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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 3:31:16 AM

eulero83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Or maybe the soul is contained within the sperm.

Bloody hell, don't say that or the Catholics will doom me to hell for beating off.
OOPS, they already do.

and also for using any kind of anticonceptional, when having sex you always have to put any effort in gettin your mate pregnant, but no catholic is doomed to hell that's what confession is made for!

catholic point of view

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 3:34:39 AM

MissShey

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"An exercise in logic" applied to religious beliefs...

The definition of pointlessness.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 3:41:59 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

That would require one soul per sperm, wouldn't it? (Thus Onan's sin).

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

You left of:

D. When a twin's egg is 'ensouled' it happens with 2 souls, and that is why the egg later splits into two different people.

Nope, identical twins doesn't get impregnated by two sperms...
It's one sperm and one egg that later splits.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 4/7/2013 3:43:25 AM >

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 4:53:25 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
D. Embryo A received his soul at the time of conception and Embryo B received his soul at the time he fissioned off from Embryo A since that was when Embryo B’s body came into existence.

If that is true, then ensoulment doesn't necessarily occur at the moment of conception.

Sure it did. In the beginning (

) there was only one fertilized egg (sticking with the identical twin assumption). That means, one soul. For whatever reason, the growing glob of cells split into two. That is the first time there was 2 and not just one. If the glob that seceded gets a soul as soon as it secedes, there is no time in which there is a glob of cells isn't paired to a soul. At conception, there was only one.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 10:10:06 AM

GotSteel

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What does a soul do?

Are people going to spend their afterlives as the ghosts of single celled organisms?

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 10:34:11 AM

UllrsIshtar

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I personally believe that what we call a soul is just another form/type of energy not yet understood. After all, we have a strong indication that life is more than a mere sum of matter and traditional energy, considering how hard it's been to replicate. Seeing that energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed, neither can soul/life energy. At death, it merely transfers into another state/form, and when it attaches to a new baby/fetus it just got transferred from another state form. I don't believe that any type of personal attributes are attached to this energy though. Your self is something that's limited to this lifetime and body.

It how I personally feel about things, but I'm not especially attached to that view. If somebody proves me wrong tomorrow I don't much care... I think life's too short to spend much time wondering about what's beyond it. I'll find out when I get there... if I do. Right now, I'm far too busy with what's right here and right now to worry about it.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 1:47:59 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Gotta do that devil's advocate thing again.

What about those who are supposed to split but dont? I dont mean joined twins, but people who are born with part of a twin still inside them.

fetus in fetu

.....http://www.payvand.com/news/11/jan/1306.html (a graphic photo so open with that knowledge)...

I soooo very much wish I hadn't clicked on that.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 1:53:45 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

.............Today, 18 years later, it's still horrifying.

And today, I still hate myself for what I (agreed to) 30 some years ago.

There is a soul.

It begins at birth.

I'm so sorry for your loss.
I believe the soul enters the body at birth, too.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 3:48:39 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
What does a soul do?
Are people going to spend their afterlives as the ghosts of single celled organisms?

No idea. But, I'll make a deal with you. If I die before you, I'll come back just to let you know, as long as you'll do the same for me, if you die first. Deal?

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 3:50:50 PM

Powergamz1

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OK, then scratch the Onan thing... still survival of the fittest soul/sperm combo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

That would require one soul per sperm, wouldn't it? (Thus Onan's sin).

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

You left of:

D. When a twin's egg is 'ensouled' it happens with 2 souls, and that is why the egg later splits into two different people.

Nope, identical twins doesn't get impregnated by two sperms...
It's one sperm and one egg that later splits.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 3:52:01 PM

Powergamz1

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Don't go to extremes... just turn back at the light.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
What does a soul do?
Are people going to spend their afterlives as the ghosts of single celled organisms?

No idea. But, I'll make a deal with you. If I die before you, I'll come back just to let you know, as long as you'll do the same for me, if you die first. Deal?

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 6:11:44 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I personally believe that what we call a soul is just another form/type of energy not yet understood.

My question isn't what is it. I'm asking what is it supposed to do?

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
After all, we have a strong indication that life is more than a mere sum of matter and traditional energy, considering how hard it's been to replicate.

It's not the sum it's the arrangement that's the important part. Even my wristwatch is more than the sum of it's parts, how those parts are put together really matters. But that doesn't mean it has a soul. We are at the point in creating technology where we can make things too complex and intricate for another company to be able to reverse engineer. That complexity in no way means that our inventions are possessed by some mysterious ghost spooky energy.

Furthermore we actually have strong, detailed indications about how life works and they don't involve ghosts: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/scientists-create-first-self-replicating-synthetic-life/

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Seeing that energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed, neither can soul/life energy. At death, it merely transfers into another state/form, and when it attaches to a new baby/fetus it just got transferred from another state form. I don't believe that any type of personal attributes are attached to this energy though. Your self is something that's limited to this lifetime and body.

Then what's the point? I get why people hoping for eternal existence would cling to the superstition, but why would anyone else? It seems vestigial at that point, what's it even supposed to do?

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 6:21:31 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
There is a soul.

It begins at birth.

Nope.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 7:18:02 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

I personally believe that what we call a soul is just another form/type of energy not yet understood.

My question isn't what is it. I'm asking what is it supposed to do?

Your question presupposes that it's supposed to "do" something. What, precisely, is your basis for this notion?

K.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 8:11:23 PM

littlewonder

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What is a soul?

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/7/2013 8:30:14 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

What is a soul?

The Chassidic masters speak of two distinct souls that vitalize the human being: an "Animal Soul" and a "G-dly Soul."

This is getting complicated now!

K.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/8/2013 7:00:12 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
What does a soul do?
Are people going to spend their afterlives as the ghosts of single celled organisms?

No idea. But, I'll make a deal with you. If I die before you, I'll come back just to let you know, as long as you'll do the same for me, if you die first. Deal?

If you die before I do, I ain't comin to your funeral, cuz it is a damn sure sight, you aint comin to mine.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/9/2013 8:10:02 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
What is a soul?

"In truth, not just the human being, but also every created entity possesses a "soul." Animals have souls, as do plants and even inanimate objects; every blade of grass has a soul, and every grain of sand."

Cue Monty Python's every sperm is sacred.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/9/2013 9:03:13 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

"In truth, not just the human being, but also every created entity possesses a "soul." Animals have souls, as do plants and even inanimate objects; every blade of grass has a soul, and every grain of sand."

Cue Monty Python's every sperm is sacred.

Many ancient traditions have held that the Universe is divine, that everything in it is sacred, and even just purely as a practical matter, that way of looking at the world seems more likely to produce a good result than ours.

K.

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RE: Twins have no soul (an exercise in logic) - 4/10/2013 6:29:23 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

What does a soul do?

Are people going to spend their afterlives as the ghosts of single celled organisms?

What does a soul do? How in the world can you be so unaware at this stage of your life?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaNMQg2nYT4

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