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RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 7:40:47 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstSebastian
Actually, I don't think I very nearly said anything of the sort.


OK, well, I stand corrected.

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(in reply to MstSebastian)
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RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 8:31:17 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

But that doesn't change the problems women still have in this world.


No denial about women having problems. I have no problem with that being raised to awareness. What I do have a problem with is that one gender is raised and not the other in equal consideration.


Women formed organizations to raise awareness about women getting abused and raped, in order to try and protect themselves. If men want to form an organization to raise awareness about men getting abused and raped in order to protect themselves, they are more than free to do so.

It's a worthy cause. Stop whining and go out and do something about it.

(in reply to naughtynick81)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 8:40:54 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I have to disagree. It isn't political correctness that makes most women blind to the issues affecting men, just as it isn't political correctness that makes so many men blind to the issues affecting women.


You assume wrong. Women, at least women here, aren't blind. Nor are women, here, blind to the help they have received from men in regards to the abuse issue towards women.

We have had this discussion ad nauseam on these boards, thread after thread. There is always some man complaining that enough isnt being done for men while women get help hand over fist. Each time the man complaining is asked what HE has done to help men... each time we get no response.

quote:

feminisim (which, BTW, is a blanket term encompassing a whole litany of feminist perspectives, such as third wave feminism, radical feminism, black liberation feminism, lesbian feminism, etc).


Yet that is not the context he, or many other men, use that term. Its become interchangeable for "women" and its a crock.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MstSebastian)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:11:10 AM   
MstSebastian


Posts: 169
Joined: 3/19/2011
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quote:


Again, I have to disagree. Many men are not blind because many deal with the fall out of a woman having been raped/abused. That is a level of personal experience. The same with women.

True. I think, at this point, we are just down to a semantic discussion over how many of each sex are blind to the issues facing the opposite sex. But, and please correct me if I am mistaken, I do think we can both agree that there are men and women in the world who don't recognize the issues that affect the opposite sex.

quote:


Thank you for recognizing that.

You're welcome.


_____________________________

The greatest gift a person can give is the gift of their willing submission. It is a gift more precious than gold and more fragile than glass. It is my responsibility to make sure that, every day, I am worthy of that gift.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:16:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

But, and please correct me if I am mistaken, I do think we can both agree that there are men and women in the world who don't recognize the issues that affect the opposite sex.


I do agree... and we have ample evidence of such on this thread alone.

My younger brother was abused by his first wife... and the family hated her with a passion. But he loved her, intensely. When she passed away, his life ended. He soon followed her to the grave. They left behind a bewildered, and angry, child, for the family to take care of.

So, yes, we saw the abuse from the other side. But we were helpless to stop it. As we would have been had this been a woman in such a relationship who refused to leave.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MstSebastian)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:26:58 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

Attention whore....for having a politically incorrect opinion. Censor it at all cost, fuck democracy.





What gave you the impression that the USA (or this site) are democracies?

_____________________________

No longer searching -- found my one and only right here on CM


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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:29:11 AM   
VideoAdminTheta


Posts: 3967
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		I have removed a full page of posts that had to be removed because of responding to and quoting a post that required removal. Please remember that we do not make personal attacks on other members, attack the kink of another or discriminate against people based on their sexual choices. You may keep those opinions to yourself because if they are posted here, they will be removed. Anyone responding to them must be removed as well.

An added bit of information. If you are going to make reference to children, please do not put them in a sentence or paragraph that include comparing them to what adults do. I am putting that mildly, but I think you will understand.

Opinions and debate may get heated, but keep things within TOS and guidelines please.

Thank you

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:30:00 AM   
MstSebastian


Posts: 169
Joined: 3/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I have to disagree. It isn't political correctness that makes most women blind to the issues affecting men, just as it isn't political correctness that makes so many men blind to the issues affecting women.


You assume wrong. Women, at least women here, aren't blind. Nor are women, here, blind to the help they have received from men in regards to the abuse issue towards women.

We have had this discussion ad nauseam on these boards, thread after thread. There is always some man complaining that enough isnt being done for men while women get help hand over fist. Each time the man complaining is asked what HE has done to help men... each time we get no response.

quote:

feminisim (which, BTW, is a blanket term encompassing a whole litany of feminist perspectives, such as third wave feminism, radical feminism, black liberation feminism, lesbian feminism, etc).


Yet that is not the context he, or many other men, use that term. Its become interchangeable for "women" and its a crock.

Well, we seem to have lost our excellent conversation on the nature of lumping the various schools of feminist theory together, and why that happens...as well as our agreement that, no matter how many one personally sees, that there are men and women in the world who are blind to issues facing the opposite sex.

That makes me sad. I thought it was a very productive conversation.



(EDIT: Though, now reading what Theta just posted, I understand why our conversation got lost in the purge. Sad, but understandable).

< Message edited by MstSebastian -- 11/28/2012 9:31:10 AM >

_____________________________

The greatest gift a person can give is the gift of their willing submission. It is a gift more precious than gold and more fragile than glass. It is my responsibility to make sure that, every day, I am worthy of that gift.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:33:09 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
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From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
We have had this discussion ad nauseam on these boards, thread after thread. There is always some man complaining that enough isnt being done for men while women get help hand over fist. Each time the man complaining is asked what HE has done to help men... each time we get no response.

This does not match my experience and I'd like to believe I'm not the whiner, do-nothing, type. Generally I believe that women are pretty much totally blind to the issues going on. I don't really fault them. That's what "raising awareness" is all about and I think any movement needs to do it.

At least in my mind these issues are serious enough that I need to warn my son who is planning on getting married that if he does he is turning his life over to the woman he marries so she'd damned well better be a woman of honor... enough so that even when she is angry at him in the middle of a divorce she will walk the high road despite what every lawyer and judge in the US will tell her is appropriate and fair. Given how pro-marriage and pro-relationship I am, I find that unfortunate to say the least.

That all being said, yeah... there's a lot of whiners out there and they are nothing but noise in the system.... the "sheeple" waiting for someone to lead them to some new greener pasture.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:36:03 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

This does not match my experience and I'd like to believe I'm not the whiner, do-nothing, type. Generally I believe that women are pretty much totally blind to the issues going on. I don't really fault them. That's what "raising awareness" is all about and I think any movement needs to do it.


No, you are not in the mentioned group, not by a long shot.

But, my assessment still stands. When asked what they are doing about it, all I see is silence.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:42:29 AM   
VideoAdminTheta


Posts: 3967
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		MstSebastian, I am sorry, that was my mistake and the post has been restored. I thought your post included one I had to remove. I was trying to hurry. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

I will slow down now and have a cup of coffee!

Okay corrected my on=one. See ya after my coffee! lol (No that wasn't a threat!)

< Message edited by VideoAdminTheta -- 11/28/2012 9:46:04 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:45:36 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Theta works hard to be fair. Must have been something in there we both missed.

But, yes, it is sad they are gone. Rarely do we have such agreements on these types of threads that start off as a battle ground "between the sexes".

I consider myself a feminist in that I believe women should have the same choices as men. Does that mean I want those choices for myself? lol

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MstSebastian)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:47:17 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		But the point is, it IS YOUR choice, and to be the slave of a man, or to be president of the united fuckin states, it is YOUR choice, and that is what feminism is really about, because nobody (and I mean both women AND men) wants to see a pretty bra burned. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:47:24 AM   
VideoAdminTheta


Posts: 3967
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		Nope, my mistake.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:49:04 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		It really bugs me when people assume the role of being powerless. LONG before the web people were out there fallicitating change. If you want change you must fight for it. You must be vocal. You must put the word out there and gather others who share your views. You must stand up for your beliefs where people might disagree, and continue to present your views. Do you think that "femininists" did this by osmosis? They worked for change. If men are being raped and I know they are, or molested and I know they are, then they have to get the courage to come forward and make their numbers known, JUST as females made their voices heard for decades. Nothing is quick when you are fighting for your rights. Nor is it easy.
But it is worth it.
If you have issues with these things then take up a cause that is real, with people who have been affected with damage from such things. Change only comes when numbers demand it. Stand up. Bring others and don't back down. That is what we did. That is what I did.
And for the record most of us who have been raped know it is not strictly a male to female crime. I had also been molested by my own sex prior to the rape by a male. And I know some men who have been raped and came forward, even facing ridicule. It is just something that is going to happen and you have to be prepared for the disbelief. Back when I was raped it was assumed it was because of what we wore. My own mother held that belief until I was 30 and finally told her about the attack. Rape was not mentioned in polite society. Change happened only because our numbers demanded it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

But to claim that ONLY women matter.... dont whine... get off your ass from the keyboard and do something about it! (directed towards the writer and no one here)


You're asking the average powerless male here.

As if I have power over the UN

http://www.un.org/en/events/endviolenceday/2012/sgmessage.shtml

yeah like an equivalent exist for males.

I as a male also has power over google. So just because I'm a male, don't think I can tell them what to do.

http://i.imgur.com/Itp2r.png





< Message edited by Missokyst -- 11/28/2012 9:51:23 AM >

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to naughtynick81)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:49:24 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But the point is, it IS YOUR choice, and to be the slave of a man, or to be president of the united fuckin states, it is YOUR choice, and that is what feminism is really about, because nobody (and I mean both women AND men) wants to see a pretty bra burned. 


Yes, that is my choice. But I dont choose to go to the front line to fight. Other women may. I dont choose to use a man's bathroom, but other women may. Too many assume that, because I support women in these types of choices, they are choices I should make for myself.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:54:51 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		They also fight, who only kneel and suck.....

That's the corrollary to my Winston Churchill misquote.

(had to fix spelling since I used Winnie in the sentence, and nobody wants that fat bastard rolling in his grave).

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/28/2012 9:56:21 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 9:56:05 AM   
MstSebastian


Posts: 169
Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline 		Oh, yes, she does work hard! I have no issues with the mods here. As far as I've witnessed, they do an excellent job. (To Theta: No worries, it happens! Thank you for restoring my post )

Back to feminism...

I think what you said is ultimately the key point to so many schools of feminist theory. It isn't about one sex or another having superiority. It is about both sexes having equity of choice. Equality isn't reached when we have equal representations of men and women in all avenues of our society. It is reached when we have equal OPPORTUNITY for that representation to occur.

In the end, there will be areas in our world in which men or women are more dominant in number (such as in various business fields and industries). But, so long as that unbalance comes from the personal choices of each person on whether or not to enter the field, and not because of some bias or sexism against one sex or another, then the disparity is simply a natural reaction to the choice each person has made for what is right for them in their lives.

_____________________________

The greatest gift a person can give is the gift of their willing submission. It is a gift more precious than gold and more fragile than glass. It is my responsibility to make sure that, every day, I am worthy of that gift.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 10:06:04 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Are men blocked from certain industries? I guess it depends on how you view it. Separate but equal comes to mind in some situations, such as a strip club. It really goads me that men are blocked from some serving positions at restaurants because of the uniforms, but it is what it is. And the same still exists in reverse, though its not always as obvious.

As a server, I always enjoy the male servers being around. Not only for security when leaving late at night, but they often lend a calming influence during a hectic night. And in nursing, having men around was always a bonus as nurses, aids, lab techs, ect ect ect. Its great to realize how far we have come... and how far we still have to go.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MstSebastian)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Gender Roles: Men, Women, And Rape - 11/28/2012 10:06:28 AM   
VideoAdminChi


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

Is it a personal attack if it's true?


The truth is not a defense to personal attacks.

Am locking thread for additional cleanup.

ETA: This thread has reached the maximum of personal attacks and will stay locked. As a reminder, do not make personal attacks and do not make other posters the topic. Consider using the Hide button when necessary.

< Message edited by VideoAdminChi -- 11/28/2012 10:50:17 AM >

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 60
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