RE: The Thrill of the Hunt

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PeonForHer -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 3:23:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix I think, P, that you'll find (if you haven't already), that women are rather complicated creatures, and are generally much more multifaceted than most men. It doesn't mean femdoms don't like kink and so need something to persuade us to engage in it, it means that we want kink AND something else. There's a huge amount more to me than BDSM. If it means having to put up with someone's selfish behaviour just to have him 'let' me use my strap-on, I'll do without the playtime. I think that you could swap all the pronouns around in that, V, and it'd apply to some men, too. I would certainly need kink and something else. I have to know her, like her and trust her, at minimum. quote: In addition, there's the sheer skewing of the numbers. Why should I put up with someone who is substandard (yes, pun intended), when I can have someone fabulous? Where's the incentive? And I don't know a single femdom who feels otherwise, unless she's doing it for money. In which case, she's still getting something extra. I hated this 'numbers issue' once, then I realised that it wasn't anywhere near what some have claimed it to be. I came to notice that quite a lot of dommes couldn't find a play partner with whom they actually wanted to play. Even if they were 'true subs' - a rarity in itself (or so vast numbers of dommes have said, repeatedly, on this forum), said true subs were lacking in some other major facet of their character. But in the end, I just went back to that original hatred of the 'numbers issue' and realised that I couldn't, and mustn't, let it make a difference. For one thing, the implication is that I must adjust my wants, interests and needs because of the pressure it implies. But I find I can't do that - at least, not in a fundamental way. It wouldn't be healthy for my soul were I even to try. I can't put up with getting less than I want and go with a domme who doesn't suit me. So, I have to options. I can go with a vanilla and hope to persuade her to carry out some BDSM-style act that I'm particularly into. It would be a pale shadow of the real thing, because I'd know she's only acting - but it'd still be something. On the upside: there hasn't ever been a 'numbers issue' for me with vanillas - so I know I could find one who isn't - to use your own term - 'substandard' by my personal standards, at least as regards those vanilla qualities. Or, my current choice: I carry on wanking, like a good 'un. A wank a day keeps the shrink away, as I always say. Not ideal, but I survive. [;)] I've known, for a long, long time, that being single is better than being with someone who isn't right for me. Christ, it's even less lonely than being with someone who is wrong for me.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 3:27:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Curiousrestricti The idea of being "forced" into activites a stright man might be uncomfortable with like strapon etc much more of a turn on than just rolling over and taking it which just seems unatural to me. Yet here you are, telling the world being "forced" is a turn on to you. Do you not see the irony ? Maybe he does see the irony, PS (hence those quote marks). Isn't being a sub inherently paradoxical - ironic - anyway? "I want to be forced" is illogical - but, that's what subs are all about, I thought . . .

Politesub53 -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 3:39:42 PM)
You may be right Peon, but he seemed to make the distinction to me. I dont want to be forced except in a play role, other than that i want to be nurtured and encouraged. Being submissive is who I am not what turns me on, not that it doesnt turn me on at times as well.

Venatrix -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 3:59:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I hated this 'numbers issue' once, then I realised that it wasn't anywhere near what some have claimed it to be. Well, it is and it isn't. Admittedly, there are a lot of men out there who leave a lot to be desired. But even if 95% of the men who crossed my in-box were unsuitable, 5% 'good catches' out of more than two thousand contacts is still quite a pool from which to be a fisher of men. If a man wants a dominant female as a partner, he still needs to make himself the very best person he can, regardless of how he feels about the numerical imbalance. The biggest drawback about it, though, is that the sheer numbers of selfish men make it tiring for a femdom to weed through them all to find the good ones. Fortunately, it does happen eventually. quote: I've known, for a long, long time, that being single is better than being with someone who isn't right for me. Christ, it's even less lonely than being with someone who is wrong for me. I agree. But, sometimes, we put up so many barriers to forming a relationship that the right ones never get a chance to prove that they are right for us. No matter who does the hunting, the prey has to be available. And edible. [:D]

LadyHibiscus -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 4:09:31 PM)
Celeste, were you referring to me directly, or just using fast reply? Just in case... for me the thrill does NOT lie in the hunt. Truly, the hunt is the most aggravating part, and I just want to move on to the "rest of our lives/year/however long" part. I do expect there to be some courtship involved, not just OH MISTRESS I WANT TO SERVE YOU I HAVE NO LIMITS. What kind of relationship he/she and I are going to have is going to depend on what I can provide... I am not the kind of person who just tosses good folks aside for no good reason. if I want to play casualy, I do!

PeonForHer -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 4:47:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix No matter who does the hunting, the prey has to be available. And edible. [:D] Well, I could strive to be edible, assuming she - whoever she is - likes what she sees, and doesn't mind it coming with a lot of salt and mustard.

Venatrix -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 4:57:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Well, I could strive to be edible, assuming she - whoever she is - likes what she sees, and doesn't mind it coming with a lot of salt and mustard. Is that bratwurst you have there or are you just happy to see me?

PeonForHer -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 5:17:48 PM)
Typewriters and toolboxes are seldom made of chocolate, V.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 5:29:32 PM)
Hmmm. A chocolate toolbox...

AAkasha -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 7:23:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I think we're coming from vastly different experiences here, Aakasha. In a sense, I'm even a bit surprised at that. I have to wonder if it relies on the fact that we have two different bases to draw on. Some of that could come from the theory that I top males as well as females, but have no interest in topping those who haven't prior expressed a desire to be interested in bottoming, while you come from the opposite view. I'd find it really hard to believe that I've just happened to run across so many "lottery tickets" in life, where you would find them rare. Perhaps I've just been fortunate that I haven't experienced the extremes in your second paragraph. While I find them a bit outrageous, I suppose they could be possible. Not that I haven't ever participated with a bottom that just didn't do it for Me. The thing is I would just move on to the next. It's rare for Me to have a 'bad' S/m experience. Those few times that I do, it's usually in a club setting and there is ample opportunity to just select another bottom. I'm also taking into consideration here that, if I'm going to participate in three or four scenes in a night, if the first one goes off well, I'm already predisposed to easily hitting top space again just because I'm inflicting pain to begin with. This is very similar to what I could say about Myself sexually. If I've orgasmed once, other orgasms in succession aren't that difficult for Me to obtain. If you're basing your theory that bottoming takes skill, how does the bottom apply the same skill with acitivities such as sensory deprivation? Even less than that, if you should choose to bind, gag, and blindfold your bottom, how does this skill come into play? Granted, I'll give you that pain tolerance could fall into this, but if you take away his ability to react, where is the skill then? I do agree somewhat with your last paragraph, but you really did go back and say that it is going to depend on the top. How the top interprets how the bottom reacts. Given those five bottoms, I'm almost certain that you and I would rank them differently because of our different interests. A bottom submitting to sensory deprivation, extreme bondage, or other very limiting things must have skill; in fact, he has to have even more skill because he's limited in his ability to communicate to me. What makes a good bottom? A man who works to make himself interesting, exciting, enticing, challenging (but not smart ass), sensual prey. Versus a man who merely is present and endures. My desire to dominate isn't an arbitrary sort of pleasure or enjoyment like playing tennis, it's more of a bloodlust (minus the blood) kind of "hunger." At times I wonder if I am the only woman wired like this. While most of the time I may be just content, I get urges to see a man submit that are very primal and lustful, more powerful and distracting than the desire for sex (comparing it to physical arousal). What I hunger for, though, is the feeling that I get from a man who sensually sacrifices his comfort, freedom or pride for my erotic pleasure. This absolutely requires a very present, proactive and inventive partner - and he must do this while restrained in most cases. It's how he uses his body language, his eyes, his breathing, his words, and the specific timing of all of these things. More importantly it's how he does all these things while noting what's turning me on (if I am not as being so blatant as to masturbate on his face or show him my panties) so he can be better and better at it. If a bottom portrays things like self indulgence, pushiness, an overly stoic nature, absurd fake resistance, mocking tough guy demeanor, or merely a lack of emotional/sensual "presence" (some subs say "subspace" makes them distant; that's fine, but I don't like dominating zombies -- some ladies love this, they love "doing that to a guy" but I need more colorful prey) then I get bored, and I start to feel drained. I have thought a lot of the energy stuff is hogwash sometimes, but I have to just admit it's true. I need to get something back when I am topping a man and it's not service or what he did for me that day, it's his top-priority willingness and drive to feed my sadistic side and help me feel that all-over-body-wracking emotional orgasm that I get from topping a man when I feel that he's suffered and sacrificed for me because seeing what it does to me is more important than his own comfort. This comes from a building of emotional, authentic vulnerability that is absolutely something a man must work to bring to the surface, not just "endure." Hope that makes sense. It's often a mystery to me, too. Akasha

Underumam -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 7:30:35 PM)
This lady really gets it.^^^^^^^^

ElanSubdued -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 9:37:19 PM)
LadyPact, Akasha, PeonForHer, and Everyone; What the heck. I'll dive into the debate vis-a-vis "submissives do/don't have skills the way a dominant does". I think this started with a post by LadyPact and has been continued by Akasha, Peon, LadyPact (herself), and others. Firstly, to LadyAngelika: I like the subject of the OP a lot. It caused people think about their motivations, triggers, and inner psyche. Likewise, it brought about discussion of what really brings kinky people together (which I believe, despite BDSM backdrops and roles, has less to do with BDSM and a lot more to do with personality and chemistry between people). I like a good, substantive thread that has staying power. This thread has potential to stir constructive debate for a while. Thank you so much for posting this. I look forward to addressing the main subject more directly in due course. Okay. Back to the subs do/don't have/need skills bit. I lean toward Akasha's view that some bottoms have considerable skill (just as some tops do). Akasha explained this so well that I'll quote her. As follows: quote: Akasha: Skilled bottoms (to me) are like a lottery ticket. It's a goldmine when I find one. If a bottom just existed to endure and be the recipient, then really you couldn't say that dominating Joe 1 was better than dominating Joe 2, except that Joe 2 painted your kitchen. I think bottoming is a skill. I think it's like making love - some men are good at it, some are bad at it, some are selfish, some are selfless, and others are just inexperienced. Sure, all kinky men will eagerly offer it (just like most men will line up to get laid), but are they any good at it? (snip) Bottoming takes skill. Not just "how much can a man endure" but this is it: His capacity to observe, understand, interpret, and ultimately predict the sadist's pleasure - AND, to understand her hot buttons so he can make the scene as exciting and rewarding as possible for her. It's just like making love. He has to understand what makes her tick, and then be an active participant - not just a crash test dummy - to make sure she's getting all she wants and needs from his bottoming. Heating up the debate and simultaneously ruining my reputation as a submissive, I'll add the following: I've created many scenes for dominants. Sometimes my partners were aware of this and sometimes they weren't. I find great joy in initiating, coming up with ideas for surprising my partner (in a good way!), planning, execution, and ultimately watching my partner enjoy herself. Sometimes my partners have initiated and led. Sometimes I've initiated and led, because that's what my partner wanted me to do. Often there is enough trust, affection, and mutual "turn on" factor that initiation, leading, and other dynamics don't stay specifically on the top or the bottom. I tend to think this is the foundation for connective interplay and it leads to a powerful tapestry of mutual seduction. Seduction (as Akasha alluded to) takes great skill - listening to your partner, watching your partner's body language, and learning what turns your partner on. Planning is a big part of this and it requires noting things your partner has said and observing involuntary reactions. Often I'll tuck these away (writing them down on paper if need be) for a later use. On the technical side of things, not all submissives are unaware of how to use rope, floggers, and other toys. Similarly, interactions between a dominant and her submissive don't always involve the dominant "doing things" to the submissive. For example, once, when we were playing, a dominant flirted with me by saying "well, you could tie my hands up". Twenty minutes later I had her gagged, bound in a hog tie, and covered with clothespins placed in various, "effective" places. The rest of the scene shall remain private, however, it's illuminating to note that most of the doing came from my end and much of the receiving came from her. We both enjoyed this immensely. I don't think she thought I'd go quite as far as she hinted, but that was half the fun. Juxtaposition of roles. Let's see just how sadistic the submissive can be! We kept reading each other and going where the sexual energy lead us. Needless to say, this was a lot of fun and required skill on both out parts. Certainly, neither of us was a passive adventurer. Oh. Darn. Guess I busted that other tenet I already came to terms with in the thread. I've never been good at mono dimensionality so apparently I'm against the submissive grain. Complicated, multifaceted, and wanting to share much more than just BDSM with a partner. There's a huge amount more to me than BDSM and a significantly large, non-kinky spectrum of life I seek to continue learning about and to share with a domme. Elan.

dominalisa -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 9:39:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha My desire to dominate isn't an arbitrary sort of pleasure or enjoyment like playing tennis, it's more of a bloodlust (minus the blood) kind of "hunger." At times I wonder if I am the only woman wired like this. While most of the time I may be just content, I get urges to see a man submit that are very primal and lustful, more powerful and distracting than the desire for sex (comparing it to physical arousal). What I hunger for, though, is the feeling that I get from a man who sensually sacrifices his comfort, freedom or pride for my erotic pleasure. ...... ...It's how he uses his body language, his eyes, his breathing, his words, and the specific timing of all of these things. ..... ......I have thought a lot of the energy stuff is hogwash sometimes, but I have to just admit it's true. I completely understand since I have the same insistent need/hunger at times. You're not alone. And to see a male show some true sacrifice or struggle beyond what he thinks he was capable of but is willing to do it just for my happiness/satisfaction....can be quite delicious.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/27/2009 9:52:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika I took a hiatus from online BDSM communities for about 4 years, but that doesn't mean I took a hiatus from being the dominant, sadistic woman that I am. For a good part of that time I was in a relationship with a kinky man that I found outside the BDSM community. In fact, he knew almost nothing about it. I made him discover it, I became his Lady, his Queen. It was lovely while it lasted and I hold good memories. Nice. I've come back to these forums because in the past they've been very helpful in helping me figure things out. But having a profile on collarme has reconfirmed something that I've felt since the very beginning. It is very unlikely that I'll find the perfect boy for me on this site (or any similar site). The reason is simple. The men on this site, for the most part, are too submissive from the get-go. Not so. None of the above. No. (No). I'm a huntress. (I know). In my career, in my studies, in my life, I go after what I want. My friends who know nothing of my explorations in WIITWD are always referring to me as the woman in charge (no doubt), the woman who sets her goal on something and gets it (hahahahahahahaa.....no shit?), the woman who can intimidate just about any man (almost). And they are right. (almost). There are a few men who I don't intimidate and they happen to be the ones that I want. How twisted is that?! But I don't want to intimidate them, but rather I want to captivate them, to influence and dominate by my charm and the possibility of discovering a whole kinky world to make their heads spin. There is a part of me that wants to initiate them to this, make them discover it. Hmmmm....intriguing. So you can imagine that when a boy sends me an email about all the things that professional dommes have done to them or of all the things they've seen in porn and how they will do anything to have me use them and fulfil their fantasies, the thrill of the hunt is gone. Hmmmm.... I'm not suggesting that all Dominant women approach WIITWD this way, I wonder how many other women feel something similar. - LA (I do...as well...indeed)

LadyPact -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/28/2009 12:35:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha A bottom submitting to sensory deprivation, extreme bondage, or other very limiting things must have skill; in fact, he has to have even more skill because he's limited in his ability to communicate to me. What makes a good bottom? A man who works to make himself interesting, exciting, enticing, challenging (but not smart ass), sensual prey. Versus a man who merely is present and endures. This is where I think we're on the wrong wavelength. I think from what you describe here is you're including the interactions with said bottom, where I'm talking about more the 'meet and beat' variety. I'm not talking about the thrill of the chase in this event. Not predator and prey. Not all of the events leading up to a scene..... Just the scene itself. Good, old fashioned play. quote: My desire to dominate isn't an arbitrary sort of pleasure or enjoyment like playing tennis, it's more of a bloodlust (minus the blood) kind of "hunger." At times I wonder if I am the only woman wired like this. While most of the time I may be just content, I get urges to see a man submit that are very primal and lustful, more powerful and distracting than the desire for sex (comparing it to physical arousal). We've discussed this a number of times on various threads. I would think we'd be tired of listening to the same thing come from one another. I get the same kind of charge from administering pain for pain's sake. I actually don't link it to a desire for sex since I don't engage in physical sex with anyone that I am just topping. quote: What I hunger for, though, is the feeling that I get from a man who sensually sacrifices his comfort, freedom or pride for my erotic pleasure. This absolutely requires a very present, proactive and inventive partner - and he must do this while restrained in most cases. I think we're talking about two very different types of scenes here. quote: It's how he uses his body language, his eyes, his breathing, his words, and the specific timing of all of these things. More importantly it's how he does all these things while noting what's turning me on (if I am not as being so blatant as to masturbate on his face or show him my panties) so he can be better and better at it. None of which can be done in the situation I described above. Once again, I think we have very different definitions of casual play and top/bottom here. Your example in the above wouldn't be something that would be a part of a scene with Me if someone was just a bottom. quote: If a bottom portrays things like self indulgence, pushiness, an overly stoic nature, absurd fake resistance, mocking tough guy demeanor, or merely a lack of emotional/sensual "presence" (some subs say "subspace" makes them distant; that's fine, but I don't like dominating zombies -- some ladies love this, they love "doing that to a guy" but I need more colorful prey) then I get bored, and I start to feel drained. We're different here, too. I actually LOVE taking people to subspace through pain. If there's a climax in S/m, that's where I find it. Both in taking someone there as well as My own. I haven't had the zombie experience, so perhaps I should consider Myself lucky. LOL. quote: I have thought a lot of the energy stuff is hogwash sometimes, but I have to just admit it's true. I need to get something back when I am topping a man and it's not service or what he did for me that day, it's his top-priority willingness and drive to feed my sadistic side and help me feel that all-over-body-wracking emotional orgasm that I get from topping a man when I feel that he's suffered and sacrificed for me because seeing what it does to me is more important than his own comfort. This comes from a building of emotional, authentic vulnerability that is absolutely something a man must work to bring to the surface, not just "endure." Hope that makes sense. It's often a mystery to me, too. Akasha It makes plenty of sense. We just go about our goals in a different way. I'd much rather have a masochist who actually wants to take what I can dish out. If it's a top/bottom scene, that's where My desire lies. Not physical sex, not sacrifice, not even especially discomfort. In this thread, I haven't been talking about bottoms who have engaged with tops on multiple occasions where the case is that the two have been engaged in a seductive type of dance with each other for days or weeks before they actually play. I'm looking at this more from the angle of, go to the public event with your toy bag, find a bottom, negotiate, and play.

LadyPact -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/28/2009 1:05:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued On the technical side of things, not all submissives are unaware of how to use rope, floggers, and other toys. Similarly, interactions between a dominant and her submissive don't always involve the dominant "doing things" to the submissive. For example, once, when we were playing, a dominant flirted with me by saying "well, you could tie my hands up". Twenty minutes later I had her gagged, bound in a hog tie, and covered with clothespins placed in various, "effective" places. The rest of the scene shall remain private, however, it's illuminating to note that most of the doing came from my end and much of the receiving came from her. We both enjoyed this immensely. I don't think she thought I'd go quite as far as she hinted, but that was half the fun. Juxtaposition of roles. Let's see just how sadistic the submissive can be! We kept reading each other and going where the sexual energy lead us. Needless to say, this was a lot of fun and required skill on both out parts. Certainly, neither of us was a passive adventurer. I wanted to say something about this portion in particular. What you are describing here is a submissive who is topping. In such a case, I would expect that person to acquire the same topping skills as anyone else. This fits just fine if you happen to find a Dominant who also enjoys bottoming. If they don't, the topping skill of the sub comes off of the table, unless they happen to find someone to bottom to both of them. Since there has been so much back and forth on one specific issue in this thread, I want to make My position clear. When I say top, I mean the person administering an activity. When I say bottom, I am referring to the person receiving that activity. I'm not confusing that with Dominant and submissive, as I think has happened a couple of times in this thread. I tend to think that complicates the matter. quote: Oh. Darn. Guess I busted that other tenet I already came to terms with in the thread. I've never been good at mono dimensionality so apparently I'm against the submissive grain. Complicated, multifaceted, and wanting to share much more than just BDSM with a partner. There's a huge amount more to me than BDSM and a significantly large, non-kinky spectrum of life I seek to continue learning about and to share with a domme. Elan. But in this instance, I am talking about the one dimensional scenario. If I'm having a one time scene with someone, I'm not especially interested in how multifaceted they believe they are or how the partnership of that scene goes into the non kinky part of life. It's going to last for a couple of hours and during it I'm not going to ask why a certain author is their favorite or any other thing about them. (The exception to this of course, being those pieces of information related to the scene, their medical issues, etc.) It's not going to be overly complicated on either part because two weeks from Tuesday, it was just a good time had and if both got a positive buzz, we might do it again. In top/bottom scenarios, you have the whole spectrum. Some are people that you have just met and you've decided that public play would be a fun idea. Others are long standing arrangements between friend that have known each other for years. It isn't always a case of the two participants are connected in those things outside of BDSM at all. Even those of us who engage in this type of casual play will often tell you that the best scenes that we have are with our own submissives (note the terminology difference) because in addition to just the play, we get all of the connection, desire, and all of the deeper levels that we could potentially have with the person on the other side of the whip.

GloriousMorning -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/28/2009 1:50:30 AM)
In response to the OP, Yes, when I had an active profile here, I received a lot of this type of "attention". I find it very disheartening and annoying when the submissive attempts to make it "all about them". Sadly though, too many of those types exist (and not just on here), and I find that type of passive-aggression unrewarding and unappealing. I am very willing to explore my partner's desires, I think it's fine for me to take their wants into account while maintaining control what it is you actually do. I love it when my submissive shares with me, like confessions of naughty thoughts that they have been having, but too much focus and attention on the submissive's wants and needs in my experience, may cause a misplaced hierarchy of needs within the Dominant/submissive dynamic. The thrill of the hunt has always been exhilarating, new discoveries, new fresh feelings. For me though, long term compatibility and interest in building solid and good relationships take a front seat to the thrill of the hunt/chase/capture/conquer..

Curiousrestricti -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/28/2009 3:45:28 AM)
Paeon hit the nail on the head there, i understand that to be forced would be contradictory seeing as i actually want it. Yes I understand that being a sub is not about subs getting their kinks forfilled, besides that ruins the fundamental power exchange which is the turn on anyway (yes again talking about what does it for me i must be an awful sub lol) I wouldnt deny that even a dom/ sub relationship is still about both sides getting their needs forfilled falls into endless paradox . I dont know if i am a true submissive anyway as i do seem to have a habit of questioning authority in life although I am a passive, dsesprately wanting to please sort of person, im still young still dont know exactly how to label myself [8\|].

Curiousrestricti -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/28/2009 3:54:44 AM)
Sorry i got off topic and started talking about myself at the end there. >.<

Venatrix -> RE: The Thrill of the Hunt (11/28/2009 7:57:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Curiousrestricti Sorry i got off topic and started talking about myself at the end there. >.< There's nothing wrong with talking about your wants and needs. The problem arises with a lot of malesubs in that that is ALL they do. And any woman will satisfy them, because they have no interest in who that woman is as a person. As you can imagine, femdoms tend to get a bit grumpy about this.

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