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I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 8:57:36 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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From: The dog house
Status: offline 		A few weeks ago Hanners, Suze and I were talking about space and time <yes, we do talk about some strange things>, and Hanners mentioned that she had heard some scientist on the radio talking about how spacetime was curved. That struck me as interesting and significant idea, so it stuck in my head. Then, on this thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_3800352/tm.htm somebody asked what had happened before the Big Bang and I had this sudden crazy idea.

We know that the universe is expanding, and if you travel away from a point along a curved path, you will eventually end up where you began. So maybe, the universe expands until it curves back in on itself and collapses into the singularity thus causing a new Big Bang. That’s not my crazy idea; I’ve heard that idea before somewhere or other.

My idea is that if time is curved as well, then the universe will eventually come around to when it began as well. So what was before the Big Bang was the universe. Not a different universe, but this one. There is only one Big Bang, only one universe, happening over and over again on a loop. Sort of like a cosmic Groundhog Day

This brings up all sorts of interesting ideas and questions, like “Does it repeat itself exactly, or is it different each time?” and “Have I existed before?”

Now you know why I don’t need to do drugs.

So, what do you think about my crazy idea?
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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 8:59:39 PM   
Kaliko


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Status: offline 		Scientists are now questioning whether time exists at all.

I can't keep up.

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:16:37 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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Status: offline 		Well if time is a loop, then it sort of doesn't exist.

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:18:17 PM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Well if time is a loop, then it sort of doesn't exist.


But then how can it loop if it doesn't exist?



...ouch...brain cramp.

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:20:05 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

...ouch...brain cramp.
LOL! Exercise that brain!

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:26:57 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		a loop exists, it just has no end.

there's a scientist who's name i can't remember who theorizes that our perception of time is just how our brain arranges "snapshots" of the present. he doesn't believe time really exists, we just create it in our minds to make sense of things.
then there are those who believe time exists and possibly has more dimensions.

traveling on a curved path doesn't guarantee that you'll return to your point of origin, unless you're on a very specific, constant curve. just a "curve" isn't specific enough, though.

lately, i've been enjoying reading about multiverse theories. through the wormhole had a great segment on the various theories a while back. there are a group of scientists who were actually working independently of each other and came to the same conclusions mathematically, and by examining images of the cosmic microwave background, and they believe there's another universe outside of this one, exerting gravity on it. =p that's just so bananas. i just kinda like to daydream about what those other universes might be like.


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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:39:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

a loop exists, it just has no end.

there's a scientist who's name i can't remember who theorizes that our perception of time is just how our brain arranges "snapshots" of the present. he doesn't believe time really exists, we just create it in our minds to make sense of things.
then there are those who believe time exists and possibly has more dimensions.

traveling on a curved path doesn't guarantee that you'll return to your point of origin, unless you're on a very specific, constant curve. just a "curve" isn't specific enough, though.

lately, i've been enjoying reading about multiverse theories. through the wormhole had a great segment on the various theories a while back. there are a group of scientists who were actually working independently of each other and came to the same conclusions mathematically, and by examining images of the cosmic microwave background, and they believe there's another universe outside of this one, exerting gravity on it. =p that's just so bananas. i just kinda like to daydream about what those other universes might be like.



Your a bit confused. Time IS a dimension in your second group of scientists, which is the vast majority of them. There arent additional dimensions of time.

The "arrangement of snapshots" idea is more likely from a philosopher than a scientist. It is an extension of Einsteins demonstration that time is relative, and if it is then past present and future could exist simultaneously. But if they do exist simultaneously why do we perceive ourselves as moving along in time. They then liken it to a movie...which is a series of snapshots that give the illusion of motion.


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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:45:12 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

Your a bit confused. Time IS a dimension in your second group of scientists, which is the vast majority of them. There arent additional dimensions of time.

The "arrangement of snapshots" idea is more likely from a philosopher than a scientist. It is an extension of Einsteins demonstration that time is relative, and if it is then past present and future could exist simultaneously. But if they do exist simultaneously why do we perceive ourselves as moving along in time. They then liken it to a movie...which is a series of snapshots that give the illusion of motion.


She's talking about the show with Morgan Freeman (Through the Wormhole) I think. I saw the episode she's referring to. He wasn't a philosopher. There are a number of "new" theories and I mean a NUMBER of them.


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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:45:42 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather



My idea is that if time is curved as well, then the universe will eventually come around to when it began as well. So what was before the Big Bang was the universe. Not a different universe, but this one. There is only one Big Bang, only one universe, happening over and over again on a loop. Sort of like a cosmic Groundhog Day



The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.


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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:46:19 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		granted, i haven't read much on the ideas about time with more dimensions, but it was briefly mentioned on through the wormhole. =p time itself is a dimension as we perceive it, yeah, but they're talking about time itself having more dimensions. i'll have to look it up...

http://www.physorg.com/news98468776.html
http://www.amazon.com/Extra-Dimensions-Space-Multiversal-Journeys/dp/0387776370
well there's one mention i found on google of a similar theory; a theory of time with two dimensions, not just one.
so no, i'm not confused.

the time=snapshots person i'm talking about was a mathematician -- i probably shouldn't have said scientist, i guess. i think sometimes mathematicians get too attached to their formulas, and assume that the formula will accurately reflect reality, when it may not.


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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 9:50:31 PM   
Unkreative


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Status: offline 		Is it still déjà vu if you really have done it before?

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 10:26:34 PM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Unkreative

Is it still déjà vu if you really have done it before?


Yes, because déjà vu is about the feeling of having done it before. Whether or not you've done it doesn't detract from that feeling.

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 10:30:37 PM   
Unkreative


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Unkreative

Is it still déjà vu if you really have done it before?


Yes, because déjà vu is about the feeling of having done it before. Whether or not you've done it doesn't detract from that feeling.


Hmm, good point.

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 11:10:38 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		speaking of deja vu, here's a neato article about the three different types -- http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~mdlee/dejavu.htm

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/7/2011 11:44:42 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Time doesn't exist, neither does matter. This brings into question where all this space comes from, but you see I have thought beyond that.

Matter is only energy, it really doesn't ecast. Now with that established, we can't say matter exists and space is the lack of matter, so tell me how the fuck that exists.

But we are in space so it must exist, but even matter dosn't exist so ..............

Now you might see the REAL FUCKING PROBLEM.

T^T

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/8/2011 12:11:20 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

Now you might see the REAL FUCKING PROBLEM.
you shouldn't have had that 2nd bottle of jack?

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/8/2011 7:13:33 AM   
MasterG2kTR


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Status: offline 		First, the issue of "Time".....it doesn't exist. Time is a man made invention that simply keeps everything from happening all at once.

As for Time (if it exists) and/or Space, traveling along a curve....if it travels along a parabolic curve it will never come back to where it began. Thus the mystery gets a little deeper in ponderance.

And finally, Space (as we conceive it) is not a void but is actually completely filled with a substance known as dark matter. Dark matter is the driving force causing the expansion of the universe.

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/8/2011 8:20:10 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		exactly MasterG2kTR - a parabolic or hyperbolic curve never returns to its point of origin, but it's a curve nonetheless. an ellipse would, but that's a specific type of curve, and whose to say the universe is traveling in an ellipse, if it's even traveling at all? it's expanding, sure, but is it moving as a whole?

OH!! the other snazzy thing pointed out by the scientists on through the wormhole was that the universe isn't just expanding but that it seems everything (at least everything visible) is moving to one side as well; that's part of how they concluded there could be something external exerting gravitational force on the universe. i want to know what! ^_^ (but who's to say gravity even works the same way outside of our universe? maybe whatever's out there is doing something else altogether?)

one thing i love most about that show is that it reeeaally inspires you to go look for more information. few television shows really do that anymore.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 8/8/2011 8:21:40 AM >

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/8/2011 8:22:52 AM   
0ldhen


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I don't know.....and without going through a lot of technical stuff.....I've always imagined time to flow along sort of a Moebius strip.

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RE: I had a crazy idea - 8/8/2011 9:04:33 AM   
MasterG2kTR


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Status: offline 		All right I'll go really deep on all of you with a truly "crazy idea"....

You all (should) have some idea of what an atom looks like that has neutrons, electrons, and protons orbiting about it's nucleus.....right?!! Well when you look at more recent space photos (from Hubble in particular) and see all the other galaxies out there it looks kind of like an atom. What if the universe (as we know it) is nothing more than an atom or possibly a cell of some type inside a another life-form of unimaginable proportions?

To break it down in simple terms....what if an atom is actually a microcosmic universe in itself? There could be infinitesimally microscopic creatures thinking the same things we are right now.

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