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RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 4:35:31 PM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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I am with those stating moderation is the key factor. A drink or two used to be considered a state of sobriety for most people before MADD went into overdrive with our laws. I don't have a problem playing while I and a partner still have our wits about us, drinks or no drinks. But I reserve the right to decide when to play in all cases anyway.

I sure wouldn't want to be part of a social setting where I was the most sober person constantly taking care of a bunch of drunkards though. That would suck.

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(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 21

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 6:09:02 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

A friend of mine who finally went to AA remarked, "You know I used to hang with the smartest and funniest people around. Now, that I'm not drinking they seem like a bunch of idiots."

He likely also found out that they where his friend as long as he took his turn to buy a round of drinks and he was their Best Friend if he was always buying the "next" round.

To the OP..

Play and Alcohol/Drugs doen't mix in my opinion. I don't do it ... I don't like it... I don't like being around it. and Frankly, those that mix it together will never have my respect!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 5/4/2006 6:12:01 PM >

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 22

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 6:42:44 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
and Frankly, those that mix it together will never have my respect!

Does that include me and mine then? We mix the two. In fact I often tease my partners when they have wine with dinner "Now we can't play the rest of the weekend!"

And then we go have a great scene together.

But at least now I know up front that you won't respect me or my partners.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 23

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 6:51:54 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
Just because you are of legal drinking age does NOT mean you are going to be responsible when drinking.. or using drugs.

The question wasn't "Do we feel everyone will be responsible?"

The answer to that question is obviously NO- doesn't matter if we're talking alcohol or driving a car or playing tennis or even going online.

The question *I* am asking is "Do we feel people should have the right to choose taken away from them?"

quote:

Yes, as adults we all have the right to chose whether or not we're going to drink... we're also able to chose whether or not to attend a play party or BDSM club that doesn't allow it.

Absolutely. And I fully encourage people to vote with their feet as to whether they agree or disagree with the principles/social atmosphere of the environment they are in.

That doesn't mean the same as we should not allow people to have the choice to go to those places if they choose and do those things if they choose- whether "those things" = flogging or "those things" = drinking.

quote:

Amazingly enough, the adults that own the property or are renting the property also have the right to refuse entrance to someone that has been drinking or using drugs.

Absolutely. And if management realizes that their standards are preventing success, it's likely they will change them- whether it's due to legal issues, or simply attendance. I said in my original post that I completely understood certain reasons why people would choose not to serve alcohol in public areas.

Taking away freedom to choose not being one of them.

quote:

If I were to attend a play party where heavy drinking was allowed... I'd leave. I have no real compunction to watch an impending train wreck

That makes perfect sense. For me, I've had great times at Leather Retreat, Dark Odyssey, private parties and more where alcohol was definitely present and enjoyed.

Again- this topic isn't about how we particularly feel or choose- I drink alcohol maybe twice a year personally and find drunks of any sort to be annoying. It's about whether we feel adults should have the choice or not.

quote:

But I seem to be part of a minority... the guy that killed one of my boys because he was sure he could drink and drive wasn't in that minority, neither was my brother when he climbed behind the wheel and died, nor was the woman that killed my cousin with her car... the list goes on and on..

And we know the same is true that some people should never pick up a singletail, even if they are totally sober. But we're not going to stop letting ANYONE use whips just because of that.

Again, if a club is afraid of lawsuits or responsibilities- that's one thing. If we're talking simply about the right to have the choice- I don't see how we can say yes to one set of actions and no to another.

quote:

I never assume someone is responsible enough to know when drinking or using drugs is the appropriate time unless I know them really well and they have proven themselves to me.

I completely agree. But again, this has nothing to do with allowing someone to choose for themselves.

quote:

Oh hell yeah, I do believe that some adults should not have the choice as to whether or not they should be allowed to drink and "do something" else... particularly in a public venue... at my house... my "play party"... you betcha...in a heart beat, I would have no issue telling them that they are NOT allowed to drink and if they don't like, I'll show them the door.

Jewel

I can understand that's how you feel and it's your party so it's your rules. But again- we can't say it's ok for adults to make some choices but not others. That's something like saying it's not ok for adult women to choose to get themselves sterilized.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 24

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 8:36:41 PM

Kidless

Posts: 104
Joined: 5/4/2006
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Freinds don't let friends drive subs, drunk.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 25

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 9:23:22 PM

Sensualips

Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
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I have never been at a bdsm event where alcohol was served or witnessed anyone I felt to be overtly and obnoxiously drunk, but in theory I feel like it is a personal issue. I have those liberal-tarian leanings though and support legalization of many drugs as well. I would be uncomfortable being at an event where illegal drugs were present simply because I would not want to put myself at risk for any type of legal entanglement or issue. I have been in private homes where drugs (marijuana, X) were present and being used by some, but I was made aware of it and consented to be there in that situation. I could always leave.

I have opted out of some swingers parties because past experience told me 80% of the people there would be falling down drunk, smelly, too grabby, and a good number of couples would end up in public arguments. That is their choice to drink, but it is also my choice to not be there if it is not enjoyable for me.

(in reply to Proprietrix)

Post #: 26

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 9:39:13 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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Joined: 6/25/2004
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I understand and support both attitudes within this. I like to have a drink or two when I'm out at a party, because it is a pretty good shyness antidote; I don't touch single tails, play with needles, and generally stay away from edgier play.
I also know people who drink too much and get out of control. I personally would like to have the choice as to whether or not I will drink/play, and I of course understand that I would be judged as a result and may or may not be invited back if I cross boundaries with anyone.

The other thing I would be interested to know is whether everyone who says no to alcohol also says no to all medicinal anxyolitics (prescription or otherwise). It would hardly be honest/fair to say people who have a drink or two are retarded, but okay for me to pop a benzodiazepine every 6-8hours because it comes with a doctor's blessing.

Being new and very flexible, I of course go into all new situations humbly following the rules laid out for me, but if I find an excess of tight ass judgemental people there, I'd just as soon stay home, and enjoy the company of people I like, and respect. M

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(in reply to Proprietrix)

Post #: 27

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 10:41:15 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
and Frankly, those that mix it together will never have my respect!

Does that include me and mine then? We mix the two. In fact I often tease my partners when they have wine with dinner "Now we can't play the rest of the weekend!"

And then we go have a great scene together.

But at least now I know up front that you won't respect me or my partners.

I don't make exception just because a body happens to be hot or a mind happens to be incredible... Principles are principles... and I will not change this ... However, I don't question anyones right to choose ... providing those choices are not going to have a direct impact on myself. If others like you want to mix it up... fine...that's as persons choice. I believe it's important that we defend a persons right to choose... providing such choices doesn't harm or have a reckless risk of harm to others. Common sense tells you that you can mix it without causing harm... moderation as someone said.... but, I am a purist I suppose... and to me play/alchohol just don't mix.... I can accept that others will do it... but I will never respect it.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 28

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 11:06:58 PM

fullofgrace

Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The topic however is not "How do you feel towards drinking and playing?"

The question is "How do you feel about alcohol/drugs being a choice at play events?"

I'm not sure how we can reconcile the idea that adults are mature and responsible enough to be allowed the choice of whether to do kinky stuff or not...but not mature and responsible enough to be allowed the choice of whether to drink alcohol/do drugs or not.

i've never been to a public play event, so maybe i have no business posting this, but i think it's more a matter of not allowing people the ability to get drunk or stoned and then not have the control they normally would in a play situation. bdsm scening requires a modicum of control - especially on the dominant's part. how can you be in control of someone else when you're on mind altering substances that disallow you control of your own body? i personally just think it's unsafe - it is taking a situation that already has normal risk factors and heightening those risk factors. i drink maybe once a year and smoke pot maybe once a year; i haven't done alcohol or drugs regularly in over three years. He and i have discussed my using drugs to heighten our play but He would be completely sober and we have an established relationship. i would be afraid to play with anyone if i were in a group of people i did not have that relationship with and they were in some way inebriated. i think everybody should have the choice of alcohol/drugs - but combining alcohol/drugs and private bdsm events is tricky - i can't imagine what kind of damage it could cause at group bdsm events.

< Message edited by fullofgrace -- 5/4/2006 11:11:33 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/4/2006 11:47:58 PM

naughtynick

Posts: 207
Joined: 1/20/2006
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Nothing wrong with beer and bongs. But as for other drugs........

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 30

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 12:05:48 AM

Wickad

Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline

Here in Calgary there is a Fetish night that happens at a bar. There is alcohol and dancing and sometimes even a bit of play. I go because I like to dress in pretty corsets and shoes I can't walk in - lol.

We also have a monthly play party that I used to help organize. We did not allow any alcohol or drugs and if you showed up intoxicated or we knew you had been using then you would not gain admittance. Those were our rules and we stuck by them.

This is not to say that I hate people who mix drink or drugs with play. What it means is that I don't want to play with them. It's my choice to play with who I want and I won't play with anyone who has had anything to drink or smoke (or shoot, or etc).

Wickad

(in reply to naughtynick)

Post #: 31

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 12:14:43 AM

ServiceNTucson

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The topic however is not "How do you feel towards drinking and playing?"

The question is "How do you feel about alcohol/drugs being a choice at play events?"

I'm not sure how we can reconcile the idea that adults are mature and responsible enough to be allowed the choice of whether to do kinky stuff or not...but not mature and responsible enough to be allowed the choice of whether to drink alcohol/do drugs or not.

Far too many adults seem not to be mature enough to be allowed the choice of whether to drink or do drugs at a play event. Look at the number of people every year arrested for DUI. If people can't be trusted to make the right decision as to whether or not they're fit to operate a motor vehicle, I feel they can't be trusted to make the decision as to whether or not they're fit to operate a whip, or take one.

Desert Dominion allows drinking at our monthly munch, which is held in a restaraunt that serves alcohol. We do not allow alcohol or drugs at our weekly play parties, held at our clubhouse. In fact, we don't allow them at any event at the clubhouse. When this decision was made, not only was the safety of the people playing considered, but also the survival of the club itself.

It's up to the host to decide whether to allow playing under the influence at a private residence. I myself would not bottom to, or top somebody who appeared to me to be under the influence. Call it a hard limit for me.

< Message edited by ServiceNTucson -- 5/5/2006 12:16:00 AM >

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 32

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 12:17:36 AM

masterdeltafire

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Joined: 9/26/2005
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Personally, I would never attend a munch or play party if there was alcohol and drugs there.

Even in small doses it does not take much to impair judgement, pain tolerences and what not and truly hurt someone.

I understnd freedom of choice, but the safety of others matters more to me.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 33

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 3:40:57 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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Sniff...
What is that stink? Ah, the stink of "holier than thou."

I like where people talk about the adult inability to drive and gauge one's level of intoxication at the same time. Hell, if people cannot be trusted to make sensible decisions there how can you trust anyone to wield a whip or a knife over anyone else? Does thinking with their genitals somehow improve their decision making faculties? How about adrenalin and endorphins? Aren't those drugs? Drugs the bodies makes for itself? Some of you fuckers are scening under the influence of adrenalin and endorphins! OMFG - call the cops!!!

Jesus H people - make your choices, stop preaching. If it's your venue, you make the rules. Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to masterdeltafire)

Post #: 34

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 4:02:54 AM

CanadianGuy

Posts: 219
Status: offline

I'm not into drug use, and wouldn't accept my submissive's drug abusing behaviour (if that were the case). Thankfully, as troubled as she has been through her teens, she has never drank or used drugs. Myself, I do drink socially, and sometimes have one or two beers in the evening (perhaps once every few weeks). So very little. At a party, I'll drink to get drunk, but that's maybe four times a year. I've ingested pot and mushrooms in the past, in safe relaxed atmospheres around close friends, and that went well. I don't tend to get much out of drug use other than being even more paranoid and possessive than I already am, though. :p

When my girl and I are finally together, I would be fine with her wanting to try alcohol as long as I was in control of her and the situation, of course. And although I'm not really "for" drugs, I think an exploration of something, along with her, might be in the works some day. As an experimental adventure type thing.

In general I think people who get angry or out of control on alcohol or drugs shouldn't use. And people in BDSM should use even less - giving up control to a substance can't be that useful.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 35

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 5:47:42 AM

temptressofsouls

Posts: 208
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Toledo, OH
Status: offline

I think for the safety of A/all involved, there should be a zero tolerance policy for consuming alcohol/drugs at an event, and certainly if S/someone shows up obviously affected, they should be turned away and sent home.

It's just so much easier, and safer to have a blanket rule, otherwise the grey area is overwhelming and you'd have to do a lot of babysitting. Say you have a one drink (or 2, or 3, or 392) limit. Sometimes that's all it takes for some people to be noticeably affected, not to mention one shot of whiskey might affect S/someone differently then one beer.

I just personally dont understand the NEED/desire to be under the influence in this situation...the endorphines ought to be enough :-p

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 36

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 6:35:44 AM

Kindred2Evil

Posts: 227
Joined: 4/16/2005
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I have a question. Some here say they have a glass of wine or a beer to unwind, relax and loosen up. Why?
To me, that's using alcohol as a crutch. It's one thing to drink at home when there's nothing going on, or at a bar when out with friends, but before a scene?? Where is the sense in that? You become responsible for the health and well being of another person during play and you've got to drink beforehand?? Nice.
I've had play parties here at the house that some have refused to come to because they couldn't bring alcohol. My rules are my rules period. It's not worth the risk of the "could happens" when you mix alcohol and drugs into an already potentially dangerous passtime.
I feel that it should be a blanket rule, you show up drunk/high/stoned then no admittance. You get that way somehow while at the party, you're very politely escorted to the door. It's dangerous.
Many will argue and have that one or two drinks doesn't affect them. LOL! Well, if it doesn't affect you, why are you having one or two before you play?
It would be nice if all adults were trustworthy and knew their limits when it came to alcohol and drugs, but get real. Some don't or there wouldn't be DUI's, accidents where the driver was so impaired he kills a family of 4 and doesn't even get a scratch on his person.
Most of the munches I've been to were at resturaunts where they served alcohol true, but nothing else happened. We came, we ate dinner, we talked, we left. If someone who'd been drinking played afterwards I pretty much figure their an idiot who cares for noone and nothing other than their own pleasure.

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Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to temptressofsouls)

Post #: 37

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 7:51:20 AM

justatoy2

Posts: 163
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

I enjoy the feelings i get from a glass or two of wine. Its not a crutch. Its me doing what makes me happy. But I am responsible about it. I don't drink and drive. I don't drink and play. I have had a situation where my dom and i had a bit too much to drink, and played, afterwards we talked about it and decided that would not happen again because of the risk involved. I certainly am not going to sit here and condemn anyone because they enjoy having a glass of wine from time to time because it makes them feel good. IF you are going to go down that road..then isn't bdsm a crutch? Being spanked releases endorphines. When those endorphines are released i feel more relaxed, less shy, almost like i am high. So if drinking a class of wine is a so called crutch..then so is a spanking..or anything else that makes you feel good.

(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

Post #: 38

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 8:38:00 AM

RapturesDaddy

Posts: 25
Joined: 4/29/2006
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Nothing wrong with a drink, MAYBE two. More? no thanks. Not for this dom. I Never do drugs either, and nor will mine.

Anything that clouds judgement, or takes away from the scene is a no no in my book.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 39

RE: Alcohol/Drug Use in "The Scene" - 5/5/2006 10:50:46 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapturesDaddy
Anything that clouds judgement, or takes away from the scene is a no no in my book.

Adrenalin and endorphins can cloud your judgment - but that's the point isn't it?

Hmmm...

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to RapturesDaddy)

Post #: 40

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