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RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 10:07:46 AM   
lonlyrossInNeed


Posts: 3144
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		from my exsperienc i have had times when i need afrercare from anywere from just as little as an houre to as mouch as 3 days
i know there are times when there may need to be more i agree that some will do it for the atention and play like they need it longer
i know that alot of times i dont like comming back to earth i like my sub space its one of the only places where i feel totaly safe so sub drops can be very hard for me at times
just my exsperienc.

ross.g

_____________________________

To know what pain is hurts the most
pain is not just a wound in your flesh
pain is a dagger in your heart

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 11:32:59 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


You mentioned subdrop.  It is my opinion that if a bottom is constantly experiencing subdrop with an average type of play then they need to stop playing until they can learn to take care of themselves physically and manage their emotions better.  In the past two years, I have only experienced subdrop once and that was due to my inexperience, but after that one time I learned how to manage myself.  I do not rely on the person I am playing with to manage it for me after a typical play between us.

There are some more intense scenes that we have done, where it has taken me longer to come back to a normal state of being.  He kept me locked in his dungeon for a day and a half and pushed me really hard in many ways.  After he brought me out, life continued as normal and he kept himself available and around for me to turn to.  He would not have attempted that type of play if he was not able to be available to me afterwards.   

What most people seem to be referring to when they discuss aftercare is what naturally happens in my day to day life with him anyway.  I do not view it as aftercare because we would be interacting that way even without the play.  He has played me really hard and then put me on a plane several hours later with complete confidence that I am capable of taking care of myself.  If I couldn't do that then it would severely limit the type of play he could do with me.

Whether a bottom is viewed poorly or not, I do not know.  I know that if a lot of aftercare is what is wanted for someone, they would not make a good bottom for my Lord and probably not for others either.  It is a matter of preference and not necessarily whether one is better than the other. 

Knight's kyra

Over all my aftercare is let me go have a smoke, pee, get us drinks and washcloths (if needed), and about 5 minutes of me massaging their shoulders and arms while sitting in their lap or standing behind them.
I've never had a Dom I played with in the dungeon even call me the next day nor was I offended they did not.
My first Sir was not into doing much of any aftercare either.

I'm happy for you kyra, but you have to remember you have a wonderful Master leading you that trained you and only pushes you as far as he thinks you should go because he knows you.
Not everyone was afforded the education you were lucky enough to experience.
I'm one of those you think MUST  NOT be taking good care of my mental or physical health in your opinion and I shouldn't play because I drop heavy for a few days after play.
I think it's from all the chemicle balances in my brain being altered.
They've proven impact play can alleviate depression as it changed chemicle levels in test subjects brains better than prozac.

Does it change what's on my agenda those few days I drop hard after play, no.
Do I ask for more attnention or behave more clingy, no.
Do I expect to be catered to and spoiled by the Dom who caused it, no.
My sub drop is 90% physical and the 10% of the emotion is just a little lethargy I feel.
I can't help certain parts of me that were not touched ache like a tuning fork humms after a good scene.
Maybe you and I process differently, but that shouldn't make you think I'm not capapable or worthy to scene because I drop and you don't.


suzanne

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 1:19:09 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Standing,

quote:

  Are you saying if you had a sub who had abuse in her past come up based on something you triggered she'd be back to show room new floors in less than 5 days every time or just the amount of commitment you're willing to make to play??????


I am saying I am a hardass who only wants to play with mature adults.  If I hit some emotional landmine and someone needs some handholding, I will be there for what I decide is a reasonable amount of time.  If there is so much trauma that she needs more than a few days, she doesn't need aftercare, she needs therapy.  I am not being flippant, here either, I am not a therapist and S&M is not therapy. 

Again, talking about aftercare divorced from the type of play is pointless.  If I wanted to force a woman who isn't bi and isn't poly but has consented to give me control over those issues to suck and fuck another woman, I know I better be prepared to spend some serious time on this, not days but weeks.  That said, if she can't deal with the aftermath of granting that permission, that isn't my issue.  Will I be a cold heartless asshole?  No and I would blacklist anyone who was.  However, this isn't childsplay and if you want to look over the edge then be a frigging adult and be ready to deal with your own decisions.  In addition, I wouldn't likely do that sort of play outside some sort of relationship.

Lastly, I have no doubt there are people who have a legitimate need for long term aftercare.  As long as they recognize that and communicate that to those they play with I would be supportive of them.  I have just seen to many whiny submissives who go into hysterics for days because someone flogged them softly for 20 minutes.

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 1:38:13 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for your well worded reply Michael.

I also see subs take advantage.
I agree with what you say here.
suzanne

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 4:47:41 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAndInnocent


The biggest problem with this is that plenty, plenty, plenty of people don't consider aftercare at all in their negotiations.  It is also impossible to predict what will be needed when you are doing things that have never been done before.


I realize that there are people who don't make this part of their negotiations and I still think that if they don't negotiate it then it is unreasonable to expect it.  Just because it is an unreasonable expectation doesn't mean that you can't ask for it and if you have never done it before (whatever it might be) then that should be communicated as well.

quote:

I really have to disagree with this.  I've been doing this for years and still experience that "drop" quite often. I don't think it has anything to do with not being able to "manage my emotions".  However, I will say that I don't need someone else to fix it for me.  I just know what to expect and know how to be prepared for it.


You could be right about that and we could just have different definitions of what drop is.  I consider drop to be an emotional tailspin where a person's emotions are out of control.  If that is constantly happening with an average type of play, then I think there is more going on than just the play.
 
quote:

I am curious about you saying "probably not for others either".  Are you suggesting that a bottom who needs a lot of aftercare wont be able to find a top interested in playing?  Or, where you talking about a few others?



That is what I get for waking up in the middle of the night and writing a post... I forgot the word "some".  There are others like my Lord who do not give a lot of aftercare as I am sure there are tops who themselves want a lot of aftercare.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to SweetAndInnocent)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 5:30:37 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill

I'm one of those you think MUST  NOT be taking good care of my mental or physical health in your opinion and I shouldn't play because I drop heavy for a few days after play.
I think it's from all the chemicle balances in my brain being altered.
They've proven impact play can alleviate depression as it changed chemicle levels in test subjects brains better than prozac.

Does it change what's on my agenda those few days I drop hard after play, no.
Do I ask for more attnention or behave more clingy, no.
Do I expect to be catered to and spoiled by the Dom who caused it, no.
My sub drop is 90% physical and the 10% of the emotion is just a little lethargy I feel.
I can't help certain parts of me that were not touched ache like a tuning fork humms after a good scene.
Maybe you and I process differently, but that shouldn't make you think I'm not capapable or worthy to scene because I drop and you don't.


suzanne


suzanne,

The way you phrased this made me recall how alcohol affects me.  There are a lot of people in this world who drink on a regular basis and it doesn't have a negative impact on them.  If I have a couple drinks the impact it has on my brain chemistry is detrimental to my well-being.  I can go into a major depressive episode just from a couple drinks.  It doesn't matter that it felt good drinking at the time and that I enjoyed the slight buzz.  A couple days later I would drop and drop hard. 

I made a hard decision, that no matter how much I enjoy a really good glass of wine, drinking alcohol was harming me, so I stopped.  It might be fun in the moment but it wasn't good for me long term.

It is my belief that if someone consistently drops like that after an average type of play, then there is something wrong and playing might not be the best thing for them.  Whether a person is worthy or capable doesn't really enter into it for me; it is whether it might be harmful for them or not.  It is possible that the something that is wrong is the dynamic that is being engaged in; it doesn't work for them and a change needs to be made.  To me this is fun and if fun leaves a person feeling depressed, down, worthless or other negative emotions then something isn't right.  A person can be lethargic, tired, sore, spent and still have an underlying emotional gratification for having the experience.  Some of the most intense scenes we have had leave me highly emotionally gratified for days later even though my body feels like a well used punching bag.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to onestandingstill)
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RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 7:45:04 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I brought a munch to a halt the other day when I made the comment that anyone who needs five days of aftercare after an average scene isn't ready to really do BDSM.

I am curious what people like LA think about that.


I have never experienced subdrop longer than three days, but this comment seems to be  based upon the opinion that subdrop is  all just emotionally based and has no basis in our physical being. If you think that is all subdrop is I would say it is you who do not understand it, and that if someone needs several days to "get past it", they do. I have had sore achy muscles for 5 days from hiking way past my endurance. Subspace  is more complicated than mere physical exertion and it involves endorphins and possibly dopamine.We are talking a strong chemical reaction.

When I quit smoking cigarettes I had a withdrawl that lasted a few months due to my brain adjusting to the lack of neurotransmitters that it was accustomed to. I can imagine that for some people it might take a lot longer than 5 days to return to their pre-scene selves. I do not think it is anyone's place to judge someone else's physical reaction to a scene and state they should not do BDSM ever at all. In fact not all play results in subspace of this nature and it seems to be related to extreme play. It is up to the people involved whether or not they want to deal with a long case of subspace withdrawl... If someone was into some sort of play that left physical marks that took longer than 5 days to completely heal, would you think this person was too flawed to play anymore? It really is no different... just the part of us that is "wounded" is the brain chemistry component.

My subdrop has included sore muscles that felt like I ran a marathon.. these are physical responses to play, and it does not make a sub flawed to have them

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 10:43:10 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Julia,

What exactly are you basing your opinion on?  Mine comes from attending many many events and seeing hundreds of people scene and learning the craft from people who had done far more than I probably ever will.  In a good portion of those cases, I was a leader of the group or the owner of the playspace where the play went on and responsibility for dealing with these issues fell to me.

So, reread my post, you have an irritating habit of not reading deeply and reacting to what you think it says you have clearly done it here.  Talk to people who have actually seen lots of other people play and get their opinion on what I actually wrote.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/6/2007 11:32:27 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		OMG... I do have to jump into the middle of things again.

The need for aftercare may vary.
Hell there are many times, when there is not real need for it.  All depends up the type of activity and how often it's been done, and what somebody is used to.

God, if I spanked somebody's ass with a paper bag and it left no marks.  Perhaps the first time I did this, and they were a little out of wack about it.  I would understand.  But If I have already spanked thier ass with a paper bag over the course of a couple of months, and it was still messing with their mental and physical minds to need aftercare at alll.. Give me a break!  The amount of aftercare should be 2.5 seconds flat on that one.... 

I'm using a paper bag to illustrate things from the light weight side of matters...

Now, If I whip their ass with a flogger into something which looks like leftover hamburger helper with deep bruises and shit like that... they will need time to heal.  God, it's not only a physical thing but a mental thing. as well..  Days of healing.

Aftercare
I would assume anybody sane would know when somebody needs aftercare or not.  When it applies and does not apply.  There may be cases when a couple of hours is all that is needed... Damn, all depends upon aftercare after what?
Most people don't really think of this type of aftercare as Aftercare when they see the word aftercare.   They think in terms of it being Aftercare after serious intense play.

There is alway aftercare, somewhere in the middle of things though.  be it a couple of mins, hours, day, week... however long. 

I'm going turn this into some objectfication now.
We as people use things and own things.  Do we not look after our property, keep it up, clean it, take care of it.  Do the things we do to keep everything in working order?   If you take better care of actual physical thing then you do your sub/slave, then you should spend some deep time with personal reflection.

(in reply to lonlyrossInNeed)
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RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 12:19:28 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

If you take better care of actual physical thing then you do your sub/slave, then you should spend some deep time with personal reflection.


And in some cases, the Master has taught the slave to take care of herself in such matters, and this has made them both happy.

Edited to clarify I was just adding another option and didn't mean to sound snippy.  That wasn't where I was coming from at all.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 3/7/2007 12:23:58 AM >

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RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 4:25:02 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Subspace  is more complicated than mere physical exertion and it involves endorphins and possibly dopamine.We are talking a strong chemical reaction.


Julia,

My Lord has been looking for a credible scientific study on what happens to the body during BDSM and subspace.  Can you point us to your source of this information?  He has found a lot of theory and assumptions but has not found anyone who actually performed a scientific study on it.  He would love to see the write up on a study about body chemistry as it relates to subspace. 

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 5:00:41 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill

I'm one of those you think MUST  NOT be taking good care of my mental or physical health in your opinion and I shouldn't play because I drop heavy for a few days after play.
I think it's from all the chemicle balances in my brain being altered.
They've proven impact play can alleviate depression as it changed chemicle levels in test subjects brains better than prozac.

Does it change what's on my agenda those few days I drop hard after play, no.
Do I ask for more attnention or behave more clingy, no.
Do I expect to be catered to and spoiled by the Dom who caused it, no.
My sub drop is 90% physical and the 10% of the emotion is just a little lethargy I feel.
I can't help certain parts of me that were not touched ache like a tuning fork humms after a good scene.
Maybe you and I process differently, but that shouldn't make you think I'm not capapable or worthy to scene because I drop and you don't.


suzanne


suzanne,

The way you phrased this made me recall how alcohol affects me.  There are a lot of people in this world who drink on a regular basis and it doesn't have a negative impact on them.  If I have a couple drinks the impact it has on my brain chemistry is detrimental to my well-being.  I can go into a major depressive episode just from a couple drinks.  It doesn't matter that it felt good drinking at the time and that I enjoyed the slight buzz.  A couple days later I would drop and drop hard. 

I made a hard decision, that no matter how much I enjoy a really good glass of wine, drinking alcohol was harming me, so I stopped.  It might be fun in the moment but it wasn't good for me long term.

It is my belief that if someone consistently drops like that after an average type of play, then there is something wrong and playing might not be the best thing for them.  Whether a person is worthy or capable doesn't really enter into it for me; it is whether it might be harmful for them or not.  It is possible that the something that is wrong is the dynamic that is being engaged in; it doesn't work for them and a change needs to be made.  To me this is fun and if fun leaves a person feeling depressed, down, worthless or other negative emotions then something isn't right.  A person can be lethargic, tired, sore, spent and still have an underlying emotional gratification for having the experience.  Some of the most intense scenes we have had leave me highly emotionally gratified for days later even though my body feels like a well used punching bag.

Knight's kyra

Thanks for clarifying your perspective.
What I interpreted from what you read just didn't seem like you to me.
I agree the difference was you think of sub drop as mostly emotional and when I say sub drop I think of the physical stuff  I feel.
LOL all night I imagined you must not have good pain conductors if you were not left sore for days behind heavy impact.
I agree if you become spaz woman for days behind scening it indeed needs to be re-evaluated as the emotional distress of being under a black cloud of depression is indeed something I avoid if at all possible.
For me as stated before it's only about 10% emotional drop for me.

I can say if the day after I play all the sudden I'm faced with a huge combative conversation I indeed will process it a little differently than others, but if not provoked I think I'm usually on an even emotional keel behind heavy scenes and still able to take care of myself and my responsibilities.


suzanne


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 5:33:52 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
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quote:


And in some cases, the Master has taught the slave to take care of herself in such matters, and this has made them both happy.

Edited to clarify I was just adding another option and didn't mean to sound snippy.  That wasn't where I was coming from at all.


I did not take you as being snippy.  What you said is a very great point as well.  Just that some Masters Owners Dom/mes significant others, need to realize that time may be needed, and not to push things to the point everything breaks. 

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 5:38:13 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
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quote:


Julia,

My Lord has been looking for a credible scientific study on what happens to the body during BDSM and subspace.  Can you point us to your source of this information?  He has found a lot of theory and assumptions but has not found anyone who actually performed a scientific study on it.  He would love to see the write up on a study about body chemistry as it relates to subspace. 

Knight's kyra


This may sound odd, but he might be able to use any research which was done regarding, Torture.   Be it from wartime, CIA.. or whatnot.  Because the torture victims would have been in/out of a sort of subspace.   Post Trumatic stress, or perhap studies on the effects one suffers from accidents.  Auto accidents..  Any similar studies to the effect of pain on a person in General is what I'm trying to express.  Now that I've fumbled around with so many words..


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RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 6:12:40 AM   
SlyStone


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From: Chicago
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Lastly, I have no doubt there are people who have a legitimate need for long term aftercare.  As long as they recognize that and communicate that to those they play with I would be supportive of them.



I agree here. This is not a one is better than the other kind of thing, it is really about if you have these needs how you communicate them, and what you should reasonably expect from the dominant in return.  

But I also think when you get into needing 5 days or a week or longer of aftercare, perhaps you are talking about the difference between casually scening with someone and having/needing a relationship with someone.

Communication is important, but so is having realistic expectations and clearly identifying one's needs.



_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

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RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 6:57:43 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Julia,

What exactly are you basing your opinion on?  Mine comes from attending many many events and seeing hundreds of people scene and learning the craft from people who had done far more than I probably ever will.  In a good portion of those cases, I was a leader of the group or the owner of the playspace where the play went on and responsibility for dealing with these issues fell to me.

So, reread my post, you have an irritating habit of not reading deeply and reacting to what you think it says you have clearly done it here.  Talk to people who have actually seen lots of other people play and get their opinion on what I actually wrote.
 

I am basing my opinion on studying neurotransmitters, addiction, the chemistry of emotions, adrenaline responses, and my own experience with using exercise to change my brain chemistry. I have a genetic predisposition to anxiety and depression, I have successfully taken care of this with taking care of myself. I think that this is something that is not about your perceptions of reality, but what is going in another human being. Now you may not respect my opinion based upon my own endorphin responses, subspace responses, my own overcoming of my brain chemistry being "off, my extensive research into neurotransmitters and the pleasure pain response... that does not matter to me to be honest. All we are as people is a chemical soup.. alter the chemical composition of the soup and unexpected things happen. I know that people do not like looking at how their own brain chemistry can be so easily screwed up to cause major shifts in their perceptions... but put any person on certain drugs and you will see a shift in their personality... for some this happens occasionally with subspace.

Many people still think depression is a lack of willpower too. 

As far as misunderstanding... you seemed to be stating that you brought a munch to a halt, that you knew this opinion would be not universally accepted by the way you put it out there. i do not agree your opinion... be annoyed as you like, it does not matter to me. I have my opinions and you have yours. If I misunderstood this entire post, perhaps it was the way it was worded and not my reading comprehension

I will also say that your's was a blanket statement that ANYONE that required more than 5 days of aftercare should not do BDSM, you did not say YOUR partner, it was a blanket statement I was responding to, a universal in judgment of what someone else should and should not do... so perhaps my response was to what you actually wrote.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 3/7/2007 7:00:07 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 7:20:22 AM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

I am curious as to why "aftercare" is looked upon by some Dominants as a , dare I say, "necessary evil"?..I would think that aftercare, at least within a couple dynamic,and not simply "scening", would be highly pleasurable, and desired by both......Tempting


Tempting... some Tops look at as a neccessary evil.... just like some bottoms look at as a neccessary neccessity of need.

Personally... think many make alot more that is or should be.  I do however like your line of thought that i should be another stage in the play that can be pleasurable for the dynamic.




my former Master loved having a full-body "nail massage" after play & at first was concerned that i would get tired or my arms get sore from doing this for him--he liked it for up to 45 minutes after--but i discovered that this was like aftercare for me also...it was the most amazing energy exchange...i would nearly go into a trance doing this for him & found that i could do it for however long he required it...so this was always the form my aftercare took & the only time i experienced "subdrop" was the day that i had unresolved emotional issues...he was concerned about me, but i told him that these were my own to resolve & began the nail massage.....


_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 8:10:39 AM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am saying I am a hardass who only wants to play with mature adults.  If I hit some emotional landmine and someone needs some handholding, I will be there for what I decide is a reasonable amount of time.  If there is so much trauma that she needs more than a few days, she doesn't need aftercare, she needs therapy.  I am not being flippant, here either, I am not a therapist and S&M is not therapy. 

Lastly, I have no doubt there are people who have a legitimate need for long term aftercare.  As long as they recognize that and communicate that to those they play with I would be supportive of them.  I have just seen to many whiny submissives who go into hysterics for days because someone flogged them softly for 20 minutes.


i have to agree with the statement about S/M not being therapy...although i have been doing some personal experiments lately with the effect of pain on my sense of well-being with quite positive results...however, if i felt so down days after a scene, i would believe that this showed that it wasn't a good thing for me...i have always been allowed to communicate with the Dom with whom i scened & have used my Journal to process any thoughts & feelings which have lingered...so, in a way, i have used it as therapeutic, which is not at all what i hear you saying here...

as for the second paragraph i quoted here, communication is essential...i have never had a new thing done to me without letting the dominant know that it's something i have never experienced & without discussion beforehand...i think that there is great danger for both if this type of discussion is not attended to...going into a scene blind is never a good thing...the poor dominant may inadvertantly step on some landmines......


_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 8:37:23 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Julia

quote:

I am basing my opinion on studying neurotransmitters, addiction, the chemistry of emotions, adrenaline responses,
 

But your work is divorced from BDSM and if I recall correctly you have only been to one or two events and there has been no sceintific study of BDSM directly so you are infering what you know through the lens of the only sample you know, which is yourself.  What would be the criticism of a paper with a sample of one?

quote:

  I have ...I have ...taking care of myself. I think ... Now you may not respect my opinion based upon my own endorphin responses, subspace responses, my own overcoming of my brain chemistry being "off, my extensive research into neurotransmitters and the pleasure pain response... that does not matter to me to be honest.


Julia, "extensive research" with one sample?  Research in this sense I assume doesn't involve doing original research, you are simply a student.

Again, you are projecting yourself right into the argument without stepping back and seeing the big picture.  Again, there is a significant modifyer in my post that continues to go over your head.  You are still seeing everything as about you and it blinds you.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: How long is aftercare required? - 3/7/2007 10:04:55 AM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill


I think it's from all the chemicle balances in my brain being altered.
They've proven impact play can alleviate depression as it changed chemicle levels in test subjects brains better than prozac.


suzanne


suzanne:  i can't seem to find this study in a search online...do you have the information regarding this study available?  & was it just one study or more that proved this?

thank you so much,


_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 60
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