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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 8:32:08 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

  I'm no great fan of Speaker Pelosi, but this goes in the "so freakin' what" file.


You don't find it a bit ironic that the first female Speaker of the House prostrates herself before the idea that women must cover themselves while in public?

I do.


So your point then is that

a) women are weak and foolish
b) democrats are weak and foolish
c) a woman democrat is doubly weak and foolish

Have you considered converting to Islam?

E


Oh you make me laugh LadyEllen...

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 8:40:48 AM   
farglebargle


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You know, the extreme right wingers here in the west agree very, very much with what the Taliban subscribes to.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/4/2007 8:41:14 AM >


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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 8:58:45 AM   
outlier


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Sanity,

This goes directly to "The Ugly American" thread.

If you remember that book, the reason(s) why it said
we were losing and going to lose in Vietnam was that
the Communists went in in a culturally sensitive manner.
They respected the people and the customs and therefore
were granted respect in turn.  And having won the "minds
and hearts" of the people, they won the war.

The "Ugly Americans" on the other hand, at that time showed
no cultural sensitivity and expected people all over the world
to follow American customs.  So they were seen as crude
insensitive and boorish.  No one wants to be around them or
like them or associate with them. 

I am glad to see that The Speaker of The House has learned
this lesson.  Obviously many others have yet to do so.

Until all our elected officials learn these lessons people are going to
keep fighting and dying to throw American invaders out. Remember
the famous saying:  "Those that do not learn the lessons of history are
doomed to repeat it." 

Given this I would think that any sane person who wants America to
succeed in the world would applaud her actions.  Unless they were
more interested in pushing one political party than the good of America.

Outlier


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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 9:12:00 AM   
puella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


The hajib is a beautiful expression of the feminine devotion to God. You do not understand it obviously... and btw I think that the hajib is often used as an adornment and many Muslim women I knew at my college that wore them were scholars. One won the prestigious President's Honors at my graduation.. wearing her hajib


Indeed, juliaoceania.  Infact it is not the only religion that traditionally, has women cover their heads  in some manner or another.  It was not until after Vatican II that women in the Catholic faith were to cover their heads in church, and I just attended a passover celebration where the women (myself included as a guest) covered their heads in some manner.

It is just as easy to find beauty in the things which have meaning and tradtion to others as it is to be ethnocentrically scornful and ridiculous about them.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 9:41:32 AM   
Lordandmaster


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I love angry Republicans.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 9:48:02 AM   
cyberdude611


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It was funny a few years ago the leaders of Saudi Arabia came over to the US to visit. They refused to land unless all women left the control tower at the airport. Its funny because we are supposed to respect their culture when they come over here. And we are supposed to respect their culture when we go over there. Although no one seems to give a damn about our culture or beliefs.

I'm so tired of this crap. And you think Syria gives a damn about anything she has to say? Don't fool yourself. They are laughing at us.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 9:50:42 AM   
farglebargle


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At least Nancy Pelosi is WHITE. Who ever thought Condi Rice could command any respect from those cultures?



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 11:21:04 AM   
puella


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Oh dear....looks like the first lady was pretending to be some guy's slave too, as well as prostrating herself before the idea that women must cover themselves in public....


http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/meast/05/22/laura.bush/vert.laura.jerusalem.pool.jpg


You do hold the same stantards on both sides of the aisle, right Sanity??

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 11:44:32 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I'm sorry, did she make a statment declaring that, or are you just being wrong again?


If some people are standing on the antipode of the place their profile states they are from, are they still wrong?

Sinergy


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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 11:52:58 AM   
Vendaval


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The symbolic covering of a person's head is common
in several religions and cultures.  When in Rome...

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 11:55:09 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Shouldn't Madam Speaker respect and follow ALL the rules governing woman in the fundamental form of Islam? Here is a partial list:

1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some hospitals in Kabul.
2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband).
3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers.
4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors.
5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution.
6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe.
7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Islamic rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram.
8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles.
9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule).
10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off).
11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males.
12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice).
13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.)
14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram.
15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind.
16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club.
17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams.
18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Islamic terms, these are "sexually attracting colors."
19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose.
20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place.
21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden".
22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses.
23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes.
24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing women's clothes.
25- Ban on female public baths.
26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only").
27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa.
28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women.
29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.

 
Getting to be "True and Real" you can take the stance of the Taliban regarding:
- Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well.
- Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone.
- Banned celebrating the traditional Afganistan new year (Nowroz) on March 21. The Taliban has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic.
- Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed a "communist" holiday.
- Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones.
- Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth.
- Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap.
- Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin.
- Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily.
- Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. The kite flying has also been stopped.
- Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping.
- Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-Islamic" according to Taliban.
- Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed.
- Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed.
- All boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no education".
- Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population.
- Banned the use of the internet by both ordinary Afghans and foreigners.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 11:59:16 AM   
puella


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Do you really think she should?  Do you really think that was the issue?  Most visiting stateswomen do not  hop into a burqa when visiting Afghanistan, they will cover their heads.  She is not trying to become a citizen of Syria, she was visiting a mosque.  I think it makes perfect sense for her to cover her head in a place of worship.

And I am sure you have at your fingertips the list of things the male members of Congress should do as well? (Both Republican and Democrat)... and as the picture shows.. you would of course, expect the First Lady to demure to the rules you posted and your position?

< Message edited by puella -- 4/4/2007 12:01:32 PM >


_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 11:59:59 AM   
Lashra


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I feel this way about it. As a high power politician she should not be forced to wear the head covering. If she chooses to wear it out of respect for their culture, that is her decision.

If it were me I would not wear the covering and here are my reasons why. I am not muslim and although I respect their culture, I do not have to practice their religion. I feel if I can respect their culture then they surely can respect mine.

I have heard people say "when in Rome do as the Romans do" well if you didn't they killed you. Not very diplomatic at all. You can sure bet when the Romans went to other countries they sure as hell did not adopt that cultures customs or religious practices. They were usually there to dominate and enslave.

Nancy Peolsi can do that which she thinks is best, but for me I am a western woman and proud of it. I cover my red head for no one.

~Lashra


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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:02:25 PM   
LadyEllen


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The New Testament says that Christian women should cover their heads in church.

E

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:03:01 PM   
puella


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I can certainly understand your stance, Lashra, but would you take your shoes off before entering the house of someone who was Japanese?

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:05:59 PM   
Lashra


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I have to agree with you I do not believe they respect our culture and aren't even going to consider trying. So far they are playing the "appeasement card", they want everyone to respect them and their ways yet they refuse to acknowledge any other culture/religion. Now I am not saying this is everyone who is muslim, but it seems many of them have this mindset.

If I had been in control of that tower I would have told them, no one is leaving the building but you are welcome to fly back home on the remaining fuel that you have.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:06:44 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I can certainly understand your stance, Lashra, but would you take your shoes off before entering the house of someone who was Japanese?


I would do it out of respect for the people I was visiting.

Im not emotionally involved in the controversy to want to make a big deal out of it.

She was not there to negotiate the way that Clinton's secretary of state was when she went to negotiate with muslims.

Sinergy

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:11:23 PM   
farglebargle


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Anyone remember offhand the stupid shit Leviticus commands of those who follow that text?



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:13:23 PM   
farglebargle


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Oh, and another thing.

Laura Bush BETTER be freaking obedient. She's nothing but the wife of a minor functionary, tasked with executing the laws the legislature promulgates.

Nancy Pelosi actually represents THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:14:06 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella
Do you really think she should?
No - I really think she, and any other diplomat or person representing the USA, should not go at all unless they support these positions. Or, they can use the trip as an opportunity to point out the nature of the philosophy of the country. My point was, she picked one visual reference and adopted it. I see it from the perspective of the woman living in that country under the rest of the laws and regulations I cited. She is giving legitimacy to ALL the regulations by following one.

Unlike the Catholic, or Jewish religions who have and require some form of visual representation of "respect"; they don't have the earthy or after-life consequences as does fundamentalist Islam.

Warning Thread Killing Reference To Follow...
If she went to Germany in 1939 it would be expected she wear a Nazi armband. Doesn't that symbol to this day represent EVERYTHING Nazi or just the fact they elected Hitler?

quote:

And I am sure you have at your fingertips the list of things the male members of Congress should do as well? (Both Republican and Democrat)... and as the picture shows.. you would of course, expect the First Lady to demure to the rules you posted and your position?
I feel the same way about anyone going there to "negotiate"? Negotiate first that the next young woman experiencing the crime of rape won't be stoned for her "offense". Anyone of either sex or political party who goes and has intercourse with those supporting those regulations in effect supports the continuing exploitation and persecution of woman.
quote:

Anyone remember offhand the stupid shit Leviticus commands of those who follow that text?
fargle - Wonder why no one can remember them? There is no country enforcing them. VERY different than what is happening in the neighborhood Speaker Pelosi is wondering around.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 4/4/2007 12:18:09 PM >

(in reply to puella)
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