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RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 10:39:02 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		SirKenin makes a great point which I almost added to my previous post. There are limits to how much I will do for someone before I decide they aren't worth the hassle.

I am not her shrink, I am not her savior, I am not nice like Jesus, I am not eternally patient, I am not all knowing, I am not exceptionally forgiving, etc etc etc...



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"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 10:46:33 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Deleted... was written out of anger.. and total frustration over such bullshit

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/21/2006 10:50:02 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 10:46:59 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

SirKenin makes a great point which I almost added to my previous post. There are limits to how much I will do for someone before I decide they aren't worth the hassle.

I am not her shrink, I am not her savior, I am not nice like Jesus, I am not eternally patient, I am not all knowing, I am not exceptionally forgiving, etc etc etc...




Now this seems entirely reasonable. i don't think anyone here was asking for a shrink or a savior, nor was my Master MY shrink. The discussion was prompted when there were remarks about tossing someone out at first signs of jealousy.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 10:50:50 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		True: i believe he is talking about those cases in which the effort put in is not warranting results. Some girls don't necessarily WANT to give up their jealousies. Some are extreme about it. i took his statement to be talking about those. If i refused to work through my own issues, my Master would have deemed me unworkable. But i WANTED to work through them, and i wasn't extreme about them, so that was the difference................i think.

It boils down to what i keep saying: Different preferences for different Dominants: Some want ready-made, some want to rebuild someone.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 10:52:28 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		yeah i know.. that's why i deleted it.. thanks Owned...

oh yeah... and thanks.. Master is reading about your microwave zapps now!... paybacks a bitch baby!.. lmao

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 11:02:54 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Well I agree at the first sign would be unfair. But at what point does someone's personal issues become their sole problem again? When can a dominant man consider himself "off the hook" as it were?

I usually like to think an issue can be resolved the first couple of times it comes up. If it can't, I don't like to talk about it any more, the other person is on their own and I may start considering a change in the status of the relationship.

A long time ago I dated a woman that asked me for advice about some family problems. I gave her my advice and some possible solutions to her problems. Sometime later she raised the exact same issues again. I asked her if she had implemented any of my suggestions - she had not. We talked some more and I gave her very nearly the exact same solutions to her problems as before. Sometime later she wanted to talk about her family problems again and so I asked her if she had done anything I had previously suggested. She had not so I told her the subject was off limits from then on. She was very annoyed and my refusal to discuss her repeating family dramas was itself the subject of a huge blowup between us. Shortly thereafter that relationship ended by mutual dissatisfaction.

Was I unreasonable?

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 11:09:22 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

Well I agree at the first sign would be unfair. But at what point does someone's personal issues become their sole problem again? When can a dominant man consider himself "off the hook" as it were?

I usually like to think an issue can be resolved the first couple of times it comes up. If it can't, I don't like to talk about it any more, the other person is on their own and I may start considering a change in the status of the relationship.

A long time ago I dated a woman that asked me for advice about some family problems. I gave her my advice and some possible solutions to her problems. Sometime later she raised the exact same issues again. I asked her if she had implemented any of my suggestions - she had not. We talked some more and I gave her very nearly the exact same solutions to her problems as before. Sometime later she wanted to talk about her family problems again and so I asked her if she had done anything I had previously suggested. She had not so I told her the subject was off limits from then on. She was very annoyed and my refusal to discuss her repeating family dramas was itself the subject of a huge blowup between us. Shortly thereafter that relationship ended by mutual dissatisfaction.

Was I unreasonable?


Unreasonable is subjective. Knowing where i have come from, i realize it takes a lot of effort and time to change one's emotional outlook and behavior. i used to think "Hey - i told you what to do, now go do it and if you don't, then you must not want it." i have come to find it's not always so simple. Sometimes it takes a lot of years and effort to collect all that baggage, it doesn't go away at the snap of a finger.

LOL i am reminded of the first time my Master said "Get over it." i smiled and snapped my fingers and said "Whoooaaa don't i feel better now!"

Ahem. i don't recommend that.

With me, it takes me time to mull and chew on new concepts. Master calls it my "processing time." It took over a year to get over my jealousy hang up. That didn't mean i was grilling him all the time - that would have been completely unacceptable and NOT tolerated. But i would journal how i felt deep inside, and he would tell me he understood i felt that way, but it was not appropriate. What he did instead, was to NOT focus on the jealousy, rather create a bond so strong in me that i came to want ANYTHING for him, including his pleasure with others. The focus was on my service and dedication...on growing my devotion and adoration. With that comes a desire to want whatever makes him happy. The jealousy dissolved on its own.


(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 11:10:21 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

Well I agree at the first sign would be unfair. But at what point does someone's personal issues become their sole problem again? When can a dominant man consider himself "off the hook" as it were?

I usually like to think an issue can be resolved the first couple of times it comes up. If it can't, I don't like to talk about it any more, the other person is on their own and I may start considering a change in the status of the relationship.

A long time ago I dated a woman that asked me for advice about some family problems. I gave her my advice and some possible solutions to her problems. Sometime later she raised the exact same issues again. I asked her if she had implemented any of my suggestions - she had not. We talked some more and I gave her very nearly the exact same solutions to her problems as before. Sometime later she wanted to talk about her family problems again and so I asked her if she had done anything I had previously suggested. She had not so I told her the subject was off limits from then on. She was very annoyed and my refusal to discuss her repeating family dramas was itself the subject of a huge blowup between us. Shortly thereafter that relationship ended by mutual dissatisfaction.

Was I unreasonable?


No Chaingang... because at leasst you.... according to you... TRIED.

There's a difference there. No DOm or sub should have to endour anything that makes them unhappy.... annoyed... etc.. for any leangth of time.. if it's come down to the point.. it's just not going to work itself out . No matter how much work you give it... as long as you know you did your best.. that's all that counts then.

It's the ones that DON"T try... don't want to deal with.. knowing that it's there... and just not giving a damn.. because they feel they don't have to.. or should not have too.... all it is.. is wanting your cake... and eating it too.

In order to have the delicious cake to eat...... one must be prepared to make it to their liking... work at it... then there are those.. that prefer already made.. store bought.. no work involved.. right off the shelf.. it's exactly how they want it.. less work involved.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 11:25:33 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		I like BF Skinner's theories and often use them in dealing with people. I don't like to encourage certain behaviors via either positive or negative reinforcement so I just make some things off limits if I am in control of the relationship.

There's a whole world of people that want to sit around and cry in their own piss and would actually prefer it if you watched them do it too. I really don't have time for people like that. I am interested in real solutions to real problems, not some BS pie in the sky woulda-coulda-shoulda dreamland stuff. Take action or shut the fuck up, really! Strangely enough, most interpersonal problems can resolved with honesty and open lines of communication. And you'd be amazed at how incredibly resistant to these very simple solutions most people actually are.

One of my exs recently mentioned to me how she wasn't "out" to her current boyfriend about her love of pornography. Can you imagine? She is hiding from her man that she loves to watch porn. And she keeps this porn-love secret for fear that he might react negatively.

People are great writers of fiction, they call it their everyday lives.

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 11:33:23 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang


There's a whole world of people that want to sit around and cry in their own piss and would actually prefer it if you watched them do it too. I really don't have time for people like that. I am interested in real solutions to real problems, not some BS pie in the sky woulda-coulda-shoulda dreamland stuff. Take action or shut the fuck up, really! Strangely enough, most interpersonal problems can resolved with honesty and open lines of communication. And you'd be amazed at how incredibly resistant to these very simple solutions most people actually are.



People are great writers of fiction, they call it their everyday lives.


Actually... this woudn't surprise me one bit chaingang... pity too... so much fun to be had out there...

I sure as in hell like the take action or shut the fuck up attitude there... as long as the person ... that has the issue of jealousy.. is actually trying to deal with it.. work it out.. get over it... WTFG there!!!

The ones that sit there.. boo hoo... poor little ole me... now that's that headcase SirKenin.. I now think.. was refering too.. though I think headcase was too harsh an example.. I know now what he was saying too...



_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 11:49:11 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

Since, I’m on this bent of saying the antithesis of the PC posts on this thread, I’ll continue from a male Dom's view if you will bear with me. Many subs want a jealous Dom who doesn’t allow them to talk to other guys and so on. Some Doms will not allow their subs to have eye contact with other Doms and other things like that. Some subs desire and expect to be questioned about their conversations, spied on and have their privacy taken away. Reality.

Would I do it? In a very mild way if anything because it is too tiring and paranoid-like. I would be bored stupid always spying on someone, but I do know there is a type sub that wants this very much.



Thank you ExistentialSteel.

I was wondering when this part was going to pop up...

But now that you answered what SOME subs look for .... as far as a jealous Dom... what about the ones that DON"T want a jealous Dom?


Truesub, of course, I can't give you an easy answer. Needless to say, that would be a strained D/s relationship, but the overriding strength of the relationship will determine the outcome. Sure, a sub could try to talk it out, but that is often seen as making excuses.

I have probably overreacted to somethings in the past, but I've also probably not reacted when I should have. You can't take a specific instance and judge, but you have to view the relationship as a whole and whatever pattern is presenting.


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For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 12:21:59 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

SirKenin makes a great point which I almost added to my previous post. There are limits to how much I will do for someone before I decide they aren't worth the hassle.

I am not her shrink, I am not her savior, I am not nice like Jesus, I am not eternally patient, I am not all knowing, I am not exceptionally forgiving, etc etc etc...




Now this seems entirely reasonable. i don't think anyone here was asking for a shrink or a savior, nor was my Master MY shrink. The discussion was prompted when there were remarks about tossing someone out at first signs of jealousy.


My position is that you do not make such harsh judgements at the first sign of problems. It is a judgement call how long you leave it. If you see progress, then sure, why not? Play it out and see what happens.

If no changes are made in your set timeframe..... BOOT. Out the door they go.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 12:26:41 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

All due respect but you take quite a leap from average jealousy issues which can be worked through vs. "head case." Naturally, everyone is entitle to their own opinions. Maybe you're one of those "ready made slave" types.


To Me, very jealous people are emotionally unstable. Thus, a headcase. And I can lay My claim to fame that I indeed was one in My marriage. I am not proud of it, but that is the truth.

Ok, she gave Me reason to, and after the marriage ended it turned out I was right, but that is besides the point.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 12:44:37 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Chaingang:
quote:

I am not nice like Jesus,


Okay, that got a grin outta me.

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RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 1:46:33 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin




To Me, very jealous people are emotionally unstable. Thus, a headcase.



i guess to me it depends on what degree of jealousy and what they do with it.

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 1:59:09 PM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

i was reading on another thread the topic of jealousy... and was truly saddened to see all the posts that said 'dismiss him/her'... is this typical? if a submissive/slave is jealous they should be tossed aside?

Personally, i do all i can to avoid a situation that could create jealousy, for example Polyamory. But, like any human emotion it can rear its ugly head. So what i need to remember is that my Master has chosen me because i am who He wants. If He decides He wants another, no amount of jealousy will change that. If His heart is with me, then no amount of temptation from another will lead Him too far astray.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 2:16:00 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Ancient Chinese Proverb:
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was. We do not possess anything in this world, least of all other people. We only imagine that we do. Our friends, our lovers, our spouses, even our children are not ours; they belong only to themselves. Possessive and controlling friendships and relationships can be as harmful as neglect.

Modern Jealous Stalker Variant:
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it!

Daffy Duck:

It's mine, you hear me? Mine, all mine! I'm rich! I'm a happy miser!...I'm comfortably well-off...



_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to Submotive)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 2:20:28 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

Ancient Chinese Proverb:
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was. We do not possess anything in this world, least of all other people. We only imagine that we do. Our friends, our lovers, our spouses, even our children are not ours; they belong only to themselves. Possessive and controlling friendships and relationships can be as harmful as neglect.

Modern Jealous Stalker Variant:
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it!

Daffy Duck:

It's mine, you hear me? Mine, all mine! I'm rich! I'm a happy miser!...I'm comfortably well-off...






ROFLMAO........... thank you chaingang... finally... a voice of reason after all.

Daffy was a nice added touch there too.... lmao!!!

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 5:32:06 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

what about trying to find out WHY the person reacted the way they did.. instead of simply saying 'you reacted in a way i find offensive/unfavorable (insert term here)... and therefore you are no longer deemed worthy to be with me.



This has been a rather interesting thread to read.

Everyone has there own subjective ideal of jealousy and what they will tolerate. As long as the behaviors are within a tolerant level, I believe anyone will attempt work with a partner to deal with apparent jealousy issues. Hopefully, a person that has jealousy issues is with a very tolerant person otherwise they will likely see them dismissed from the relationship.

Angelic, I understand from this thread that you have been cast aside in a relationship due to your jealousy issues. But, I ask, when should he draw the line. By your standards or his? Should he find why you reacted the way you did because you feel he should, what about his Choice in the matter?

So he ended the relationship without consideration of your motivation to your jealousy behaviors. It could very well be that your motivations and behaviors was justified, in that case your better without him! It very well could be your motivations and behaviors were unjustified and he did what was best for him. Either way, you have to look at yourself and understand what went wrong. What was wrong with the relationship? What mistakes did you make. If there was jealousy issues... then you have to take serious look at these issues. You can make alot of progress of working on these issues outside of a relationship. But, until you in a relationship, you will never know it the issues are progressed to a point that you can maintain a functional relationship! This leaves me with the final point. PROGRESSION!. Any issue, jealousy, fear, insecurties, self-esteem whatever it is, a person needs to progress in fixing the problems associated with the issue. The pace of progression is rather subjective, but I agree with what is said in other posts. Sitting and whining about the issues is not much good for anyone, especially with a person with the issue. Not all things will work immediately, but if effort is being applied consistently, progression to resolution will occur!





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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Jealousy - 2/21/2006 6:16:12 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Angelic, I understand from this thread that you have been cast aside in a relationship due to your jealousy issues. But, I ask, when should he draw the line. By your standards or his? Should he find why you reacted the way you did because you feel he should, what about his Choice in the matter?


ok wait!!!! ROLFMAO i wasn't 'tossed' aside because of my jealousy issues!! my 'x' was a liar and cheat... ok not going into a lot of detail (i did that about 6 months ago on another thread)...i merely said i had a jealous personality and the 'x' among MANY other things fed off that...

Again, i started this thread because another was being tossed aside in another thread!!

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 120
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