RE: The Thrill of the Hunt

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Venatrix -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/26/2009 6:01:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer lol. But you're not a nilla..^^^^^ Some of me is. All of me is likely to act that way, too - till I meet 'Her' with a huge capital 'H'. When I do, she won't get a challenge from me, but she will get a frigging good dance. [;)] Well, nothing wrong with that, up to a point. But I think most dominas need to see some evidence of submission as things progress, and not just submission to kink. For example, even though my treasured companion (no, not the cat) and I started out as the most vanilla of friends, there was evidence quite early on that he wanted to please me. And that's why he's become my treasured companion. Had I had no inkling of that desire, we'd mostly likely still be only friends.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/26/2009 8:42:43 PM)
Had I had no inkling of that desire, we'd mostly likely still be only friends. Of course! In flirting (which is what this is), you have to make sure that some such inkling has penetrated home to your 'target'.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/26/2009 8:46:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Lady Hib, I've missed you.

Curiousrestricti -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 5:15:17 AM)
I find this attitude refreshing personally and i find the whole grovelling from the outset attitude of alot of male subs seems to ruin the value of it. Dont get me wrong i am a sub and i feel the need to please people etc. The idea of being "forced" into activites a stright man might be uncomfortable with like strapon etc much more of a turn on than just rolling over and taking it which just seems unatural to me.

Venatrix -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 7:07:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Curiousrestricti I find this attitude refreshing personally and i find the whole grovelling from the outset attitude of alot of male subs seems to ruin the value of it. Dont get me wrong i am a sub and i feel the need to please people etc. The idea of being "forced" into activites a stright man might be uncomfortable with like strapon etc much more of a turn on than just rolling over and taking it which just seems unatural to me. Again, this is all fine up to a point, especially if it's only part of the occasional playtime scenario and it's something the domina wants to do. But, the overall problem with what you've described here is that you want your kink pandered to by the woman; d/s doesn't exactly work that way. Most dominant women don't want to have to "fight" the sub continually by forcing him to do things. We want someone who makes our life easier, not harder. So, it isn't so much a question of grovelling at the beginning, which I think is a turn-off for most femdoms, but rather a question of so many guys being willing (demanding, in some cases) to engage in the wildest kink imaginable without offering any service in return. Sure, most femdoms enjoy kink, but we enjoy more someone who shows us he cares, however the woman defines that. It's wonderful to find someone who isn't initially all about kink, but if someone keeps fighting you on what you want, why be with him? I don't think the OP was referring to a situation like that, but rather finding someone who isn't so wrapped up in his kink that any femdom will do, hence her reference to 'captivation', which I completely understand and agree with.

DesFIP -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 7:30:09 AM)
If all you're into is the hunt and helping them discover this life, then how on earth can you ever hope to have a lasting relationship? Whether you introduce him to all these ideas, or he reads about it online, eventually he will have experience. And then what? You drop him to chase some other newby. I hope you tell him first off that you don't have relationships so he shouldn't get emotionally involved.

Curiousrestricti -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 9:21:26 AM)
Yes i agree I was stating what i enjoy but i didnt say I go around demanding kink my way. When actually going abouts looking for a relationship i would look for someone somewhat compatible in the first place and eventually bend to their will, i also wouldnt find it as forfilling if i was "topping from the bottom".

AAkasha -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 9:33:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP If all you're into is the hunt and helping them discover this life, then how on earth can you ever hope to have a lasting relationship? Whether you introduce him to all these ideas, or he reads about it online, eventually he will have experience. And then what? You drop him to chase some other newby. I hope you tell him first off that you don't have relationships so he shouldn't get emotionally involved. It's not quite as harsh as that, but there is some truth to what you say. But it's the same challenges all relationships have: how do you keep your sex/romantic/bdsm life fresh and exciting with your primary partner after 5, 10, 15 or 20 years or more? While my primary partner can and will do anything for me when it comes to making me happy, he cannot be a totally unsuspecting, fresh, new prey for me - ever. He knows me inside and out, he knows me better than I know myself. What can he offer? Well, it's something better than the thrill of the hunt, it's stability and a complete understanding of me as a whole person. I never used to buy into the whole soul mate thing, but from the moment I met him I knew that he was far more intoxicating to me than 100 "virgins", to use an example. So yes, at times, I yearn for that lustful intoxicating feeling that comes from slowly peeling the layers from a total novice who is totally infatuated (in a good way) with what is going on, but scared as hell at the same time. But just as people, when they get older, long for the days of new love, the realities of life are that you don't just get the smorgasbord of fetish and hedonism forever; In a heartbeat, I'll take true love. There are also ways to capture that feeling without engaging in a full blown romantic relationship. When I was single and happily so, I was dominating "casually" lots of men - and it was awesome. I can still enjoy the same process of seduction as long as all parties are aware of my marital status, and that I am not going down any romantic path. It pretty much takes "vanilla" men off the table, though. Akasha

PeonForHer -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 9:47:54 AM)
. . . but rather a question of so many guys being willing (demanding, in some cases) to engage in the wildest kink imaginable without offering any service in return . . . What do you mean by 'in return', V? In return for her engaging in a kink with him? One might ask: 'what should she do for him, in return for his engaging in a kink that she wants to do?'

AAkasha -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 9:58:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Curiousrestricti I find this attitude refreshing personally and i find the whole grovelling from the outset attitude of alot of male subs seems to ruin the value of it. Dont get me wrong i am a sub and i feel the need to please people etc. The idea of being "forced" into activites a stright man might be uncomfortable with like strapon etc much more of a turn on than just rolling over and taking it which just seems unatural to me. Venatrix already touched on why many femdoms (including me) don't want to "force" a guy, nor do we like the idea that a man comes along and thinks, "Well, I want to be a challenge to her, so I will be a macho asshole." Both of those are huge turns offs. HUGE. I would rather have a submissive with way too many bad habits but willing to work on them than a vanilla/kink-curious guy who believes that if he's a pain in the ass, or fakes resistances because he wants a take down atmosphere, as a method of manipulation. It all seems so unfair, I bet, these unrealistic expectations a woman/femdom has! We want surrender, but we don't want a doormat. We want assertiveness, but we want to take control. We want resistance, but only a certain kind, and it's got to be authentic. What's a sub supposed to do? It's not impossible. Most important rule is to really, really, really understand the woman you are submitting to and what she needs. Akasha

LadyPact -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 10:19:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer What do you mean by 'in return', V? In return for her engaging in a kink with him? One might ask: 'what should she do for him, in return for his engaging in a kink that she wants to do?' I can't answer for Venatrix, but I can give you My perspective on this. Bottoms really aren't that hard to come by. They aren't exactly in limited supply. While some are more expressive than others, there's really not a lot of effort there. The contributions of the bottom in a scene are very minimal. The majority of the effort, skill, etc really is done by the top. If you're dealing with a good one, she's put years into learning, practicing, expanding her skills. In other words, she's already made efforts long before that bottom came along who's biggest contribution is knowing how to get a look of fear in his eyes or how to make yummy little sounds as things are done to him. Quite frankly, that's not that much of a big deal in My opinion. Perhaps you can enlighten Me as to exactly what contribution the bottom is making here, except for the fact that he exists and is receiving? I don't see it as any different as him being replaced with anyone else. Kind of like buses. If you don't ride one, there will be another along in five minutes. Submissives, on the other hand, are another matter. I'm in full agreement with Lady H that it would be great if bottoms had the option to say that is what and who they are, rather than slapping the submissive tag on themselves.

AAkasha -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 10:41:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer What do you mean by 'in return', V? In return for her engaging in a kink with him? One might ask: 'what should she do for him, in return for his engaging in a kink that she wants to do?' I can't answer for Venatrix, but I can give you My perspective on this. Bottoms really aren't that hard to come by. They aren't exactly in limited supply. While some are more expressive than others, there's really not a lot of effort there. The contributions of the bottom in a scene are very minimal. The majority of the effort, skill, etc really is done by the top. If you're dealing with a good one, she's put years into learning, practicing, expanding her skills. In other words, she's already made efforts long before that bottom came along who's biggest contribution is knowing how to get a look of fear in his eyes or how to make yummy little sounds as things are done to him. Quite frankly, that's not that much of a big deal in My opinion. Perhaps you can enlighten Me as to exactly what contribution the bottom is making here, except for the fact that he exists and is receiving? I don't see it as any different as him being replaced with anyone else. Kind of like buses. If you don't ride one, there will be another along in five minutes. Submissives, on the other hand, are another matter. I'm in full agreement with Lady H that it would be great if bottoms had the option to say that is what and who they are, rather than slapping the submissive tag on themselves. Skilled bottoms (to me) are like a lottery ticket. It's a goldmine when I find one. If a bottom just existed to endure and be the recipient, then really you couldn't say that dominating Joe 1 was better than dominating Joe 2, except that Joe 2 painted your kitchen. I think bottoming is a skill. I think it's like making love - some men are good at it, some are bad at it, some are selfish, some are selfless, and others are just inexperienced. Sure, all kinky men will eagerly offer it (just like most men will line up to get laid), but are they any good at it? Is it feasible that you have dominated a man who was SO incredibly giving - chores, massages, you name it, but he was just a really, really bad bottom? Is that possible? I would say absolutely YES. I envision the uber-sub, robotic type (as an example) who says "yes Mistress" every three seconds (for an hour) and constantly interrupts the dominants flow by asking things like, "does this please you? does this please you? does this please you?" -- or just stares at the floor the whole time (protocol you can't break) or adopts a very simpering, worm-like persona (because that's "just who he is when he bottoms") -- No amount of free labor is worth that! Bottoming takes skill. Not just "how much can a man endure" but this is it: His capacity to observe, understand, interpret, and ultimately predict the sadist's pleasure - AND, to understand her hot buttons so he can make the scene as exciting and rewarding as possible for her. It's just like making love. He has to understand what makes her tick, and then be an active participant - not just a crash test dummy - to make sure she's getting all she wants and needs from his bottoming. If you give me 5 men and line them up to endure a flogging, or a cbt scene, or strap on play, I can tell you that I would be able to rank them in capability at bottoming, regardless of their service capabilities. You give those same 5 guys to another femdom and she may rank them differently. You do it with another femdom, and again, different results; however, I would bet you'd see the skilled bottoms ranking toward the top in ALL groups, because they are adopting their bottoming style to what makes the lady tick. Akasha

LadyPact -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 11:22:13 AM)
I think we're coming from vastly different experiences here, Aakasha. In a sense, I'm even a bit surprised at that. I have to wonder if it relies on the fact that we have two different bases to draw on. Some of that could come from the theory that I top males as well as females, but have no interest in topping those who haven't prior expressed a desire to be interested in bottoming, while you come from the opposite view. I'd find it really hard to believe that I've just happened to run across so many "lottery tickets" in life, where you would find them rare. Perhaps I've just been fortunate that I haven't experienced the extremes in your second paragraph. While I find them a bit outrageous, I suppose they could be possible. Not that I haven't ever participated with a bottom that just didn't do it for Me. The thing is I would just move on to the next. It's rare for Me to have a 'bad' S/m experience. Those few times that I do, it's usually in a club setting and there is ample opportunity to just select another bottom. I'm also taking into consideration here that, if I'm going to participate in three or four scenes in a night, if the first one goes off well, I'm already predisposed to easily hitting top space again just because I'm inflicting pain to begin with. This is very similar to what I could say about Myself sexually. If I've orgasmed once, other orgasms in succession aren't that difficult for Me to obtain. If you're basing your theory that bottoming takes skill, how does the bottom apply the same skill with acitivities such as sensory deprivation? Even less than that, if you should choose to bind, gag, and blindfold your bottom, how does this skill come into play? Granted, I'll give you that pain tolerance could fall into this, but if you take away his ability to react, where is the skill then? I do agree somewhat with your last paragraph, but you really did go back and say that it is going to depend on the top. How the top interprets how the bottom reacts. Given those five bottoms, I'm almost certain that you and I would rank them differently because of our different interests.

Venatrix -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 11:34:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer . . . but rather a question of so many guys being willing (demanding, in some cases) to engage in the wildest kink imaginable without offering any service in return . . . What do you mean by 'in return', V? In return for her engaging in a kink with him? One might ask: 'what should she do for him, in return for his engaging in a kink that she wants to do?' I think, P, that you'll find (if you haven't already), that women are rather complicated creatures, and are generally much more multifaceted than most men. It doesn't mean femdoms don't like kink and so need something to persuade us to engage in it, it means that we want kink AND something else. There's a huge amount more to me than BDSM. If it means having to put up with someone's selfish behaviour just to have him 'let' me use my strap-on, I'll do without the playtime. In addition, there's the sheer skewing of the numbers. Why should I put up with someone who is substandard (yes, pun intended), when I can have someone fabulous? Where's the incentive? And I don't know a single femdom who feels otherwise, unless she's doing it for money. In which case, she's still getting something extra.

Venatrix -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 11:47:49 AM)
I wanted to add that, in many cases, vanilla men, even those who are just friends, do little (or even big) things to see a woman happy. Throw kink into the mix, and it often becomes a case of, "Oh, we don't have an official relationship, so I'm not going to do those things yet." So, the irony is that submissive men looking for a potential relationship are often a lot less submissive than vanilla men who are just friends. Go figure.

Curiousrestricti -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 12:09:55 PM)
Perhaps "forced" was to strong a term even with speechmarks around it, I dont want to put up a fight as it were lol. I think i just wanted to point out how groveling subs with pics of themselfs naked bent over etc seem to give off a certian message and seems to ruin the inital tension and thril.At the dating point of meeing people i think submissives/ bottoms should be more like vanilla dating, not all this offering yourselfs it just seems unrealistic. Then again i dont know what it is to be a "proper" submissive.

ElanSubdued -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 12:22:31 PM)
Venatrix, quote: I think, P, that you'll find (if you haven't already), that women are rather complicated creatures, and are generally much more multifaceted than most men. It doesn't mean femdoms don't like kink and so need something to persuade us to engage in it, it means that we want kink AND something else. There's a huge amount more to me than BDSM. Respectfully, I think the notion that women are more multifaceted than most men is a societal myth. I've met wonderful, multifaceted, complex people of both genders - in person and on the Internet. Whether offline or online, one must filter through a lot of "noise" to find compatible people. The Internet leads to many social interactions that would never happen face-to-face, some good and some (perhaps many) not so good. That's the amusement park we're participating in though so it helps to accept this before walking through the gates. Elan.

Venatrix -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 12:37:12 PM)
Well, given that 95% of the e-mail that I got when I had an active profile was all about a guy's kink and how I could satisfy it, perhaps I can be forgiven for thinking that the vast majority of men out there have little to offer beyond that. On the up side, it does make the special men stand out more easily, once you wade through the muck.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 2:49:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer What do you mean by 'in return', V? In return for her engaging in a kink with him? One might ask: 'what should she do for him, in return for his engaging in a kink that she wants to do?' quote: LadyPact Perhaps you can enlighten Me as to exactly what contribution the bottom is making here, except for the fact that he exists and is receiving? Do I hear clip protesting in background? No, I bet he's too modest. [;)] To add to the contributions that Akasha's mentioned . . . It depends. How much of a scene is it of hers, rather than the sub's - that would make a great deal of difference. I've been to BDSM venues and, once or twice, literally had (literal) queues of women wanting to flog me. It doesn't do much for me, mainly because there hasn't been a connection between us. Also, in a given scene, he may be going a lot further than he's ever done before. He may be making himself a lot more vulnerable than he's used to. He may be pushing himself to please her and it may be that that's giving him the buzz, rather than whatever it is that they've agreed to do in the 'scene'. But at this point I don't know whether I'm talking about a 'bottom' here or a submissive. All I really know is that the latter will go further than the former in some way. quote: I don't see it as any different as him being replaced with anyone else. Kind of like buses. If you don't ride one, there will be another along in five minutes. Submissives, on the other hand, are another matter. I'm in full agreement with Lady H that it would be great if bottoms had the option to say that is what and who they are, rather than slapping the submissive tag on themselves. I agree, submissives are another matter. (Though exactly what the difference is seems to remain pretty vague.) Presumably, there's more of a connection - therefore, it'd be about both sides owing something to the other? If, indeed, 'owing' comes into it at all . . .

Politesub53 -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 3:19:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Curiousrestricti The idea of being "forced" into activites a stright man might be uncomfortable with like strapon etc much more of a turn on than just rolling over and taking it which just seems unatural to me. Yet here you are, telling the world being "forced" is a turn on to you. Do you not see the irony ?

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