RE: Fat... (Full Version)

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uncollaredcandy -> RE: Fat... (5/10/2005 9:48:01 PM)

I just read through this thread for the fist time tonight, and I am very, very surprised that no one has really gotten into the health issue. It is possible to be fat and fit, or fat and not fit, or skinny and fit, or skinny and not fit. But it is healthier to be fat and fit, meaning exercise and proper diet, even if they aren't at an ideal weight, than to be skinny and not fit, such as skinny and not exercising and eating properly.

The other thing I would encourage everyone to do is read Wendy Shanker's "The Fat Girl's Guide to Life" . This book is interesting because it discusses some of the issues people have with the word fat. It discusses the difference between being fat and Fat. With the little f being the overweight fat and the big F being the mental Fat. I may be overweight which makes me fat, but I am not Fat. Did that make any sense? The book provides some interesting insight to some of the issues faced by all people and is worth the read. And it was only like $6 when I bought it.

The other thing I would like to talk about is the discrimination issue. Recently some people were fired from their job at a Michigan company for being smokers. The company told everyone they had to stop smoking to help keep the health insurance low. So if a company can fire someone for smoking, what is to stop them from doing it because someone is fat? or because a certain demographic of people are more susceptible for a certain disease? What I am trying to say it discrimination is wrong no matter what.

Thats just my 2 cents-

Candy



Voltare -> RE: Fat... (5/10/2005 10:08:25 PM)

Legally, a man can be fired because his boss doesn't like the color of his shoes. Is that fair?

Consider the flip side of the coin, however, that if you owned a company and you didn't like the way that some of your employees spoke. Perhaps they used very harsh or coarse language when they spoke. Especially if they were salespeople, you wouldn't want them exposed to potential clients. Yet, if you fire them, perhaps they will sue you under 'equal employment laws' claiming that you are prejudiced against their particular mode of speech? Where do you draw the line?

Instead of seeing employers as being the root of the problem, take advantage of their shortcomings. Disabled people are a prime example - many disabled people are extremely honest and hardworking people. Because they are rejected by some companies due to their handicaps, other more open minded companies find excellent workers that have been ignored or overlooked.

Please understand, I am not an advocate for discrimination on the basis of..... XXXXX. Rather, I am more aggressive in stating that companies that discriminate hinder their own growth and well being. Victims don't inherently deserve a handout from society. They deserve the same 'fighting chance' that every other member of society deserves, to succeed or fail based on their own merit, not on artificial assistance from outside sources.

Stephan



uncollaredcandy -> RE: Fat... (5/10/2005 10:16:06 PM)

I think Voltare you said it best-

"They deserve the same 'fighting chance' that every other member of society deserves, to succeed or fail based on their own merit, not on artificial assistance from outside sources."

Thank you for putting into words what I couldn't.

Candy



allyC -> RE: Fat... (5/10/2005 11:57:30 PM)

Hiya :)

quote:

I think someone is lying with these numbers, because I have a little sister who is about 5'2" tall, thin, no tits or ass (poor thing), weighs about 140lbs, and wears a size 10-12; there is no way Marylin monroe had these stats unless the camera added 40lbs, and to me she did look like a modern day size 16 (on film)


Well, she's a good 3 and a half inches shorter than Marilyn was and everyone is built differently...

Here is a link to a photo of Marilyn's centerfold for Playboy. She looks very slender to me.

http://www.bay13.de/pics/desktop/morepictures/playboy_centerfold_1953-12-Marilyn_Monroe_1024x768.jpg

Marilyn was considered "full figured" for her day because she had curves and full breasts. She wasn't considered full figured because she was plus-sized. I remember what I looked like when I wore a size 16 and I certainly wasn't anywhere near as slender as Marilyn Monroe. *grin*

Take care :)

-Cav's girl
ally{C}




FelinePersuasion -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 12:26:26 AM)

See, I don't like when they're so skinny their ribs stick out when the skin is streatched taut, Joe's ribs do that an they jab me when we cuddle.



allyC -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 12:31:08 AM)

Hi Candy :)

I agree with all of your points completely. Skinny does not automatically mean healthy. Fat does not automatically mean unhealthy. Healthy = Healthy.

As for the being fired thing... well from what I have heard lately, there are already health insurance companies that are refusing to cover people who are "over weight." They will, however, cover skinny air traffic controllers (very high stress job) who don't exercise, have high cholesterol, who have a strong family history of cancer and heart disease and who drink alcohol regularly. Go figure....

I think what surprises me most about the whole fat issue is that it is considered completely acceptable on a social level to make fun of a person's weight, even in a cruel manner. Commercials, movies, television shows - they all love to paint the fat person out to be the slovenly, dorky, social misfit. They attach every negative stereotype associated with weight and throw in some name-calling to round it off and say "That'll work" and the public in general seems to think its just fine.

In the movie "Shallow Hal" for instance, when Gwyneth Paltrow's character was offered a piece of cake, she took 3/4 of the cake. Every restaurant she went to, she broke the chairs. When she and Hal went out to dinner, she ordered enough food for 10 people. I was pretty blown away because I know a lot of big folks and they don't act like that.

(As an aside here, I'd like to add that putting all of that makeup and the body suit on Gwyneth was just silly.. she didn't look like a fat girl - she looked like Ms. Paltrow with a fat suit, facial prosthetics and makeup on. They could have hired an actress who was heavy... Hmmm what a concept)

What also sort of blew me away was the fact that the filmmakers decided that when Hal saw "ugly" women's inner beauty, he saw them as super models. Isn't that shallow in itself? LOL Sort of ironic I think. Its like they said... "Hey... lets make a movie about how inner beauty is what counts BUT lets have inner beauty represented by the media's standard of physical beauty." *chuckles*

There is a play running on broadway at the moment called "Fat Pig," starring Ashlie Atkinson and Jeremy Piven. It is about a woman who is plus-sized and who starts dating a handsome sort of regular guy. He gets harrassed all the time by his coworkers (his friend played by Andrew McCarthy and his girlfriend played by Kerri Russell) for dating a fat girl. The sad thing is that in the end, he can't seem to deal with the pressure and he breaks it off with her - not because she was flawed (she was really awesome) but because he couldn't stand up to the societal pressure of dating a fat girl.

To me, that focuses on the shallow relationship society has with appearances moreso than the ridiculousness of Shallow Hal.

Who knows, maybe some day people will just be looked at as people and inner beauty will be en vogue. Until then, I'll just keep being me and surround myself with the people who love me for who I am rather than what my spirit is wrapped in.

Cav's girl
ally{C}



ManOwner -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 12:58:59 AM)

allyC, you've said it all so well. Your observations about "Shallow Hal" are dead-on, as are your responses to sissy. What blew me away most, though, was what you said about walking a mile in someone's shoes. That is exactly the way I think of it. After meeting thousands of people from different walks of life, I have learned that it is impossible to imagine what it feels like to be someone else. That is why it is so important for people to listen to each other rather than pass judgment. Your horror story about the boys in the car is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about when I said "the most virulent hatred." I believe the average person has much uglier feelings about large people than people of a different race. When you're a person of size, every day can very well be a personal hell. I would be contradicting myself if I claimed that people of color don't experience hell of the same degree, but I don't think it's worse. That's the point of my paper, and this discussion has given me lots of great ideas. So I am very grateful to you for starting it.

The final thing I want to say concerns the statement by someone here that she "chooses" to be fat because she doesn't do the things that would make her lose weight. This is the logic trap that so many people fall into. Most of us don't choose to live this way. Rather, we do everything within our power to shed fat (even if it kills us) because anything is better than living this way. Unfortunately, the fact of being merely human thwarts us much of the time. People who have not had serious weight problems have no idea what it takes to change. They envision a few dietary changes and a regular exercise regimen, no problem! Please, if it were that easy our economy might very well collapse due to the elimination of one of our largest industries - the weight loss business. Human physiology is so much more complex than that, and science has a long way to go before figuring it all out. Most people who lose weight gain it back eventually, but the majority of people who try to lose weight don't even get to that point. They fail over and over and over again. I have been fighting this uphill battle for 20 years, and I am finally making headway due to a certain medication that has proven successful so far. However, whether it will be enough and whether the results will be sustainable are questions that cause me great anxiety still.



BlkTallFullfig -> Oh Puhleez! ManOwner (5/11/2005 12:53:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOwner
I would be contradicting myself if I claimed that people of color don't experience hell of the same degree, but I don't think it's worse.

Your horror story about the boys in the car is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about when I said "the most virulent hatred." I believe the average person has much uglier feelings about large people than people of a different race.

You ManOwner have No Idea of what you speak when you compare society's preference for thinner to the racial harrassment people experience every day. I don't want to engage you in this conversation, except to advise you that it would be better if you stick to offering opinions about your life and your experience, and to suggest you not speak for mine, since you clearly haven't a clue what mine is about. I'd like to say I'm shocked at your lack of understanding and sympathy for that which isn't a problem for you.

You needed Sissy's extreme examples to help you understand the major difference in your theory, but you discount them because indeed you don't have to feel your neigbor's pain, and your comfort is far more important than anyone else's experience. I believe that's the same thinking that helped Hitler and all other major attrocities to flourish....
Oh well, I wish I could be surprised by human indecency; it's unfortunate that the only thing that shocks me is meeting kind, just, altruistic intelligent/evolved people nowadays.
...Until it comes to your home, it's not your problem; you're fortunate in this sense, because you can keep black experience out of your reality.

"Feh"! as Sherri would say..... M



ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 1:11:47 PM)

sissy dear, don't know if anyone else has made this comment to you or not, but your fonts are sooooooo difficult to read! the color and the size, and ofcourse they are bold too which makes it even worse....i've yet to read any of your posts because of it...for what it's worth.



ManOwner -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 1:28:49 PM)

Agreed!



ManOwner -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 1:36:46 PM)

BlkTallFullfig, it was not my intent to ignore or make assumptions about the experience of others. I was trying to do just the opposite, so perhaps I did a bad job of it. My original point was to convey to sissy that he was showing a lack of understanding and sympathy for that which isn't a problem for him. Please do not make assumptions about what things I have experienced and what things I am ignorant of. I am in fact extremely interested in hearing the narrative of anyone who is willing to relate their personal experience of being a both a person of size and a person of color. I would actually be very grateful if you would email me your thoughts about it. Thanks.



FelinePersuasion -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 1:54:35 PM)

I don't read any of sissie's posts just cause he rambles to dam much lol. But bright pink is horrible yes.


However for someone like me with poor eyesight how big they apear is a blessing instead of reading normal size 10 font, which on a good day is to small.



MrThorns -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 3:08:41 PM)

I do shy away from the term, "fat"...just as I choose to refrain from using other terms that someone may take offense to, as courtesy is becoming a very rare commodity in today's society.

I do think that some people are tremendously sensitive and should grow a bit thicker skin..I mean..why give someone the power to ruin your day? Why give someone the power to change the way you feel about yourself, even if it is for a few fleeting moments? It just doesn't make sense to me.

As for the BBW/BHM debate...I've taken to calling my girl a HHH (Heapin' Helpin' of Ho.) We're okay with that.

~Thorns



jerseygirlie -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 6:00:37 PM)

i would like to know if any of the fat girls here are alittle pissed at the new jenny craig commercial with kirstie alley? for some reason the commercial bugs the shit out of me, i think it is demeaning, but thats just this sub's opinion. as for everything else said here, well, yes i like the word fat and i have no issue with calling myself fat, it all depends on how it is being used, just like alot of other words, Master can call me a bitch or a whore or a cunt and i love it, but others i am ready to scratch there eyes out. for awhile, when i was younger is seemed like no man that was over 5'4 or 130 lbs would date me, lol, finally i have met my match, Master is 6'3 and 400 lbs, He likes bigger women because we do not break as easily, and excuse me, i am FAR from lazy, i play tennis on a regular basis, walk daily and have 2 active boys, i am always out playing sports with them, so who ever started that rumor is an ass. if you do not like fat women, do not date them, do not look at us, simple as that, i am me, i please one person, and if that is not you, oh well, lol.

[image]local://upfiles/117051/F2525A0A68D84599B0D629FB6B6BF8E6.gif[/image]



ManOwner -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 6:28:39 PM)

Which commercial is that?



jerseygirlie -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 6:42:22 PM)

its the one where kirstie says something like, hey you're fat too, lets lose weight together, not sure why it bugs me so much, lol, just does.



ManOwner -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 6:58:25 PM)

Probably because she is presuming to tell you how fat is "too fat" for you to be.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 7:26:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion
I don't read any of sissie's posts just cause he rambles to dam much lol. But bright pink is horrible yes.

Feline are you trying to engage Sissy in expressing impressions of each other on the boards??? M



jerseygirlie -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 7:56:42 PM)

lmao, like i need her to tell me how fat is too fat for me? THIS is too fat for me, and who believe that anna nicole lost all that weight so fast? and if she did, i am gonna buy me a case of trimspa, baby



siamsa24 -> RE: Fat... (5/11/2005 7:59:27 PM)

I know that it is not the most credible source, but Jane magazine did an informal study on TrimSpa and said that it worked, but only because the tester puked up everything she tried to eat. Not very healthy at all.



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