RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged

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LDVixen -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 12:38:52 PM)
I would not allow it to be done to me. I do not feel it is safe. If someone felt it was safe, I simply would refrain from playing with that person. That said, the closest I came to this situation was I was left blindfolded, gagged with cloth, bound to a hotel room bed. I knew that I was being left alone by one person and another person was arriving. I trusted them both. I knew that the first while mind fucking me was not going to leave me alone with the hotel room door cracked open so the second person could get in. They were both too possessive of me to allow someone unknown to get their hands on me. They also know that I can get clausterphobic when tied so leaving me alone wouldn't be a "real" option. It still freaked me out a bit to have one person leave and the next arrive, have my panties torn off, and to be taken without the person saying a word. I knew I was safe but my mind was screaming at me. "What if this is someone else? I can't see. They are silent. They are never silent. Who is this? Which one of them?"

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 12:39:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BKSir Actually, on the "mind fuck" side, I do enjoy employing noise cancelling ear buds and music as he's bound and blindfolded, so he has no idea if I'm there or not unless I touch him. That's rather fun, and certainly leads to the feeling of "Am I alone? What do I do? Am I okay?" Yes it can be great fun, and is one of my favorite mindfucks. Which is what got me thinking. You see long ago I was taught a "one true way" on this issue, and as often happens, time changes your perspective. I love the "idea" of maybe being left alone, which makes me believe others are willing to risk actually being alone. So I'm not looking for the "one true way" rule here, more others perspectives and their thoughts on why or why not this is something they would do.

needlesandpins -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 12:56:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins does alot of what you have the risk of carol dying Yes, lots and lots of stuff... waking up in the morning for instance and you going to jail for it? Less stuff, but still yes. For instance, having sex with her. also, if she died because you left her, could you live with that? Unequivocally yes assuming I'd done due diligence in the actuarial tables. first instance, whey to go taking something out of context. secondly, unless she is under age, or you rape her without concent i don't see how you go to jail just for having sex with her. thirdly, if you leave her alone in a place while you go off and do something else, you can not possibly do due diligence. needles

leadership527 -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 12:57:37 PM)
makes mental notes of the one true way Well there. I've got it all recorded now for posterity and whatnot. Thank god you have straightened me out on life, the universe and everything. I'll be sure and toss out everything I learned in formal risk management training in order to satisfy your religious convictions. Facts are, after all, only for those who lack confidence in their beliefs, right?

peachgirl -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:01:38 PM)
in all honesty, I don't think it is something he would consider doing. he's always conscious of any possible circulation issues that can/have popped up. that being said, he has mind-fucked me a couple of times while I've been tied up and blind-folded. I don't put that past him one bit. besides, I think it's more fun for the D type, because they can see what's going on and enjoy it. if they aren't around to watch, what's the point? just get a dog instead.

Focus50 -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:05:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt Is this something you would ever do with your s type, or allow to be done to you (f you are the s type) Why and/or why not? If this seems okay with you, what kind of restraints would you use/allow to be used? What kind of safety measures (if any) would you have any place? If you caged someone or agreed to be caged and left alone, please give us details of the circumstances (size of cage, safety measures, etc). I have my own strong opinions on this subject, which I will post at some point this evening, but I would like to get others' thoughts first, if you please. No, I don't leave her alone while she's tied up - beyond the need to fetch something or use the bathroom etc. We're talking maybe a minute or two tops, here. And I make it a point to tell her that she'll be alone for that little bit and check back in when I return, esp if she's blindfolded as well.... Odd about blindfolds, actually...! I mean I'm well aware that depriving one sense heightens others and that she'd obviously feel the vibration of footsteps returning etc, but for some reason I feel more obliged to inform her that she's no longer alone. But I digress.... For me, at least half the point of tying her up is so that I can soak up her utter helplessness. And vulnerability, too, which is why I don't waste bondage time and trouble on a clothed sub. And being a typically visual orientated male, I need to be in the same room to enjoy what I enjoy re bondage. I don't have cages nor am I motivated to want one but if we're talking about a miniature prison cell where an unbound sub can move relatively freely within it, then I'd probably be inclined to relax my guard a little. And maybe allow her an emergency cell phone within her reach, mostly in case something happened to me. But I hate hypotheticals (cages). Bondage is about physically controlling her and I need to be there to enjoy that aspect of my D/s. Focus.

needlesandpins -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:07:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 makes mental notes of the one true way Well there. I've got it all recorded now for posterity and whatnot. Thank god you have straightened me out on life, the universe and everything. sarcasm, the lowest form of wit. clearly i have not taught you anything, nore do i try to do so. i'm mearly asking real questions. your answers seem very strange to me and contradictory so i have questioned them. to me your answers do not make sence. the last as i pointed out contradicts itself. as for the one true way crap, well it's just that. but if you can't help me understand what you are talking about in an adult fashion, so be it. i've said it many times before, i'm sure i'll say it again, each to their own. however, if i were to be in contact with someone who answered in such a fashion i wouldn't be about for long. maybe this is why i'd never make a slave or a true sub [;)] needles

LadyPact -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:25:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 makes mental notes of the one true way Well there. I've got it all recorded now for posterity and whatnot. Thank god you have straightened me out on life, the universe and everything. I'll be sure and toss out everything I learned in formal risk management training in order to satisfy your religious convictions. Facts are, after all, only for those who lack confidence in their beliefs, right? Isn't part of risk management assessing the risk and making a decision based on the benefit in regard to the amount of that same risk? I'm not necessarily looking at the situation in the same way that might be termed risk management. I'm looking at it in the way that I interpret RACK. I know there are risks involved. At the same time, I am going to keep them as minimal as possible within My power. I can also just as easily say that the play I'm engaging in might not be worth the risk if I continue to add risk factors to it. I don't see this as a one true way thing. I see it as folks either accepting increased risk or not. Very much like when we discuss other types of play that might have greater risks than others.

leadership527 -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:25:40 PM)
Oh wait.. it wasn't apparent to me you REALLY wanted to have this conversation. OK, here goes. a) I did not take anything out of context. My relationship is 24/7. Waking up is just as much a thing as "tying her up". Life is life. I command Carol in pretty much all things and ALL of those command carry risk with them. b) You clearly have no idea what the laws of the land look like. If Carol goes to a DA and says I raped her, then it's going to get prosecuted -- in a lot of states the investigation part is mandatory. Because I am male and she is female there will be a presumption of guilt -- both in the courts and in the press. It'll become a he said, she said sort of thing. Under the best of circumstances (I win the case), my life is a shambles and I move to a new city and new job and try to rebuild a new life. c) YOU assert that it's not possible to do due do diligence and at the same time do this act. That's circular logic. The act is too risky because it's too risky. Instead, let's look at this in formal terms (OK, simplistic formal terms but still).. Likelihood of event occurring Severity of event occuring Detectability of event occurring In this case, the likelihood is very low but the severity is very high and detectability are very low. That is not an ideal setup but it's hardly unmanageable. When you weight all those factors however you do, you also have to compare against alternatives. So, for instance, if the scenario is "I tie Carol up then go to the store for smokes and die in a car crash on the way". Well, let's suppose that instead of tying her up I instead commanded her to come with me. Oh gosh, now she dies too. OK, let's suppose I didn't tie her up and didn't take her with me. So while I'm gone there's a building fire and she's trapped for whatever reasons and dies. Or perhaps neither of us goes and we just watch TV on the couch and an asteroid hits us square on turning us to paste. Life is risk. Success requires risk taking. I refuse to get stampeded by apocryphal stories of some guy in some state where something happened. I am quite comfortable basing my risk decisions on informed facts and, if complicated, formal risk management techniques. I'm certainly way more comfortable with that than "A friend of a friend heard a story where..."

leadership527 -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:28:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Isn't part of risk management assessing the risk and making a decision based on the benefit in regard to the amount of that same risk? Of course. I'm assuming that in this scenario either myself, Carol, or both have some desire to experience this. If we didn't, then why bother? I don't see this as a one true way thing. Your viewpoint is not. Pins' was. You didn't lapse into circular logic and dogma. You just looked at the risk/benefit equation as you sized it up and decided "not worth it"... which is honestly how I'd size it up since I'm not big into bondage and neither is Carol. For us there's no benefit therefor not worth it. But honestly, unless my factual studies turned up something different than I'm expecting, I doubt it'd take much benefit for me to do this because the risks are so low.

Focus50 -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:31:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 ORIGINAL: needlesandpins also, if she died because you left her, could you live with that? Unequivocally yes assuming I'd done due diligence in the actuarial tables. This is exactly why I hate hypotheticals - that the real and permanent loss is not truly factored in; that nothing is actually invested in your somewhat sanitised or sterile reply. Now if I'd done everything I could to save a stranger in distress (a distress NOT of my/our making) and they still failed to survive, then yeah, I could unequivocally live with that after some inevitable soul-searching for future reference. Because ultimately, I have nothing invested in their ongoing existence. And since they are dead despite my best efforts, then the maintenance of my own conscience takes priority - where I can talk in terms of "due diligence" etc. Focus.

needlesandpins -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:56:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Oh wait.. it wasn't apparent to me you REALLY wanted to have this conversation. OK, here goes. a) I did not take anything out of context. My relationship is 24/7. Waking up is just as much a thing as "tying her up". Life is life. I command Carol in pretty much all things and ALL of those command carry risk with them. b) You clearly have no idea what the laws of the land look like. If Carol goes to a DA and says I raped her, then it's going to get prosecuted -- in a lot of states the investigation part is mandatory. Because I am male and she is female there will be a presumption of guilt -- both in the courts and in the press. It'll become a he said, she said sort of thing. Under the best of circumstances (I win the case), my life is a shambles and I move to a new city and new job and try to rebuild a new life. c) YOU assert that it's not possible to do due do diligence and at the same time do this act. That's circular logic. The act is too risky because it's too risky. Instead, let's look at this in formal terms (OK, simplistic formal terms but still).. Likelihood of event occurring Severity of event occuring Detectability of event occurring In this case, the likelihood is very low but the severity is very high and detectability are very low. That is not an ideal setup but it's hardly unmanageable. When you weight all those factors however you do, you also have to compare against alternatives. So, for instance, if the scenario is "I tie Carol up then go to the store for smokes and die in a car crash on the way". Well, let's suppose that instead of tying her up I instead commanded her to come with me. Oh gosh, now she dies too. OK, let's suppose I didn't tie her up and didn't take her with me. So while I'm gone there's a building fire and she's trapped for whatever reasons and dies. Or perhaps neither of us goes and we just watch TV on the couch and an asteroid hits us square on turning us to paste. Life is risk. Success requires risk taking. I refuse to get stampeded by apocryphal stories of some guy in some state where something happened. I am quite comfortable basing my risk decisions on informed facts and, if complicated, formal risk management techniques. I'm certainly way more comfortable with that than "A friend of a friend heard a story where..." ok so you edit your previous post after i've replied to it to include something about MY religion? wtf? nothing in the entirety of any of my posting anywhere on this site have i ever mentioned anything about MY religion. what on earth has religion got to do with any of this? where did you even come up with such a rediculous idea in the first place? as for risk assessment management, yeah i've done that too, it's part of my job looking after vulnerable adults. you assess a situation and the possible outcome. you think that the risk of her dying while you go out and leave her is cool. i don't. you can not equate that risk to sending her out to the shops. if she is in a crash or gets knocked over you were not directly responsible for her well being at that time. others were involved. but if she dies while tied up in your home while you were out that is partly your fault for not being there to care for her. quite frankly you are talking about her like a piece of meat that doesn't matter to you. you leave her tied up so she has no chance of escaping anything it's your fault. if she is free and trapped it's not your fault. very simple really. things can happen out of your control because while you may have full control over her you can't control everthing and everyone. i know exactly what the laws are like in my own country. rape is hearsay unless evidence proves otherwise. to say you live a 24/7 d/s life and therefore you waking up has the same risk to her as tying her up is out of proportion. due diligence means that you have done everything in your power to make sure she is safe at all times. leaving her tied in a place while you are not there means that is impossible. even superman is going to struggle with that. i was hoping for simple enlightenment. instead you bring comparisons and things into this that have no relivence. needles oh, and to make myself very clear for you, i have NO religeous beliefs at all, therefore could never bring them into an argument that wasn't directly about the beliefs of religion or not.

needlesandpins -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 1:58:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Isn't part of risk management assessing the risk and making a decision based on the benefit in regard to the amount of that same risk? Of course. I'm assuming that in this scenario either myself, Carol, or both have some desire to experience this. If we didn't, then why bother? I don't see this as a one true way thing. Your viewpoint is not. Pins' was. You didn't lapse into circular logic and dogma. You just looked at the risk/benefit equation as you sized it up and decided "not worth it"... which is honestly how I'd size it up since I'm not big into bondage and neither is Carol. For us there's no benefit therefor not worth it. But honestly, unless my factual studies turned up something different than I'm expecting, I doubt it'd take much benefit for me to do this because the risks are so low. you seriously need to learn what the words you use actually mean needles

sexyred1 -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 2:03:03 PM)
I cannot imagine someone leaving me alone while in bondage. Seems counterproductive to me. If I am in bondage, then whomever put me there obviously would be doing something to me, so why would they leave?

porcelaine -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 2:10:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse remember there used to be a couple that posted here. She was a 24/7 slave, kept chained all day while he was gone. The way they describe it (if indeed it was to be believed), it did not seem so horrific. She had a very interesting journal. I've often wondered what happened to them. If it's who i think you're referring to they went to another site for a time but are offline. And she had mobility in her chains, but there were obvious limitations. He often spoke of the time it required to get her unattached when necessary. But the shackles provided a comfortable closeness that both really enjoyed. And with that, i'm in agreement with LaT with one huge caveat. i don't believe in customized slavery. In fact, i expect i'm going to be called to do things that may seem strange, uncomfortable, or downright unwanted. If i wanted the latitude to pick and choose i'd be doing something else. i don't believe my partner would leave me alone for a significant duration of time without making wise provisions. While i recognize others may feel and think differently, he owns my ass and at the end of that day that's the path i walk. Namaste, ~porcelaine

DesFIP -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 2:12:19 PM)
He wouldn't do this to me. I panic if I can't hear him in the room. He's careful to make noise or brush me while getting something else. He doesn't just walk out to the kitchen without telling me. Leaving me alone for hours, knowing I will have a panic attack would be damaging to the relationship. Oh and Jeff, tell Carol one teenager is risky enough, because they'll invite another over.

Focus50 -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 2:25:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 If I am in bondage, then whomever put me there obviously would be doing something to me, so why would they leave? I don't see bondage strictly as a means to an end; that tying my sub up means it's "obvious" I'd be doing something else to her.... While teasing and stimulating her etc is fun, I also enjoy bondage in its own right and will often restrain my girl purely for the control factor of her helplessness and dependence on my choices, whim and charity etc. But yeah, why would I leave (the room), indeed.... Focus.

leadership527 -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 2:38:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins i was hoping for simple enlightenment. instead you bring comparisons and things into this that have no relivence. You were hoping to enlighten me. That's not exactly the same as hoping for enlightenment. When you failed, you resorted to dogma in the face of my analytical and scientific approach. Formal Risk Management is in fact a real field of study. I suggest you research it. This reminds me of doing risk management at work. I used to laugh and say, "You know, we could fully secure our enterprise if we cut all the lines in and out of the buildings, fired all the employees, and poured concrete over all the structures. At that point security would be 100% but we wouldn't actually be producing any product."

IronBear -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 2:40:59 PM)
caging a girl and leavibg her alone in never a problem for me. For starters, I will leave a girl caged all night in the next room if I choose to. Secondly I'll make damned sure that her safety is assured at all tiles. She is unchained in a cage allowing her some movement. I wander out for a smoke, coffee, a pee or crap, another (probably Neets) watches the girl via a one way mirror or video/sound surveillance. Thus truely she is never alone just the perception that she is .. In any case she has a "get out of jail free card" Especially over night or for extended cage times she has a key to the door locks within her reach. this allow her toilet breaks too without a leg chain. Now were I to chain or rope bind her, there is no way I will leave he room. Girls have a delightful habit of wriggling which can tighten a safe rope making it a dangerous and thus there are sharpened knives handy for emergencies. All this has nothing to do with risk awareness (well not much) as it has to do with me making choices and decisions as is my right....

crazyml -> RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged (3/28/2011 2:47:59 PM)
As others have pointed out, I guess it would be a balance of risk thing. Hypothetically, I'm with the wonderful LadyPact.. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Let's not get anal here. That's another thread. Leave them tied so that I can use the bathroom? Yes. Gone to another room to get water? Yes. Step out to smoke a cigarette? Yes. I've even left a hotel room and gone down to the lobby to get another person. Yes. (We're talking ten minutes.) Leave the property? No. Although, chaining someone up isn't really my thing. I'd much prefer to tell a sub to remain in one place, and know that she'll be obedient. Chaining her would feel - to me - as if I was lacking in confidence in both her, and myself. So... yes, I've had sub partners in virtual/mental bondage, and I've left the house, confident that she'd remain standing in the corner and equally confident that if a fire broke out that she'd have the wit to figure out that in that kinda situation I'd probably prefer her to leave the corner and get her ass out of there. And sure, the second she heard the door close she could have sat back on the sofa ready to leap back into place when she heard my footsteps on the gravel drive... but ya know... and I could well be deluding myself, but... with all the subs that I've done this kind of thing with... I knew.

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