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RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 12:26:02 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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And once again I agree with you... Sort of. Yup, women in other parts of the world have even bigger problems. If I cared about them as much as I care about those more local to me then I would have had Carol vote green also. But I don't. My personal assessment is that the threat here at home was real enough to require a response. If the Republicans keep ratcheting it up then I'll need to DO something more than voting. That's going to be a problem since I dare not contribute to a feminist org but maybe I can find something more focused that wont use my time and money against me.

And you know what? I'm watching the feminists pretty closely to and if they keep up with their shit then yes, I also will need to DO something exactly as I suggested you should. But I'm kind of hoping that can wait because right now I'm more interested in stopping the republocrats. If the Obamas and Romneys of the world arent stopped then we are all slaves.

Insofar as why not ask the women that same question... I do. But honestly they benefit from quite a few decades of organizational work that us men just don't have so their problem is easier. That's just the way it is. Who, exactly, are you hoping to fix this for you?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 21

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 12:27:06 AM

naughtynick81

Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

Hey what do you think of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZgzCHBJcfo&feature=relmfu

And this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rkl_oLSKQc

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 22

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 12:29:13 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Where did I deny any of those things happening? I had a brother who was abused by his wife. You are preaching to the choir.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 23

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 12:30:32 AM

naughtynick81

Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
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quote:

A man leaves because of abuse, he typically does not take the children and crashes on a buddies couch. A woman leaves and the kids go with her. How long will a friend put her, and her kids, up? Some for a long time. Some have no where else to go.

Who gets favored in child custody again?

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 24

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 12:33:48 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
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Women... and since women are often the battered spouse... but not always.... women get custody. It also depends on the income. How many women have lost their children simply because the man has the money?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 25

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 12:34:45 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

Apparently, the UN does.

http://www.un.org/en/events/endviolenceday/2012/sgmessage.shtml

A call to end the violence against women is nowhere near the same thing as saying there is no violence against men.

Fail.

quote:

Or how about

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/10/25/3885763/christine-vendel-domestic-violence.html

A Women's shelter turning away men does not mean men aren't also abused.

Fail.

I'll ask again since you seem unable to hit the mark. Did anyone here claim it doesn't happen? Who here is ignoring it?

_____________________________

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(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 26

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 12:41:15 AM

naughtynick81

Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

A call to end the violence against women is nowhere near the same thing as saying there is no violence against men.

Showing awareness and making a stance towards violence against women and men not included is exactly how I said it. What more do you want?

quote:

A Women's shelter turning away men does not mean men aren't also abused.

Hmm, Ok. Looks like the DV shelter industry is swimming in funds to the point where they can open a shelter for women and their animals. Are you an abused woman? Do you have Horses? No problem, we will shelter and feed all of you.

Meanwhile abused men live on the streets and have their lives torn to shreds by the government and system they paid into for so long.

Further proof that society considers men to be disposable. If a fucking cat has more social services available to it, what does that say about the state of men in regards to social services? Pay into the system and if you need assistance, go fuck yourself.

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 27

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 12:46:14 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Hmm, Ok. Looks like the DV shelter industry is swimming in funds to the point where they can open a shelter for women and their animals. Are you an abused woman? Do you have Horses? No problem, we will shelter and feed all of you.

Swimming in funds? You must have missed all the attempts to cut off funding for DV shelters this past election cycle. Time to come out from under your rock. And get off the sarcastic kick... no shelter is going to house a horse.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 28

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 1:18:51 AM

naughtynick81

Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

Let's relax for a while from this truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2bE6jzACFQ

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 29

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 3:33:23 AM

naughtynick81

Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

How many men's shelters are there in Brisbane, amaidiamond?

(in reply to amaidiamond)

Post #: 30

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 3:58:50 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

Hang on!

Isn´t it a little ironic that this consumes so much hot air on a BDSM website?

Is there equality in a BDSM relationship? Not if its more than just play time there ain´t.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 31

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 3:59:07 AM

amaidiamond

Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

How many men's shelters are there in Brisbane, amaidiamond?

From a quick google quite a few ;) Ozcare run rather a lot for men in "crisis"...

So there is a great place for you to start with helping out and actually making a difference.

And you know, maybe you could also look into outreach work or researching what it takes to start an issue specific shelter local to you...

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation... I can find the way all by myself!

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 32

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 4:12:44 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Why dont you organise to start one???
or get in touch and tell them that you want to start to organise one, that the need is there .

http://www.psychology.org.au/inpsych/psychological_shelter/

The last time you went on this ranting I gave you a number of places to start with.... however you just bitched.
DO you know HOW domestic violence shelters came about???
Women and men organised for it..it didnt just spring out of nothing.
But you have to start in your own community, not just a kink site.
Use your anger to get something good out of it.
You wanna help stop violence, take part.
From little acorns mighty oaks do grow.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 33

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 4:14:13 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

How many men's shelters are there in Brisbane, amaidiamond?

From a quick google quite a few ;) Ozcare run rather a lot for men in "crisis"...

So there is a great place for you to start with helping out and actually making a difference.

And you know, maybe you could also look into outreach work or researching what it takes to start an issue specific shelter local to you...

smilesssssssss at you:)

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to amaidiamond)

Post #: 34

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 4:38:23 AM

Zonie63

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

And once again I agree with you... Sort of. Yup, women in other parts of the world have even bigger problems. If I cared about them as much as I care about those more local to me then I would have had Carol vote green also. But I don't. My personal assessment is that the threat here at home was real enough to require a response. If the Republicans keep ratcheting it up then I'll need to DO something more than voting. That's going to be a problem since I dare not contribute to a feminist org but maybe I can find something more focused that wont use my time and money against me.

And you know what? I'm watching the feminists pretty closely to and if they keep up with their shit then yes, I also will need to DO something exactly as I suggested you should. But I'm kind of hoping that can wait because right now I'm more interested in stopping the republocrats. If the Obamas and Romneys of the world arent stopped then we are all slaves.

Insofar as why not ask the women that same question... I do. But honestly they benefit from quite a few decades of organizational work that us men just don't have so their problem is easier. That's just the way it is. Who, exactly, are you hoping to fix this for you?

I tend to agree with the OP that there are double standards in society in this regard, but I also agree with you that there are no easy answers or quick fixes.

If a man is raped or abused, then society still recognizes his right to seek justice. There have also been quite a few stories about adult women being charged with statutory rape for having sex with underage boys. The problem is being addressed and being dealt with on a societal level, but there are a lot of other problems to deal with as well. We don't even have any money to fix the potholes in our streets, and money earmarked to social services (including funding for men's shelters) is in short supply. There are shelters for men who are homeless, alcoholics, addicts - but they may not be suitable for victims of domestic violence who might have kids with them. And even then, those shelters can't even accommodate the current population.

But since the majority of lawmakers and politicians (who decide where public money should go) are men, then it seems that we men have other priorities.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 35

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 6:07:47 AM

MstSebastian

Posts: 169
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

Not that I claim no level headed female, feminist, liberal, democrat exist. But to cancel out "female" alone, people with such political aspects, many to most seem totally blind to other sides of the story due to politically correct rules.

I have to disagree. It isn't political correctness that makes most women blind to the issues affecting men, just as it isn't political correctness that makes so many men blind to the issues affecting women. The reality is far simpler than that: Men and women, both, are more affected, and thus become more aware, of certain issues. It is hard to see the other side of the story when that side doesn't personally impact you. Add to this the social expectation for men to "be a man, take it on the chin, walk it off, don't cry about it," and we have generations of men who are culturally raised to internalize their problems. The lack of awareness of men's issues has nothing to do with women, and everything to do with the way men are socially conditioned to respond to those issues.

I have dedicated my career to the research and exploration of issues surrounding masculinity, male sexual development, and the impact that societal roles and expectations have on men. And, in that career, I can tell you that it isn't women, so much as it is men, who are ultimately the cause of men's issues being pushed to the side. In so many cases, in so many places, men don't come forward about rape because they are afraid of other men judging them harshly, questioning their masculinity.

It takes work and dedication by people who want the social stigma surrounding men discussing these issues for it to change. Don't blame women, it isn't their fault; nor is it the fault of feminisim (which, BTW, is a blanket term encompassing a whole litany of feminist perspectives, such as third wave feminism, radical feminism, black liberation feminism, lesbian feminism, etc). It is men, our social conditioning, the pressure we put on one another to "act like a man" that is, ultimately, what needs to be combated if we are to change things.

_____________________________

The greatest gift a person can give is the gift of their willing submission. It is a gift more precious than gold and more fragile than glass. It is my responsibility to make sure that, every day, I am worthy of that gift.

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 36

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 6:09:54 AM

Aderious511

Posts: 58
Joined: 5/11/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Look Nick. I agree that in the feminists efforts to fix some ugly problems we, as a society, didn't get everything right. I agree that it's time to start thinking about humanism not feminism. But that doesn't change the problems women still have in this world. You know... That whole war on women thing is just getting started and that is right now this instant not some historical fact. I had Carol vote Demcratic for just that reason even though I voted green and would toss Obama in prison if I could.

I also agree that most women have no clue what's going wrong for men and don't really want to know. It's a lot like the early days of feminism. Good on you for seeing the problem. But what are you DOING about it? These posts come off rather whiny. Just like all such things its going to take a change in society's viewpoints and that starts with raising awareness. That takes a movement. There are already several organized groups going. Maybe try joining one and actively participating? You could start a local chapter of something.

In the mean time, you cannot escape the repressive legal landscape but at the personal level you can do as I do and choose your female friends carefully. Just don't get married without excellent legal advice and you should do fine... As I do.

Feminism has not "fixed" a single thing in society. To the contrary, It has screwed up Western society massively and possibly irrevocably. It is the death knell for the West and for the White race.

"war on women"

I love it. Living in the most matriarchal, feminist nation in the history of the world. Yet apparently there is a "war on wimmin" going on.

No amount of "legal advice" is going to save a man from divorce, bankruptcy and the state-enabled kidnapping of his children if his Western wife decides to call it quits. Which she most likely will. And this state of affairs is a direct result of your cherished "feminism".

< Message edited by Aderious511 -- 11/28/2012 6:11:02 AM >

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 37

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 6:21:50 AM

immoral

Posts: 99
Joined: 6/9/2006
Status: offline

no one ever fixed a thing by just sitting and saying someone should do something
some time
now is the time
you are the person
do something

(in reply to Aderious511)

Post #: 38

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 7:32:53 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstSebastian

I have to disagree. It isn't political correctness that makes most women blind to the issues affecting men, just as it isn't political correctness that makes so many men blind to the issues affecting women.

Careful, MstSebastian. You very nearly said that a given problem in society is caused by those at the top - instead of encouraging all those in society who are having problems to fight each other. That would never do.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MstSebastian)

Post #: 39

RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 7:34:26 AM

MstSebastian

Posts: 169
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstSebastian

I have to disagree. It isn't political correctness that makes most women blind to the issues affecting men, just as it isn't political correctness that makes so many men blind to the issues affecting women.

Careful, MstSebastian. You very nearly said that a given problem in society is caused by those at the top - instead of encouraging all those in society who are having problems to fight each other. That would never do.

Actually, I don't think I very nearly said anything of the sort.

_____________________________

The greatest gift a person can give is the gift of their willing submission. It is a gift more precious than gold and more fragile than glass. It is my responsibility to make sure that, every day, I am worthy of that gift.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 40

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