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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:18:09 PM   
puella


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Hmm... well I can not agree with your position.  I think that we are a part of the world and have a repsonsibility to act diplomatically and to negotiate, even with people we don't like.  Nothing will happen otherwise to change things for the better. 

And it is not at all the same as going to Germany and wearing a swastica.  The swastica was the symbol of the a political party not a cultural meme.  I would not expect a visiting dignitary to come to the US and wear a donkey or elephant emblem either.

< Message edited by puella -- 4/4/2007 12:22:13 PM >


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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:29:06 PM   
Sanity


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Try again, this time without the pathetic strawman argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

So your point then is that

a) women are weak and foolish
b) democrats are weak and foolish
c) a woman democrat is doubly weak and foolish

E

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:30:54 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Hmm... well I can not agree with your position.  I think that we are a part of the world and have a responsibility to act diplomatically and to negotiate, even with people we don't like.  Nothing will happen otherwise to change things for the better. 


puella,
Thirty nine years ago today a man died who thankfully did not agree that accepting prejudice and persecution was negotiable; Dr. Martin Luther King.

He educated everyone that when a white person went into a "White's Only" restaurant they were, in effect, condoning racial prejudice and the ongoing Jim Crow laws of the south even if they didn't support them. It was a valuable lesson - lost today.

You are correct - we are part of the world. Like it or not, and whether we are liked or not, we are still perceived as "world leaders". I'll stipulate that the issues I raised were not considered by Speaker Pelosi. However, I'll argue that they should have been and the opportunity taken.

I respect your disagreement.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:43:43 PM   
puella


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December 6, 2006 a bipartisan group published the Iraq Study Group Report which the President himself said we should all wait to get the results from to base our future policy on (and then dismissed when he didn't find what he wanted in there) stating that the United States must engage in dialoge with Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the other surrounding countries of Iraq to ensure a political resolution to the problems in that region.

I would never say you are not entitled to your opinion on foreign policy, but I just do not happen to agree with you on it.  No harm no foul.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 12:56:31 PM   
cloudboy


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Sadly, she looks a little bit like Keith Richards in the photo to the left.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 1:11:56 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Who wants to take the bet that those whining about Pelosi haven't railed against Bush for all the bullshit our female soldiers have to put with in Iraq!  So if you only whine about when  Democrat does it, that doesn't make  you principled, it simply makes you a hypocrite.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 1:50:29 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Interesting picture of her on Drudge this morning.

http://www.drudgereport.com/



   Laura Bush wore a head covering on her visit also.. as is the custom.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 1:53:31 PM   
farglebargle


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With drudges track record, why bother even visiting the site?



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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 2:02:03 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Laura Bush wore a head covering on her visit also.. as is the custom.


But it's Liberals like Pelosi who are supposed to stand for "womens' rights"

In fact, she's the poster child, being the first female speaker and all

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 2:53:46 PM   
puella


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And Laura Bush stands for the opposite?  Oppression of women?  Just admit to it Sanity, dude.. you have been called out. 

Not all Muslim women are oppressed, some even become elected officials of government... and guess what they wear...

Benazir Bhutto, former Prime Minster of Pakistan
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DBenazir%2BBhutto%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3Dmss%26ei%3DUTF-8&w=230&h=271&imgurl=www.nndb.com%2Fpeople%2F282%2F000025207%2Fbhutto-sm.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nndb.com%2Fpeople%2F282%2F000025207&size=19.5kB&name=bhutto-sm.jpg&p=Benazir+Bhutto&type=jpeg&no=9&tt=781&oid=1e8d83d8432c8168&ei=UTF-8

Khaleda Zia, former Prime Minister of Bangladesh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaleda_Zia

Sheikh Hasina, Former Prime Minister of Bangaladesh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Hasina



< Message edited by puella -- 4/4/2007 3:21:25 PM >


_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 3:51:55 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Laura Bush wore a head covering on her visit also.. as is the custom.


But it's Liberals like Pelosi who are supposed to stand for "womens' rights"

In fact, she's the poster child, being the first female speaker and all


Women know how to choose their battels.  Don't loose any sleep over it.  The men have had their chance and made a mess.. it's the women's turn now.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 4:48:43 PM   
meatcleaver


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As Churchill pointed out, 'jaw jaw is better than war war'. If Bush is too stupid to talk, someone has to make the effort. I haven't noticed Bush's policies paying dividends.

As for the scarf, there is nothing wrong or weak in showing ones host a little respect.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 4:53:23 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Shouldn't Madam Speaker respect and follow ALL the rules governing woman in the fundamental form of Islam? Here is a partial list:

1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some hospitals in Kabul.
2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband).
3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers.
4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors.
5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution.
6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe.
7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Islamic rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram.
8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles.
9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule).
10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off).
11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males.
12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice).
13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.)
14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram.
15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind.
16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club.
17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams.
18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Islamic terms, these are "sexually attracting colors."
19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose.
20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place.
21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden".
22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses.
23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes.
24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing women's clothes.
25- Ban on female public baths.
26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only").
27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa.
28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women.
29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.

 
Getting to be "True and Real" you can take the stance of the Taliban regarding:
- Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well.
- Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone.
- Banned celebrating the traditional Afganistan new year (Nowroz) on March 21. The Taliban has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic.
- Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed a "communist" holiday.
- Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones.
- Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth.
- Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap.
- Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin.
- Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily.
- Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. The kite flying has also been stopped.
- Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping.
- Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-Islamic" according to Taliban.
- Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed.
- Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed.
- All boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no education".
- Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population.
- Banned the use of the internet by both ordinary Afghans and foreigners.



There are a lot of fundemental Christians and Jews that would draw up a similar list to this with a few religious differences.

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 4:58:52 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Women know how to choose their battels.  Don't loose any sleep over it.  The men have had their chance and made a mess.. it's the women's turn now.


So, are you honestly trying to suggest with a straight face that your heroin Nancy Pelosi is going to be negotiating with some Muslim women in Iran and Syria?

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 5:04:06 PM   
krys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

But it's Liberals like Pelosi who are supposed to stand for "womens' rights"

In fact, she's the poster child, being the first female speaker and all


Sanity,

Since when does standing for woman's rights equate to a mandatory lack of manners?  I notice you haven't responded regarding Laura Bush showing manners in exactly the same fashion.

And why is being a muslim bad?  I can understand why being a terrorist is bad, that I get.  But why is being a muslim somehow a negative?  I dont think Tim McVeigh was a muslim, was he? 

Believe it or not, your own personal set of prejudices and petty hate don't support your position, they just make you seem petty.  You may want to use the inside voice a bit more. 


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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 5:13:33 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

There are a lot of fundemental Christians and Jews that would draw up a similar list to this with a few religious differences.


Yeah sure, meatcleaver, you hear about that sort of thing all the time, Christians and Jews stoning women for getting raped, and things of that nature. Christians and Jews are all the time beheading Muslims and what-not just simply for being non-believers... yeah. Sure, sure there, meatcleaver. Happens all the time...

Say - what color is the sky on your planet, anyway

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 5:15:33 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

If she went to Germany in 1939 it would be expected she wear a Nazi armband.


I seriously doubt that, actually. Chamberlain (whateverr his weaknesses) certainly didn't. Do you know of visiting foreign dignitaries who did?

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 5:25:20 PM   
puella


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She is beginning the first talks with the neighbors of Iraq since this occupation began. (Well, besides the times that Cheney went to Saudi Arabia to meet with the administrations financial allies.)  Syria has announced, via her discussions, that they are willing to sit down with Israel for peace talks. 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070404/ts_nm/syria_usa_pelosi_dc_10

On a side note, Syria seems to have actually helped in the facilitation of the release of the British hostages.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070404/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_britain_syria_2

Amazing what can happen when you sit down and talk to someone instead of dismising them as evil, eh?

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 5:25:45 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: krys
Sanity,

Since when does standing for woman's rights equate to a mandatory lack of manners?  I notice you haven't responded regarding Laura Bush showing manners in exactly the same fashion.



Sure I responded, friend - when I said that LIBERALS are supposed to stand for "womens' rights". Remember?

Just because you can't understand doesn't mean that it was never addressed.

quote:


And why is being a muslim bad?  I can understand why being a terrorist is bad, that I get.  But why is being a muslim somehow a negative?  I dont think Tim McVeigh was a muslim, was he? 



Show me where I've said that being a Muslim is bad. I've said things like, Muslim women are stoned for being raped, which is true, but you're lying to yourself when you try to put those words in my mouth. Are you denying the reality that Jihad is a part of the Muslim faith? Killing or enslaving all Westerners is the dream of Muslim fundamentalists, like it or not. Why do you condemn me for speaking the truth... wouldn't it be far easier for you to just hide your head in the sand instead?

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RE: Nancy Pelosi As A Muslim - 4/4/2007 5:50:54 PM   
SimplyMichael


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In Sanity,

ON a BDSM board you are going to bitch that a woman wore a headscarf and whine about women's rights?  Really?  Doesn't fucking say much for your so-called name does it?

You do realize our founding fathers respected Mohammedanism?  Doesn't surprise me, they were deeply intelligent men.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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