RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (Full Version)

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ICGsteve -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 4:35:53 PM)
So true, but having a common language makes interaction more productive, and it makes it possible to pass knowledge from one person to another. We have probably beat this label to death for now, but there was value in trying to agree to meanings here. Your tone suggest that this has all been a waste of time, which is not true.

MadRabbit -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 4:39:44 PM)
I can see how you would take it like that, but it was more to show the fallacy of labels.

ICGsteve -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 4:41:50 PM)
I put it that current language is not powerfull enough to deal with our BDSM experiences, but we are saying the same thing.

ImNotSuperman -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 5:00:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Eldritchdancer Good day, forum readers. I had a conversation with a few friends this week and something they asked me was profound enough for me to ponder it. And, as I like to think with other people, I figured I'd post this to the Forums. I'm not posting this to the Ask a Mistress/Master area because it affects us as a whole, by perception. I ask that people not send flames, as this is a legitimate query from some folks who are relatively new and seeking answers. The question I was asked is: "If a Dominant, be they male or female, demands tribute to meet with them at all... how are they different from a prostitute/giggilo? In both cases you are giving something of value just for the pleasure of their company." That one threw me for a loop. I'd never thought of it that way, really, as I don't ask for tribute. I LOVE meeting new people. So, I thought I'd put it out to the forums to discuss, rationally, so I can show the thread to the questioners. Master Darkmoon There are many sorts of occupations where people get paid for sexual gratification. It all comes down to how you define sex, since the definition of a prostitute is someone who gets paid to have "sex". Is someone who does a "tasteful" layout for Playboy selling sex? What if it's a full insertion layout for Hustler? How about a stripper in a club? What if that includes full contact lap dances? If you define "sex" strictly as putting penis in vagina, then since most prodommes don't offer that, then by your definition they aren't prostitutes. And Clinton wasn't a liar, but that's a different topic. If you believe that any sort of sexual gratification is "sex", then that puts a lot of other occupations under the umbrella of prostitution. In the end, isn't it just a word? If our governement put more emphysis on fighting crime, instead of making criminals of consenting adults, this country would be a nicer place. Let the free market system do what it does best.

BoiJen -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 5:45:02 PM)
I just want to say thanks for pointing out that tribute can be a service. It's a job done and time taken and for the most part when that happens people get paid so time is equivalent to money. Tribute paid by washing the dishes after dinner or making dinner. Whichever it is it's still tribute.

BoiJen -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 5:52:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam quote: ORIGINAL: TexasMaam I guess this means that our Physicians, who charge an office fee just for seeing them, Doctors, Surgeons, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, ENT's, ALL are prostitutes, too. We already knew Lawyers were. Oh, that makes Accountants, Veterinarians, Ski Intructors, Art Teachers, Piano Teachers, and anyone else who charges a fee for teaching their expertise a slut and a prostitute as well. What amount of college/university tuition does a Prodomme have to pay for her education to be a Prodomme? Or prostitute a prostitute? I see no comparison. Actually, what I feel is probably more offensive than anything is a fee to be paid from another human just wanting attention :( Kinda sad actually IMO. But then I'm a humanist. (hu·man·ist [hyoo-muh-nist or, often, yoo-] –noun ) 1. a person having a strong interest in or concern for human welfare, values and dignity. This has nothing to do with someone being charged for individual attention. If that's what it was needed then said person needs to go out to a club and make an effort rather than being lazy. It is NOT someone else's responsibility to make another happy. We're all all responsible for our own needs and wants and desires. If we choose to seek payment from someone we wouldn't normally choose to spend time with but they want to spend time with us whats wrong with that? I still stand by the issue of payment is a way to get eachother's needs met. Other than payment what is the "submissive" offering the Pro Domme?

BoiJen -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 5:57:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ICGsteve When I read the thread I don't see most people taking this as a question of ethics, but as a question of honesty about the transaction. Terms such a whore have negative value connotations in the general society but they do not apply in this community. Take the label "slave" for another example, or hell, even "submissive". What's dishonest about saying hey I'ma Pro-Domme I expect payment, when approached by a "submissive" about play?

ICGsteve -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 7:18:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen What's dishonest about saying hey I'ma Pro-Domme I expect payment, when approached by a "submissive" about play? If you have a Dom tell a potential sub "I will be your Dom but you need to show up with a $500 "tribute" to prove to me that you are ready to submit to me" the message is that this interaction is a power exchange between two people. If you have a Dom tell a potential sub "I will be your Dom but that service will cost you $500" then , it a fee for a service. In the first case the financial transaction is advertised as a support the power exchange dynamic, but that the relationship will be a personal one. In the second case the financial exchange is clearly intended to purchase the services of the Dom, the relationship is a business deal. My contention is that very often what is passed off as a personal relationship where money trades hands is in fact a purchase. Doms misrepresent to subs their motivations for being with the sub, so the sub never fully understands the nature of the relationship. He could show up without the cash but he would then be told that he will not be seen because he has not proved his submissiveness, when in fact he will not be seen because he refused to pay for the product he wanted to consume.

MercTech -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 7:35:48 PM)
An interesting concept. If the heart and mind aren't part of it, would it be "masturbation with a partner"? Stefan quote: If paying for domination means it isn't domination...does that mean paying for sex, isn't really sex? quote: ORIGINAL: Jasmyn quote: a peice of meat selected from the shelf and paid for can never truly be dominant. If paying for domination means it isn't domination...does that mean paying for sex, isn't really sex?

Jasmyn -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/13/2007 11:50:22 PM)
Maybe a 'Hysterical Paroxysm Technician" [;)]

Copulo -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 4:05:59 AM)
ICGSteve, This is a very good angle to look at things! A Mistress that wants a tribute often puts over that she is looking for a relationship but the very fact that she demands a tribute means she uses this tact as a marketing ploy to entice people in. If a Mistress is truly looking for a relationship then she will be looking for many things but first and foremost she would want to know and understand his mind 100% because only then can she decide if he has the dynamics that are right for her and of course that her dynamics are right for him. After all this is a two way thing is it not? I know Mistresses that have financial slaves and they do not keep that to one slave. They often have many. The slaves pay tributes into her bank each month and in doing so can take on the title of ‘Mistress XXX’s slave’. If that’s what they want then fine but what they have to realize is that at the end of the day they are just glorified clients and once there money runs out then the ‘relationship’ ends. You see many posts here from female submissives. Because they have much more choice than a male sub they can afford to be far more fussy. They do not pay money tributes. They often state that their submission is a gift that should be treasured and will only be submissive with a deserving dominant. You never hear the dominant male saying ‘why should I do all the hard work, use my tools, my dungeon, my time for some female who just wants to get her arse slapped?’. You don’t hear them say ‘if she gives me a financial tribute it tells me she is a genuine sub!!!’ Why should it be so different for male sub? Are they a lesser species than the fem sub? So ok we get time wasters. We get people who learn to talk the talk but never really have any intention of being who they portray themselves to be on line but how long does that take to work out? If Im talking to a potential sub I will speak to them on the phone within 24 hours. If excuses are made then I move on. Once I have spoken on the phone I will meet for coffee within a week, if they did not turn up and that has only ever happened to me once (and Im not talking no shows within pro Mistressing) then I move on. We will talk in depth over coffee and if we do not see eye to eye then we go our separate ways. It’s a very quick test to see if someone is reliable. A sub that is not paying you a fee or giving you a tribute is far more reliable than a sub that is.

MistressMercia -> RE: Prostitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 4:56:14 AM)
"If a Dominant, be they male or female, demands tribute to meet with them at all... how are they different from a prostitute/gigolo? In both cases you are giving something of value just for the pleasure of their company." Firstly i am not Mistress Mercia , I am her husband Master DeSade , 2ndly i am not her Master i am in my own right commercial as well , 3dly i am a psych. nurse with 5 years working the floors of institutions . Traditional Dominatrixes and Master's with the question as posed whom "Work" read it "Work" 24/7 living and breathing B.D.S.M Professionally where do's that leave us ?Hmmmmmmmmmmm it seems you will pay for the Upkeep of said Property all equipment refurbishing of said equipment (Of cause you dont use them so they dont wear out on YOUR ASS"S) do they , O.H.S issues how many B.D.S.M Practitioners whether Private or Commercial Know "The Universal Standards Of Hygiene" well tell me plz write back all of you who me know Exactly the due process's of Keeping Your Ass's safe from A.I.D's , Hepatitis in several forms ,Genital warts , Herpes , Virus's on un autoclaved instruments of insertion and the list go's on and on , but hey you dont expect a "Tribute Of Servitude" for a University qualified and On The Floor Nurse who did 3 years Uni and 5 years practice i the Real World ....Get it now....No .....o.k....Ohhhh Dominatrix and Mastery Apprenticeships heard of them People well serve your time under a Professional Traditional Dominatrix for 4 to 7 years of that time and then tell ME That i am not worth the tribute whether or whatever that form that takes . Traditional Means " NO SEXUAL PENERTRATION WITH THE MISTRESS OR MASTER " How is that Prostitution ??????????????????????????? tell me Now !! I am the King's Mistress .................Do you Dare call me a Prostitute ..NO.........call me Mistress........ The Real Ruler Of Your Kingdom ...........plz people go back and read your history , find out about B.D.S.M ,and go figure out how good a Pro_Dom you have to be to actually make a living out of this because if you are not ...then you will starve from your lack of Knowledge and Understanding and real time Experience , in our world.the pretentious in this game go quickly by reputation to the graveyard of ambiguity . Regards Master L DeSade

brandx29 -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 4:58:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Copulo ICGSteve, This is a very good angle to look at things! A Mistress that wants a tribute often puts over that she is looking for a relationship but the very fact that she demands a tribute means she uses this tact as a marketing ploy to entice people in. If a Mistress is truly looking for a relationship then she will be looking for many things but first and foremost she would want to know and understand his mind 100% because only then can she decide if he has the dynamics that are right for her and of course that her dynamics are right for him. After all this is a two way thing is it not? I know Mistresses that have financial slaves and they do not keep that to one slave. They often have many. The slaves pay tributes into her bank each month and in doing so can take on the title of ‘Mistress XXX’s slave’. If that’s what they want then fine but what they have to realize is that at the end of the day they are just glorified clients and once there money runs out then the ‘relationship’ ends. You see many posts here from female submissives. Because they have much more choice than a male sub they can afford to be far more fussy. They do not pay money tributes. They often state that their submission is a gift that should be treasured and will only be submissive with a deserving dominant. You never hear the dominant male saying ‘why should I do all the hard work, use my tools, my dungeon, my time for some female who just wants to get her arse slapped?’. You don’t hear them say ‘if she gives me a financial tribute it tells me she is a genuine sub!!!’ Why should it be so different for male sub? Are they a lesser species than the fem sub? So ok we get time wasters. We get people who learn to talk the talk but never really have any intention of being who they portray themselves to be on line but how long does that take to work out? If Im talking to a potential sub I will speak to them on the phone within 24 hours. If excuses are made then I move on. Once I have spoken on the phone I will meet for coffee within a week, if they did not turn up and that has only ever happened to me once (and Im not talking no shows within pro Mistressing) then I move on. We will talk in depth over coffee and if we do not see eye to eye then we go our separate ways. It’s a very quick test to see if someone is reliable. A sub that is not paying you a fee or giving you a tribute is far more reliable than a sub that is. That is so right. But the fact is that most dommes abuse the whole tribute thing. I see people up here making excuses well "an action can be tribute, washing the dishes or making the meal" Ok i would much rather do that than shell out 250 an hour. maybe its just because im in louisiana. I dont know. Most of the dommes i have talked to want money. In that case i would agree wtih the point that they are just high priced prostitutes

HellsMichelle -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 5:02:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: curiousexplorer What I have found interesting is all the prodommes who don't want anything to do with married men, and the reasons they give, and then reading the prodommes who think what they do is not prostitution. If it's not prostitution, why the problem with the wives? Wives don't care about personal trainers, physios or chiros, doctors, or masseuses. They often have an opinion about prostitutes though. So which category do prodommes fit into? A problem I have with this, is that you generalized. NOT ALL PROS WILL NOT SEE MARRIED MEN! For clients, I don't care if they are married or not...I expect them to be! Of the married men who have paid me for my understanding, nearly every single one of them has told me so that I would not mark them too deeply. I respect their wishes and help keep their secret... BUT I also ask them why they do not include their wives in this activity and generate a closer bond to her...Almost half of those claim to HAVE tried it with them, only to have their wives not like it -- thus them seeking out me...the others often say its because they want to maintain the dominant stance in those relationships because that is how their wife likes them. for my personal interactions [sans fee; ie in a non-paying relationships], I avoid married men because I once fell for one so hard that when it did not work out [even after befriending his wife at his request and babysitting their child for them a few times] I cried continually for a year. It was at that moment that I made a promise to myself. While I may not be looking to get married again, I don't want to commit myself on an interpersonal level to someone who has already pledged to another. Y'all do realize that Pros have private lives too, right? And for those they may have vastly different requirements then the ones they set up for clients....I know I do...I would NEVER ask a client to pick up my kids from school, but many of my personal slaves have had to! QUESTION: If you are browsing profiles and you see that the Lady in question has herself listed as a proDom looking for clients, do you still write her offering to serve her privately -EVEN IF SHE CLEARLY STATES IN HER BIO THAT HER PERSONAL STABLES ARE FULL? It happens to me all the time. Many times when I respond about how my services are only available for a fee, the author of the original note to me gets all pissy and tries to belittle me when I have NEVER falsely advertised who I am and what I am about. How am I do NOT get offended when it clearly states in many places on my bio what I do and who I am??? Oh and as for wives approving of those other outsources excepting prostitutes, don't you think that if THIS COMMUNITY CAN'T SEEM TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE that a VANILLA WOMAN might make the same mistake??? Just my two cents and around here you get what you pay for!~Lv M

brandx29 -> RE: Prostitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 5:04:59 AM)
quote: If a Dominant, be they male or female, demands tribute to meet with them at all... how are they different from a prostitute/gigolo? In both cases you are giving something of value just for the pleasure of their company." Firstly i am not Mistress Mercia , I am her husband Master DeSade , 2ndly i am not her Master i am in my own right commercial as well , 3dly i am a psych. nurse with 5 years working the floors of institutions . Traditional Dominatrixes and Master's with the question as posed whom "Work" read it "Work" 24/7 living and breathing B.D.S.M Professionally where do's that leave us ?Hmmmmmmmmmmm it seems you will pay for the Upkeep of said Property all equipment refurbishing of said equipment (Of cause you dont use them so they dont wear out on YOUR ASS"S) do they , O.H.S issues how many B.D.S.M Practitioners whether Private or Commercial Know "The Universal Standards Of Hygiene" well tell me plz write back all of you who me know Exactly the due process's of Keeping Your Ass's safe from A.I.D's , Hepatitis in several forms ,Genital warts , Herpes , Virus's on un autoclaved instruments of insertion and the list go's on and on , but hey you dont expect a "Tribute Of Servitude" for a University qualified and On The Floor Nurse who did 3 years Uni and 5 years practice i the Real World ....Get it now....No .....o.k....Ohhhh Dominatrix and Mastery Apprenticeships heard of them People well serve your time under a Professional Traditional Dominatrix for 4 to 7 years of that time and then tell ME That i am not worth the tribute whether or whatever that form that takes . Traditional Means " NO SEXUAL PENERTRATION WITH THE MISTRESS OR MASTER " How is that Prostitution ??????????????????????????? tell me Now !! I am the King's Mistress .................Do you Dare call me a Prostitute ..NO.........call me Mistress........ The Real Ruler Of Your Kingdom ...........plz people go back and read your history , find out about B.D.S.M ,and go figure out how good a Pro_Dom you have to be to actually make a living out of this because if you are not ...then you will starve from your lack of Knowledge and Understanding and real time Experience , in our world.the pretentious in this game go quickly by reputation to the graveyard of ambiguity . Regards Master L DeSade quote: ORIGINAL: MistressMercia "If a Dominant, be they male or female, demands tribute to meet with them at all... how are they different from a prostitute/gigolo? In both cases you are giving something of value just for the pleasure of their company." Firstly i am not Mistress Mercia , I am her husband Master DeSade , 2ndly i am not her Master i am in my own right commercial as well , 3dly i am a psych. nurse with 5 years working the floors of institutions . Traditional Dominatrixes and Master's with the question as posed whom "Work" read it "Work" 24/7 living and breathing B.D.S.M Professionally where do's that leave us ?Hmmmmmmmmmmm it seems you will pay for the Upkeep of said Property all equipment refurbishing of said equipment (Of cause you dont use them so they dont wear out on YOUR ASS"S) do they , O.H.S issues how many B.D.S.M Practitioners whether Private or Commercial Know "The Universal Standards Of Hygiene" well tell me plz write back all of you who me know Exactly the due process's of Keeping Your Ass's safe from A.I.D's , Hepatitis in several forms ,Genital warts , Herpes , Virus's on un autoclaved instruments of insertion and the list go's on and on , but hey you dont expect a "Tribute Of Servitude" for a University qualified and On The Floor Nurse who did 3 years Uni and 5 years practice i the Real World ....Get it now....No .....o.k....Ohhhh Dominatrix and Mastery Apprenticeships heard of them People well serve your time under a Professional Traditional Dominatrix for 4 to 7 years of that time and then tell ME That i am not worth the tribute whether or whatever that form that takes . Traditional Means " NO SEXUAL PENERTRATION WITH THE MISTRESS OR MASTER " How is that Prostitution ??????????????????????????? tell me Now !! I am the King's Mistress .................Do you Dare call me a Prostitute ..NO.........call me Mistress........ The Real Ruler Of Your Kingdom ...........plz people go back and read your history , find out about B.D.S.M ,and go figure out how good a Pro_Dom you have to be to actually make a living out of this because if you are not ...then you will starve from your lack of Knowledge and Understanding and real time Experience , in our world.the pretentious in this game go quickly by reputation to the graveyard of ambiguity . Regards Master L DeSade hmm ok a few things. Can i call you bill. cuz you sound a bit like bill clinton. "its not sex because there is no penetration" hmmm ok does the male ejaculate? if so... well i would consider it a sexual act =p as for the upkeep of equiptment, and cleaning again as i have stated a few times. a one time fee is one thing. that could cover all those expenses however charging an hourly rate again... i would say was abuse.

jimbo747 -> RE: Prostitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 5:09:20 AM)
The Law makes a distinction between rape and sexual assault and it is by penetration. According to the Law Rape - penetration of penis to vagina Sexual Assualt - all other sexual contact (including male ejaculation or not) . A difference is there.

HellsMichelle -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 5:14:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: worshippingyou Demands for tribute are disappointing, personally, because I'm certainly not seeking a business transaction nor a "quickie for cash" fantasy - but I do understand that others are, or that others have desires which can't readily be satisfied any other way. But I do find it disappointing when the word "tribute" is buried in a nicely-written profile. I'd prefer the author be up-front and straightforward about it - it's a business transaction, not an enquiry for a relationship. I am going to agree with you here. When I am asked about reading profiles and how to write ones that will attract what a person is looking for, I always point out that if the word 'tribute' is in there you should assume they are pro. I also tell people to look at the word "session" vs "playpartner" "playdate" or "scene". There are certain words professionals use vs the terms used within the community....this has changed with the expansion of the online community resources, but ten years ago it helped divide the pros from the public community folks. It's like the change I had to make when referring to my clients. My mentor [who has been pro over 20 years] pointed out that only strippers call their clients 'customers' -- prodoms [according to her] use client. To me they mean the same thing, and since I have done both 'jobs' this little change up had little meaning; but to the general population it made me seem more professional. Strange huh?

jimbo747 -> RE: Prostitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 5:16:37 AM)
I often wonder about guys like you who spend more time in "those women are whores and prostitutes" threads than any other thread. You almost look like you derive an intense amount of pleasure accusing these women of being whores and prostitutes. Makes you scratch your head and wonder why. Im thinking there's some underlying self gratification of putting women down. Perhaps a secret inner hatred of women.

HellsMichelle -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 5:18:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TexasMaam lolololol Sorry ICGsteve, I am not a pro. However, I already paid My dues in apprenticeship for 12 years to one of the world's most accomplished Dominas. Actually, licensing isn't a bad Idea and you are hardly the first to suggest it. I'll be first in line. TM If she isn't shoving past me! I have no problem with the idea of licensing. I do not like the idea of having to pay a stupid fee, but I would gladly take any tests they could come up with. but with the way the country is right now, you would have a hard time getting it passed. Hell, here in Houston the city counsel just closed 100 adult oriented businesses!! We have made money for decades because of our topless bars and now they are getting rid of them in a weak attempt to draw the superbowl back and bring in the olympics! Too bad its probably going to cost us the majority of the conventions that keep the city alive the rest of the year, huh? M

YesMistressIrish -> RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) (5/14/2007 5:20:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HellsMichelle quote: ORIGINAL: curiousexplorer What I have found interesting is all the prodommes who don't want anything to do with married men, and the reasons they give, and then reading the prodommes who think what they do is not prostitution. If it's not prostitution, why the problem with the wives? Wives don't care about personal trainers, physios or chiros, doctors, or masseuses. They often have an opinion about prostitutes though. So which category do prodommes fit into? A problem I have with this, is that you generalized. NOT ALL PROS WILL NOT SEE MARRIED MEN! For clients, I don't care if they are married or not...I expect them to be! Of the married men who have paid me for my understanding, nearly every single one of them has told me so that I would not mark them too deeply. I respect their wishes and help keep their secret... BUT I also ask them why they do not include their wives in this activity and generate a closer bond to her...Almost half of those claim to HAVE tried it with them, only to have their wives not like it -- thus them seeking out me...the others often say its because they want to maintain the dominant stance in those relationships because that is how their wife likes them. for my personal interactions [sans fee; ie in a non-paying relationships], I avoid married men because I once fell for one so hard that when it did not work out [even after befriending his wife at his request and babysitting their child for them a few times] I cried continually for a year. It was at that moment that I made a promise to myself. While I may not be looking to get married again, I don't want to commit myself on an interpersonal level to someone who has already pledged to another. Y'all do realize that Pros have private lives too, right? And for those they may have vastly different requirements then the ones they set up for clients....I know I do...I would NEVER ask a client to pick up my kids from school, but many of my personal slaves have had to! QUESTION: If you are browsing profiles and you see that the Lady in question has herself listed as a proDom looking for clients, do you still write her offering to serve her privately -EVEN IF SHE CLEARLY STATES IN HER BIO THAT HER PERSONAL STABLES ARE FULL? It happens to me all the time. Many times when I respond about how my services are only available for a fee, the author of the original note to me gets all pissy and tries to belittle me when I have NEVER falsely advertised who I am and what I am about. How am I do NOT get offended when it clearly states in many places on my bio what I do and who I am??? Oh and as for wives approving of those other outsources excepting prostitutes, don't you think that if THIS COMMUNITY CAN'T SEEM TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE that a VANILLA WOMAN might make the same mistake??? Just my two cents and around here you get what you pay for!~Lv M Rock on Michelle! You tell it like it is. (((hugs)))

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