RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 9:11:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: merrysbrat

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cefoxitin

Every time I go to someone elce's country, I learn the language  Or at least enough to get by on.  It would be nice if they would return the favor. 

American English in America, that is the only option. 



Exactly. If you were to move to Mexico permanently would you not learn spanish, folks...or would you just expect everyone there to learn english?



The areas that a lot of gringos live and visit are predominantly English speaking.



merrysbrat -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:10:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

LOL merrysbrat most of the points made have been valid, but let me restate this one again.
Within the next 30 years, Hispanic Americans will probably be in the majority and everyone
else will be a minority.
LOL ==Spanish may become the dual language whether we LIKE it or not.
This will basically BE Mexico soon, wake up and smell the coffee.
Hasta la vista baby


If we actually started to protect the border and enforce immigration laws I doubt it.



MzMia -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:13:27 PM)

Oh I totally agree, but we are NOT.
By the time we do, anyone that wants to come here will be here.
I think we have more Mexicans in the United States than we have in Mexico.
Maybe half of all of South America will be here soon.



juliaoceania -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:14:03 PM)

Our government has no intention of slowing down the immigration process to this country. It serves their purposes. If they did want to stop immigration they could imprison/fine those who hire them, and if they did that consistently then we would not have a problem.



merrysbrat -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:14:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: merrysbrat

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cefoxitin

Every time I go to someone elce's country, I learn the language  Or at least enough to get by on.  It would be nice if they would return the favor. 

American English in America, that is the only option. 



Exactly. If you were to move to Mexico permanently would you not learn spanish, folks...or would you just expect everyone there to learn english?



The areas that a lot of gringos live and visit are predominantly English speaking.


And do you see Mexico trying to force English on everyone there... just because of that?



maybemaybenot -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:31:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The areas that a lot of gringos live and visit are predominantly English speaking.


julia:

Would it not be more accurate to say that  in the areas of Mexico that many gringos visit or live, the Mexican people *also* speak English. Just as many tourist areas of any country that caters to Americans.
I spend quite a bit of time in Mexico every year, as it is one of my favorite places.Yes, the Mexicans who work in the areas I travel to, speak English, but when I go into town or where the locals hang out, they are speaking Spanish. At their own dinner tables the conversations are in Spanish, not English.
Tourism is one of the main money makers in Mexico, Large corporations spend a goodly amount of money to teach the help English and usually several other languages. It increases their profits.

                                                   mbmbn







juliaoceania -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:33:07 PM)

First of all, I never said I was in support of Spanish being an official language. We have no official language here, just thought I would remind you of that. My other points were never addressed of all the languages that were wiped out intentionally by English speakers in this country. No one else has ever tried to force a language on anyone here, except English speakers. No one advocated that you be forced to learn anything.

We force kids to learn things all the time that they would rather not apply themselves to, such as math and science, but we force them because we do not want them to grow up ignorant and unemployable. Market forces and globalization have made being bi or tri lingual a very impressive asset to employers. I am all for whatever makes our kids more employable in this world, and giving them tools that they will use in the future.

Now perhaps you do not want to learn Spanish... don't. No one has forced you to learn it. I do not know what your difficulty with Spanish is... it is just a language that people converse in. If employers find a bilingual employee desirable, who are you to say they shouldn't? If someone is here legally and does not want to learn English.. screw em, they are only hurting themselves.

I have a great nephew that is half Mexican American and half Euro-descended American. He is blonde with olive skin, and brown eyes. He can speak English interchangeably with Spanish. He is amazing and he is only 4 years old (he is beautiful too). I am very proud of him.

My point above is that market forces will  convince people to converse in pig latin if they can make a few bucks by doing so. In gringo areas it pays to speak English. In America sooner or later the descendents of all immigrants will speak English (usually second generation are fluent in speaking it, and third can do quite well in school from the Mexican friends I have had, which have been quite a few). The reason why people will eventually speak English is that it is really the lingua franca of planet Earth right now. It is the language of commerce, conquest, and computers. Sooooo, people who are here who want to acquire power will find a way to learn the language, and their children will master it.

I know of no second generation Mexicans that cannot speak and read most simple English.... do you?



merrysbrat -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:35:56 PM)

It's not really the second generation ones we're worried about more the first.



juliaoceania -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:41:20 PM)

Why are you worried? You live in Minnesota, how many Mexicans do you know? I am sure there are at least a few up your way, but not as many as live in my state. Perhaps if you made friends with a few Mexican Americans you would not fear them so much. I know a lot of Mexican Americans I went to school with who were simply brilliant and warm people. They seemed very Americanized to me... all first generation Americans hold on to their own culture. We are a product of that culture that we were raised in. If I dropped you off in the middle of Mexico, told you to learn Spanish, and act Mexican, you would never quite master this. Believe me, this is something that I have contemplated as someone that desires to do ethnography in South America. I will always be an outsider. But if I were to move there permanently, my children would not feel that way most likely.



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:41:36 PM)

I scanned some of the thread but not all.

I don't think there is any benefit to having more than one official language that is not the same as saying there is no benefit from learning a second language.

It's pretty simple in my view. So, we learn Spanish, then there is less motivation on the mexicans part to learn English. Most older people in this country aren't going to learn it anyway. And why should Spanish be shoved down a students throat, when they might prefer to learn chinese, japanese,german, french,russian, whatever. Just because we have a large number of people disrespectful to the cultural underpinnings of the country doesn't mean we should bend to please them. It's quite ridiculous to me.

So, my view is if you want to work in the US, it should be mandatory you speak at least functional english. And if you want to become a citizen you should have to speak fluent English.

Are we going there or are they coming here. I mean I don't go to someone elses house and tell them I don't want to take my shoes off at the entrance hallway, because I don't do it at home. I don't tell them how to speak or what shows to watch in their house. I don't tell them how to do anything in their home. It's the same thing, we in my opinion have "SOME" bad guests spoiling it for all the other immigrants.



merrysbrat -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:46:12 PM)

So, my view is if you want to work in the US, it should be mandatory you speak at least functional english. And if you want to become a citizen you should have to speak fluent English.

My opinion exactly.



juliaoceania -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 10:53:15 PM)

That would be wonderful except one tiny teeny problem... the United States has no official language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 11:06:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

That would be wonderful except one tiny teeny problem... the United States has no official language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States


I know this wasn't addressed to me, but.... couldn't resist.


LOL. My god, so what if we don't have a certified official language. What's your point? We have a language that the super vast majority of the people speak already, it is just a technicality that it's not government sanctioned. Is that really even relevant when applied to the current situation?

So, if that is the case, then that is the first thing that needs to be addressed. English should be  the Official language. It doesn't really make any difference upon the core argument though.

Or does it? If so how?




juliaoceania -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 11:10:29 PM)

Look at the title of the thread, it assumes that English is the official language, it isn't.

I do not see a purpose in an official language, it is a political football to attract people who are anti Mexican. It is like abortion or any other divisive issue.... makes nice press, but it has no substance.




NeedToUseYou -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 11:13:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Look at the title of the thread, it assumes that English is the official language, it isn't.

I do not see a purpose in an official language, it is a political football to attract people who are anti Mexican. It is like abortion or any other divisive issue.... makes nice press, but it has no substance.




If that is the case then it would imply that the government should take no preference on the language taught. So that would exclude forcing spanish as an prerequiste language. It would also exclude forcing businesses or government to cater to any specific language needs of the customer.

At least if it was equally applied.



popeye1250 -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/14/2007 11:25:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Our government has no intention of slowing down the immigration process to this country. It serves their purposes. If they did want to stop immigration they could imprison/fine those who hire them, and if they did that consistently then we would not have a problem.


Julia, you hit the nail on the head.
"It serves *their* purposes."
This is why I am angry with OUR govt.
The people in Washington are serving their own purposes and not taking care of the business of The People!
When this stuff starts happening you get revolutions!
This is why we need to get those people in Washington OUT of Washington.



merrysbrat -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/15/2007 12:22:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Why are you worried? You live in Minnesota, how many Mexicans do you know? I am sure there are at least a few up your way, but not as many as live in my state. Perhaps if you made friends with a few Mexican Americans you would not fear them so much. I know a lot of Mexican Americans I went to school with who were simply brilliant and warm people. They seemed very Americanized to me... all first generation Americans hold on to their own culture. We are a product of that culture that we were raised in. If I dropped you off in the middle of Mexico, told you to learn Spanish, and act Mexican, you would never quite master this. Believe me, this is something that I have contemplated as someone that desires to do ethnography in South America. I will always be an outsider. But if I were to move there permanently, my children would not feel that way most likely.


Actually, I know QUITE a few mexicans. There are definitely more of them than white people in my neighborhood. When did I ever imply I feared them? Quite the opposite, but the mexicans I get close to all speak pretty good english, despite them hanging on the their culture, so I don't see what the problem is with all mexicans who come here learning to speak english.



swtnsparkling -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/15/2007 3:17:48 AM)

quote:

Lacking a work ethic is not a trait of white people. 


It is nowadays..  I can't beleive just how many of this younger generation out there have no work ethic at all.



Bella1965 -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/15/2007 3:57:17 AM)

G'morning all:



(Fast Reply)

As to English being the official language of America, please refer to the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006". Most specifically Amendments 4064 & 4073. Both of which passed. The relevant passages are as follows:

From 4064 -
"The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the national language of the United States of America. Unless otherwise authorized or provided by law, no person has a right, entitlement, or claim to have the Government of the United States or any of its officials or representatives act, communicate, perform or provide services, or provide materials in any language other than English. If exceptions are made, that does not create a legal entitlement to additional services in that language or any language other than English. If any forms are issued by the Federal Government in a language other than English (or such forms are completed in a language other than English), the English language version of the form is the sole authority for all legal purposes."

From 4073 -
"The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the common and unifying language of America. Nothing herein shall diminish or expand any existing rights under the law of the United States relative to services or materials provided by the Government of the United States in any language other than English. For the purposes of this section, law is defined as including provisions of the United States Code and the United States Constitution, controlling judicial decisions, regulations, and controlling Presidential Executive Orders."

America does have a national language and yes, it is English. If you wish learn another language to make yourself more marketable in the work force, by all means, have at it. Do not however try to cram it down the throats of citizens interested in the unification and solidarity of our nation by keeping a standardized language.


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...


[:D]


Bella



VeryMercurial -> RE: Should English and Spanish be America's Official languages? (5/15/2007 4:39:16 AM)

I need to learn Spanish.  I agree it should not be forced, but it is
getting to the point, I feel it is necessary for many to do so.



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