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RE: finding a new Dom - 5/13/2007 10:08:25 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I think training a person for some other unknown person in the future is nonsense and nothing more than manipulation under the guise of "helping" or "teaching".

Maybe my experience is different because it was short term but a few years back...I met a very young one new, in chat. She was curious and wanted to learn about submission and bedroom submission to begin with. She flew down and I gave her 72 hours of just that.

All indications are, she will remember it for the rest of her life and for all of the right reasons. She went home and found a dom in her area and we both couldn't have been happier. No new profiles, no micromanagment...from just a weekend..she sprouted her wings and took to the air.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 41

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/13/2007 10:20:22 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

MrRodgers,

What you did you did without strings. To me, when you will only offer advice/help/mentoring if someone allows you control over them, that is manipulative bullshit. It is the equivalent of helping an old lady cross a busy street and then turning and asking to be paid. It ain't a good deed then, it is a scam.

Not to you but to a few above, if someone is too stupid/gullible/pathetic to be able to wisely pick a partner, my money says that their choice in a "trainer" will be far worse. Its like saying old people who get scammed should go see a broker because he will "help" them. You just sent a lamb off to slaughter.

FAR better is for our fucked up little community to provide a common front saying "before you do this stuff you need to look at your past patterns, find what you do wrong in picking partners and taking care of yourself and face that and deal with it first" and provide no string ways of doing just that. Perpetuating the bullshit myth that good submissives are helpless little cum catchers is repulsive to me.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 42

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/13/2007 11:54:30 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

To the OP (even though there have been pages of replies).

I think that if I was trying to find a good friend a mate, I would hook them up with other friends that I knew. I would introduce them to people I knew personally. I see this as an acceptable approach to finding a dom for a friend. I would help a dom find a submissive too. As far as the "training" thing, I do not see anything inherently wrong with a submissive sewing her/his wild oats by experiencing her submission in this way as long as each consented to the arrangement. I do not see it as your responsibility to help her screen partners, if you really were helpful to her in a training sorta way, shouldn't she already know how to spot a wanker pretending to be more knowledgeable than he is.

I would instead suggest that she knows your door of friendship is open to her should she need it, and treasure each other's friendship if that is all that this situation has come to be

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GeneGG)

Post #: 43

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/13/2007 6:50:12 PM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

In the same respect, there's a big difference in being a friendly mentor available for advice and "finding someone a new dom". "Screening" all of her emails, or being available in case she has a question about one or two.

If I were going to mentor a new sub, the first thing I'd give her is a pair of Big Girl Panties. But I'm not going to put them on her and check every hour to make sure she's wearing them. That's her responsibility.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 44

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 7:01:23 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I agree with you, about screening "suitors". I would not want anyone screening my emails. I can see value in being trained which has a connotation of "friends with benefits" to it. As long as all parties are having fun, why not? I remember when I was a novice which was not all that long ago, and there were times I yearned to experience submission, I can definitely understand someone wanting to take this route, although it would not have appealed to me personally.

I think that the "trainer" should respect that the "trainee" needs to learn many things on their own, such as how to find a meaningful dynamic. Some things no one else can do for us.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 45

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 12:31:33 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

I've had the pleasure of meeting a few submissives who had couples or Dominants "training" them....

When I began to ask questions as to what exactly this training entailed, the answers were usually...

1. BDSM protocols that the particular community adheres to which is a bit silly to me...since the whole protocol thing seems to change constantly from one little group to the next and I have been able to manage just fine at local events without "training" and only my common sense and basic manners to go by. It amazes me how a submissive needs training in the things I learned as a child regarding manners and in protocols that are going to just have to be relearned most likely in the next relationship.
2. How "collars" and "shackles" feal
3. How all the toys "feal".
4. How to be a submissive by doing chores.
5. "Protection" from all the big bad wolves out there. One went so far as to chaperone all the submissive's dates. The "submissive" was in fact, 23! A chaperone for a 23 year old!

After listening to all this bullshit and questioning the motives and necessity behind it all, all I can say is...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Let me guess, she learned to be comfortable playing sexually with the two of you? Oh boy, you guys really know how to put yourself out on a limb with no risks since you were just "training" her.

I guess perhaps "training" in the BDSM world is what vanilla's call "using hard and throwing away" except in training you get the added benefit of getting to play control freak over whatever moron accepts the bullshit screening.

People wonder why I foam at the mouth over this sort of bullshit. I at least have the balls to tell someone, "hey, I want a kinky fuck buddy but am not willing to offer you much of anything in return, interested?"

Edited to ad: Let me guess, she is bigger than you or not as attractive?

... what he said.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 46

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 6:15:32 PM

GeneGG

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Thank you all very much for your insights ... good and bad ... thank you

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 47

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 8:39:42 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I firmly believe that if someone is not adult enough, confident enough, and knowledgeable enough to choose her own partner for a relationship then perhaps she needs to rethink the entire searching thing and wait until she is ready to function as an adult. Otherwise in her naivete she is open to any fool who wants to use her, under the guise of "training" and "preparing" her.

.... but of course if she were to take your advice and eschew the sreeening, she'd be letting you do her thinking for her, right?

You said in an earlier post that this sort of training is manipulation, which it is. But then so is every other sort of training. Manipulation can be good, bad or value-neutral.

Do the anti-trainers piping up here believe that there are no positive lessons which can be learned in one relationship and applied productively in a subsequent relationship, kinky or otherwise?

And if this sort of thing can happen, as it were, accidentally-in-the-usual-course-of-things, why on earth should we think it couldn't be undertaken intentionally?

This forum, indeed this thread, is packed with advice, practical and theoretical. Some of it is surely advice that a neophyte could benefit from internalizing. Is it unconscionable to share good advice in person in a mentoring context? Why?

Is it just unimaginable that an experienced couple couple could help a begginer explore her gag reflex and her curtsy? Her inhibitions and limits and curiousities? And if her eventual dom doesn't give a crap about curtsies and (like me) gets a big kick out of gagging, well doesn't he have to be a real puke of a person if he can't appreciate his partners previous efforts, intensions, and diligence--even as he "re-trains" her to his taste?

Of course subbie training can address things far more nuanced and subtle than these. In the present climate, though, it seems imprudent to even suggest them, let alone detail them. Those with the relevant experience have some idea what I'm talking about.

Mightn't it possibly be a Very Good Idea for some people, sometimes, to sort through some of this unfamiliar-to-them kinky stuff in a safe setting in which all parties care about one another but which isn't shot-through with the tensions and trials of trying to make a long-term significant-other type relationship work?

Experienced people help newbs learn about camping and swimming and first aid and negotiating and stamp collecting and every other damn thing. One of the modes available for any of these learning experiences is that of personal mentoring. Is BDSM so terribly, terribly special that it stands apart from all aspects of the human condition to which training can apply?

If one of us believes that no human being could engage productively and generously in mentoring then perhaps that person should not engage in mentoring. Kind of reminds me of the the way liars tend to be more likely than others to doubt the veracity of whatever they are told.

Will an interval of training like the one referred to in the OP result in the Universal Perfect Subbie? I'm absolutely confident that neither the trainers nor the trainee from the OP thought so, so why should anyone else attack such a silly notion (which no one has proposed)?

Without doubt, if any of us believe that there is no room for unfair advantage-taking under the guise of training, well they are just being silly. But in my experience, people of good will can interact with integrity in all sorts of ways, including the very sort of training under discussion here.

Congratulations to the (OP) trainers and the trainee for carving out a space of trust in a world that can be pretty dodgey, and using that space to accomplish something mutually beneficial.

Isn't it fun to be the person who has done the very thing that someone (I won't mention his name or anything) is busy screaming can't be done at all?

< Message edited by Noah -- 5/14/2007 8:49:26 PM >

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 48

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 8:50:07 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline

~giving Noah a big fat kiss on the mouth~

Now that's an answer worth its bandwidth. ~smiling~

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to Noah)

Post #: 49

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 8:54:06 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

~giving Noah a big fat kiss on the mouth~

Now that's an answer worth its bandwidth. ~smiling~

Get in line, kermit.

(in reply to slaveish)

Post #: 50

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 10:38:32 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Noah,

What a load of horseshit, you are either being a contrarian or are bored. Nobody is saying that all training or trainers are evil, that would be like saying all used car salesman are sleazy. I have no doubt many have the buyers best intentions at heart. However, as shown time and time again on this board and every other bdsm board, MOST (which by definition implies that exceptions exist) of the time "training" is a thinly disguised way of getting a woman on her back with her ankles in the air.

But I do agree, SOMEWHERE there are nice warm and fuzzy trainers who just want to share their knowledge and only feel comfortable doing so when the person is under some obligation to them. And of course the poor helpless submissive who so needs this help will invariably choose them over the used car salesman because on THIS issue, she has the ability to choose well.

Although, in my opinion, if you aren't willing to freely offer your advice without requiring some sort of obligation in return, that disqualifies you from having the mentality to offer the sort of "training" you speak of.

(in reply to Noah)

Post #: 51

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 10:55:36 PM

ownedandcollared

Posts: 217
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Totalmaster4you

The best way to help your newbi is for the Master to screen the perspective Dominants.

That would certainly screen me out pronto - I won't submit to "screenings" by anyone except the interested fem/sub. If she can't at least speak for herself at an equal and mature adult level with me, we're probably no gonna relate outside of a D/s dynamic - which is at least half the relationship.

Perhaps a little more info on why she needs to be chaperoned to such an extent....? I'm positive I'm not the only Dom who won't be subjected to "hoop skipping" by a 3rd party "protector". When I write to a fem/sub, I like to think (even if delusional) that my mail is for her eyes only - which is the confidentiality anyone gets in return....

Focus.

are you not confidant in your ability to pass the screening? its very much like bringing the prom date home to meet Mom and Dad. That is completely exceptable to almost everyone. What is the difference?

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 52

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/14/2007 11:05:16 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I do not know what the difference is for him, but I can say that most women over a certain age can decide who they want to date on their own... they do not need someone to ok it like they are a child. Some dominants would not feel as though one that needed permission to date them was able to consent to a relationship at all.

You do understand that meeting parents before being allowed to date a person implies that a parent may not consent to your choice of date. If the parent decides that their child will not date a person then they cannot, because their parents have the power to consent for them or deny them their approval. This is because in our society we do not trust teens to make up their own minds on all matters, and we do not trust their judgment.

Most dominants I know (including mine) want a submissive that is a grown up in consenting to a relationship with them, if she can't then they have every right to wonder how she can consent to become their submissive. Is she so lacking in judgment that she needs another to decide if a master/dom is good enough for her? If she has so much trouble how can she articulate her needs on her own? And yes, most dominants that I know of want a submissive that can speak her mind and will let them know who she is, how she feels and what she needs.

I do not blame a dominant for wanting a submissive that is self assured, self reliant, able to make commitments and honor them, knows her own mind... If training can offer a submissive this sort of character development of asserting what she wants and finding it in appropriate ways, I still do not understand why the submissive needs you to do this for them, if you trained her correctly she should be as innocent as a lamb, but as wise as a snake.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedandcollared)

Post #: 53

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/15/2007 6:47:22 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I ran into this whole "training" thing a while back on a date. I had no doubt then that I could pass any screening, I am after all well known locally, I can provide the names of people I have played with locally, etc. I almost left the minute I heard that and in essence did.

Finding out someone believes they need a trainer to me is the same as finding out a person was involuntarily committed. They lack the ability and confidence to find their own path and while they may be perfectly fine people, they are by definition people I want nothing to do with.

(in reply to ownedandcollared)

Post #: 54

RE: finding a new Dom - 5/16/2007 5:54:50 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

They lack the ability and confidence to find their own path and while they may be perfectly fine people, they are by definition people I want nothing to do with.

Yep, that sums up how I feel about it. Commit to being an adult or return to childhood and find someone to parent you.
Plus the big girl panties comment. That's a good one.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 55

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