


g

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RE: What do you consider the difference between a sub a... - 11/22/2008 9:52:12 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		While yes this question has been asked and answered and never given an end to, we have new people on the boards and each will also have a definition. What was true yesterday may not be today and this is why I don't mind revisiting common topics..we all gown and advance, revise and continue to redefine throughout our lives. What I said 5 years ago may not apply to me today...

So...short answer to me as to the difference between a submissive and a slave?
A Slave may not be submissive and a submissive may not be a slave. One is a state of being, the other a personality trait. If you are submissive in nature or submissive sexually that is what you are and yes you can be submissive only in the bedroom sexually. That doesn't make you a slave it simply makes you a submissive.

I on the other hand am a slave, Master owns me to the extent that we both have agreed to since it is illegal to own slaves in the US.  I am not however a submissive, can play one barely on TV, but am far too rebellious , an Alpha female as well as a Sadist in my own right,  to ever be considered submissive. As Master puts it at times..Owning me is kind of like owning a high spirited wild horse, you own it, you even have it's respect and love, but you never know from one day to the next whether it is going to be a smooth ride or your gonna have to hang on for dear life. It will go in the direction you want but it may be an interesting time getting there.

poenkitten

(in reply to aerynstark)
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