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RE: Israel - 11/19/2010 9:08:46 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Boy, the left is always anti-Israel.
And Israel has no friends in the White House.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Israel - 11/19/2010 9:22:44 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I am not anti Isreal, but I am anti what the Isrealis are doing to others and with that the zionist mentality. I do believe there are people in that country that similarly don't agree with the policies existence and do have the feelings that what others do in their name is wrong, it is these people who I believe are the true people of that country, not the fanatical nut jobs running it and ruining it for everone to see. These people are making the Jewish become something they perhaps are not, but hypocrites given their ancestry, for persecution is the name of the game and two wrongs do not, never have and never will make a right.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Israel - 11/19/2010 12:30:25 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

oh brother.  Israel is a tiny country, the size of New Jersey, surrounded by countries who want it destroyed, who REFUSE to make peace.  It is interesting how much Israel is criticized...I wonder, as I do not frequent the boards much any more - does China get as much attention for its human rights violations?  Do you know that a man was imprisoned in China for forming a support group for parent of children whose baby food was contaminated with melamine?  No government is perfect, take a look arouund, but dont ya kinda think Israel gets criticized disproportionately?  What's your point, OP?  Are you looking for injustice?  Dont you think there is just a tad more injustice elsewhere in the world?  



I suppose my point is that you and those like you should give your head/s a shake.

Edited to add: do you realise that there is a groundswell of Israeli Jewish opinion that is fed up with people like you talking about something you know next to nothing about and suggesting Israel is the injured party? Go to Israel....have a look round....there are a fair old bunch of Israeli Jews who are mightily pissed off with the Israeli government. Because they've become the tyrants they fled in the first place.....and they know that in the long run they're fucked if they can't find a peaceful compromise.

From personal experience.......when an Arab greets a Jew in Israel.......the Arab greets the Jew with "shalom".....and the Jew with the Arabic version....could be "salem".....they can get on fine....with compromise.

The Jewish fella talking about Masada in the article.....spot on....and there's one guarantee in life....whether it be your next door neighbour....your family...your friends...a competitor.....negotiation works where you both gain something.....not where there's a tyrant such as the Israeli government....or where you have paranoid opinions such as "countries want to destroy Isreal". You won't believe this....but many Israeli Jews don't believe that at all.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 11/19/2010 12:40:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Israel - 11/19/2010 12:43:08 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

Had a bad experience in Germany/with a German recently, or did just somebody piss into your Wheaties this morning?





You and I are on the wrong thread here Sandra.

On the plus side....no one 'pissed in my wheaties'...which is useful....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Israel - 11/19/2010 1:55:49 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Boy, the left is always anti-Israel.
And Israel has no friends in the White House.


You just dont get it do you Pops. I would think even you could be "independent" on this issue, and see that those of us complaing do so not because of left wing politics, but because Israles actions are sometimes wrong.


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Israel - 11/19/2010 5:18:59 PM   
liks2plzlf


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/21/2005
Status: offline 		Why wasn't there a push for a palistinain state prior to 1967?

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Israel - 11/19/2010 5:24:29 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: liks2plzlf

Why wasn't there a push for a palistinain state prior to 1967?


There was, By the British in the Thirties and the UN in 1947.

(in reply to liks2plzlf)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Israel - 11/19/2010 7:16:56 PM   
liks2plzlf


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/21/2005
Status: offline 		I thought the U N set aside territory for the jews to have a homeland, and the rest of the territory was to be arab land. ThejJews accepted, the arabs did not and attacked Israel. Aster the war Jordan, Egypt, and Syria controlled the land. I don't remember there being a clamor for a palistlianian state until 67. But I was not in country in 65, and 66, so did not see much news. The PLO was founded in 64, and their charter called for the destruction of the Jewish state.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Israel - 11/20/2010 1:47:08 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

oh brother.  Israel is a tiny country, the size of New Jersey, surrounded by countries who want it destroyed, who REFUSE to make peace.  It is interesting how much Israel is criticized...I wonder, as I do not frequent the boards much any more - does China get as much attention for its human rights violations?  Do you know that a man was imprisoned in China for forming a support group for parent of children whose baby food was contaminated with melamine?  No government is perfect, take a look arouund, but dont ya kinda think Israel gets criticized disproportionately?  What's your point, OP?  Are you looking for injustice?  Dont you think there is just a tad more injustice elsewhere in the world?  


The difference is, almost everyone with a conscience would agree that human rights abuses in China and Iran and Iraq and Burma are to be deplored. It wouldn't be much of a discussion with everyone posting to agree how dreadful it all is.

Israel is different. Israel is a racist state with an abominable record on human rights, but some of us seem to think that's just fine, 'because of the Holocaust', or 'because of the Arabs', or 'because of 3500 years', or 'because the Jews need a place of their own'.

These attitudes need to be challenged, loud and often.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Israel - 11/20/2010 4:13:35 AM   
hard2handle1


Posts: 15
Joined: 11/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

oh brother.  Israel is a tiny country, the size of New Jersey, surrounded by countries who want it destroyed, who REFUSE to make peace.


Yeah! Damn those Palestinians who provocatively make a fuss about the Israeli Magical Expanding Border. They should just pack up and move their stuff somewhere else when Israeli settlers move in. It's their refusal to accept Israel's right to take whatever land they choose that's causing all this bad feeling.
What have those poor Israelis done to deserve this?.


(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Israel - 11/20/2010 4:15:41 PM   
Firebirdseeking


Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		You guys dont know your history. Jews have lived in the land of Israel for millenia. We were kicked out of the country in the early middle ages; this is known as the Diaspora. IN Europe, we could not own land or join guilds. We were second class citizens wherever we lived. Six million of us were genocided. I am not saying we are the only people who were genocided, in the Holocaust or elsewhere. No one wanted us before the Holocaust began, and no one wanted us after. I ask myself, what was our crime?? And where were we supposed to go, back to Germany? Back to Poland?

I dont live in Israel. I live here. I do know that Israel gets more criticism than any other country no matter what it does. The medical, technical and social advances are ignored and all we hear is how bad the government is. How would y'all like it if all you heard was how terrible and oppressive the US is, how racist and sexist we are, how the Christian majority oppresses religious minorities? How would you feel if that was all you heard, and all the good this country does, went ignored? Anyone care to argue? As I recall, the Palestinians were offered a nation of their own. They want that, AND the right to return to Israel. Good luck with that.

< Message edited by Firebirdseeking -- 11/20/2010 4:20:13 PM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Israel - 11/20/2010 4:35:23 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Blame God, Yahweh and Allah for without do you think there would be these problems ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Israel - 11/20/2010 7:40:05 PM   
Firebirdseeking


Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		You must be kidding; do you think G-d, Yahweh and Allah were responsible for the Holocaust?  You're abdicating humans for their terrible behaviors, and saying it's really the fault of a higher power?

Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel, in his book "Night", I believe, asks Where was G-d? and the answer was, Where was man.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Israel - 11/20/2010 8:35:42 PM   
liks2plzlf


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/21/2005
Status: offline 		I'll blame allah

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Israel - 11/20/2010 10:32:00 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I was replying regarding the earlier problems, the Diaspora you mentioned, but that was not the first time the Jews were expelled from where they lived, for there were expulsions long before that, my question is why ?

Why have so many other cultures chosen to persecute the Jews and I am talking pre history here, what is it that other people did not like ?





_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Israel - 11/20/2010 10:37:13 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hard2handle1

Yeah! Damn those Palestinians who provocatively make a fuss about the Israeli Magical Expanding Border. They should just pack up and move their stuff somewhere else when Israeli settlers move in. It's their refusal to accept Israel's right to take whatever land they choose that's causing all this bad feeling.
What have those poor Israelis done to deserve this?.




Umm. . . when you are attacked and the beat the snot out of the attackers, you get to take the land.  Not really that magical.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Israel - 11/21/2010 1:37:58 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: hard2handle1

Yeah! Damn those Palestinians who provocatively make a fuss about the Israeli Magical Expanding Border. They should just pack up and move their stuff somewhere else when Israeli settlers move in. It's their refusal to accept Israel's right to take whatever land they choose that's causing all this bad feeling.
What have those poor Israelis done to deserve this?.




Umm. . . when you are attacked and the beat the snot out of the attackers, you get to take the land.  Not really that magical.


Not any more. It's a war crime now. So, not magical at all - quite the contrary. A war crime.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Israel - 11/21/2010 1:55:40 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

You guys dont know your history. Jews have lived in the land of Israel for millenia.


'because of 3500 years'...


quote:

IN Europe, we could not own land or join guilds. We were second class citizens wherever we lived.


'because the Jews need a place to call their own'...


quote:

Six million of us were genocided. I am not saying we are the only people who were genocided, in the Holocaust or elsewhere. No one wanted us before the Holocaust began, and no one wanted us after. I ask myself, what was our crime?? And where were we supposed to go, back to Germany? Back to Poland?


'because of the Holocaust'...

quote:

I dont live in Israel. I live here. I do know that Israel gets more criticism than any other country no matter what it does.


'because of anti-Semitism'... ( I forgot that one earlier)

quote:

 The medical, technical and social advances are ignored and all we hear is how bad the government is. How would y'all like it if all you heard was how terrible and oppressive the US is, how racist and sexist we are, how the Christian majority oppresses religious minorities? How would you feel if that was all you heard, and all the good this country does, went ignored? Anyone care to argue? As I recall, the Palestinians were offered a nation of their own. They want that, AND the right to return to Israel. Good luck with that.


None of this excuses the way the Israel behaves.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Israel - 11/21/2010 5:07:38 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: hard2handle1

Yeah! Damn those Palestinians who provocatively make a fuss about the Israeli Magical Expanding Border. They should just pack up and move their stuff somewhere else when Israeli settlers move in. It's their refusal to accept Israel's right to take whatever land they choose that's causing all this bad feeling.
What have those poor Israelis done to deserve this?.




Umm. . . when you are attacked and the beat the snot out of the attackers, you get to take the land.  Not really that magical.


Not any more. It's a war crime now. So, not magical at all - quite the contrary. A war crime.

All nations have an absolute right to self defence and any nation that is attacked is allowed to recoup its material losses from the agressors. So I'm having trouble figuring out how Israel is guilty of a war crime in this instance.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Israel - 11/21/2010 5:58:31 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: hard2handle1

Yeah! Damn those Palestinians who provocatively make a fuss about the Israeli Magical Expanding Border. They should just pack up and move their stuff somewhere else when Israeli settlers move in. It's their refusal to accept Israel's right to take whatever land they choose that's causing all this bad feeling.
What have those poor Israelis done to deserve this?.




Umm. . . when you are attacked and the beat the snot out of the attackers, you get to take the land.  Not really that magical.


Not any more. It's a war crime now. So, not magical at all - quite the contrary. A war crime.

All nations have an absolute right to self defence and any nation that is attacked is allowed to recoup its material losses from the agressors. So I'm having trouble figuring out how Israel is guilty of a war crime in this instance.

Check out what the Geneva Conventions have to say on:
*the colonisation of land acquired by military means ( eg. the so-called 'settlements' in the West Bank and/or the annexation of East Jerusalem).
It's a war crime.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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