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RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 10:12:51 AM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

They are looking to add attendance in this (they already do, but i heard they are going to shoot for 100% attendance) which would mean if the school had too many students absent it would not make the grade - how the hell is that indicative of how well a teacher performs?  All they are going to do is make going into education much less appealing, who wants to go into something where the strikes against you you can't control?


And there's a teacher shortge to begin with...

Y'know, one time,  long time ago when I was in High School, I occasionally thought that I'd get in to teaching one day, an elective class in programming or someting like that, and after teaching a few basics for the first half of the class, I'd teach them to make a simple computer game that they could learn with and expand later if they got in to it. Do something really cool and be the kind of teacher that I always enjoyed learning from.

Nowadays, I don't have that fantasy too often.

$0.02,

Dauric.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 10:13:27 AM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		My son got fractions in the 3rd grade, i never saw them until like the 6th grade.  They are starting kids on the basics too early when they don't retain what they learn.  As far as teaching skills, i don't remember seeing him get a reading assignment from school at all.  Trust me, I tried to instill a love of book with him as an infant, we'd read, I'd get him books on thing that interested him, but alas, once he dscovered sports, the reading went by the wayside.  I read voraciously, i'll even re-read my favorite books....I've worn out two copies of The Stand by Steven King, and Rose Madder is looking a tad worn.

The objection I have about schools today is that instead of teaching the basics of math, they are teaching kids to use the calcualtor instead.  I bought one for my son when he was in the 8th grade....damn thing must have had 30 buttons on it.....I'd need a college semester class just to figure out how to turn the thing on!  But ny son could use it very easily.  I once asked him what he'd do if his batteries died during a test....he said "No problem, Mom, we all carry extra batteries!"  HE WAS SERIOUS!

Another luxury is the computer and all the equipment with it.  I started out with WebTV...yes, I know, ancient....but anyway, the first time my son saw it, he was looking around, I asked him what he was looking for, he said the printer!  When I told him he'd have to use a pencil and paper, he looked at me like i had another head on my shoulder!  Today's kids have NO idea how to use something as simple as an encyclopedia...remember using research BOOKS in school to do reports?  And pens and longhand?  Then there were the old manual typewriters that you used if you wanted extra credit on the report......in our high school, you couldn't use the electric typewriters unless you had taken typing 2.  I was lucky because I worked for the Biology teacher, he had an electric typewriter.....but no delete keys!  Had the typewriter eraser that usually ripped a hole in your paper.  Oh my.....how far we have come....?

I know teachers are seriously overworked and underpaid.  The disparity of the economics involved in the school systems is a tangible problem.  Added to that, you have teachers teaching 2 or 3 different classes at a time.  I'm a big proponenet of year round school.....teachers spend the first month just trying to get the kids to remember the last year.  Anyone who can take on thetitle of teacher deserves NOTHING but respect, they definitely aren't in it for the money, so you know they do it for the love of the job.  And as it was stated, parents need to take steps in working with their kids too, granted, I couldn't help my son with his math (my worst subject!), but i could still do the Science and English.  If nothing else, it helped us build a bond that I don't see in many parents and kids anymore.  Even tho he's in IL, and I'm here in AZ, he knows that he can talk to me about anything, and I won't judge him, or criticize him.  I cherish that relationship more than any other I have.

well, there's my .02.

m

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 10:22:02 AM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		It's the same with math.  If you want to freak someone out, wait until the register spits out the change due to you when you're buying something and then hand the cashier some change to make the total due back even...you get back $2.00 as opposed to $1.98.  And watch the smoke come out of their brains as they try to figure out what you just did.  Maybe I am a sadist because I love doing that.

(in reply to aviinterra)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 10:24:11 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		My son is in the 1st grade and his teach STILL grades the kids on penmenship. She send home a note at the beginning of the year that basically said, that she knows that its becoming outdated, but she will still expect the children to learn how to write ledgiably (sp?). I commend her, she also still has art supplies out, in place of more standardized books, she has them, but, she knows that children need to have art as a way to express themselves and to grow.

My son knows how to type, as well as he can for his age, and he sees me on the computer at times, yet, he also sees me sit down and WRITE letters and send cards to friends, across down or across the atlantic. He has asked me why I don't just 'send and email,' I told him its more personal to write a note or send a card. He smiled and asked if he could send one; now we make it a weekly thing. He works on his handwriting and he is learning a 'dieing craft.' His teach is giving him extra credit for it now.

Teachers are excpected to teach a LOT, and they are getting the burden of more children in classes, less help and less art and music. I feel bad for teachers, I couldn't do what they do. I commend them. They are fighting an uphill battle. They need the funding and the support, yet, with so many 'must learn adn know this' and that crap, its hard, the gov is taking our children's childhoods away from them. I'm thinking about homeschooling my son until he reaches jr high or high school, so that he DOES get that art, music and at the same time, he learns what he needs in life, like manners and how to write, without a computer.

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(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 10:29:52 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Time to treat NCLB like "Real ID", and tell the Feds to fuck off.


Some districts are thinking of doing that - i believe Los Altos in Ca is seeing if they can find alternative ways to get funding.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 10:43:27 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Talking about old  books, I challenge almost anyone, and especially any young schoolboy to read Silas Marner by George Elliot and not be put off literature for life.
In fact I think I will try and have another "go" at it and see if I can get  anything "out" of it.

Just a fact, I happen to live quite near where G Elliot was based for some time. And Big Bill Shakespeare is not far away either.
Am I licky or cursed ?


Silas Marner was part of my 15 yr old sons GCSE English coursework this year. He enjoyed it and got an A* for his work. He did mention that he found it annoying that as soon as a book is *taken apart* in English, he finds that *all the enjoyment is raped from it*, for him.


agirl







(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 10:45:12 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The idea with Silas Marner was that he had narcolepsy.  Hope that helps seeks.


Ron 

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(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 11:04:29 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		http://www.partiallyclips.com/storage/20061231_GirlPainting_sm.png



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 11:36:49 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: aviinterra

That is so true. I am was born in the early 80s, but I can survive off the grid as they say. But I owe that to my own instint for self preservation and curiosity. I know how to make bread biscuits that will last me a year and not spoil, I can grow my own veggies and I have been out in the wilds of a foreign country for a whole month with little to go on except my instincts. It was the best time in my life, even though then there were many nights that I dreamed of a warm bed instead of a frosty campfire.
Frankly, I find it disgusting to see my own peers think that they sky is falling when their cable is out for a few hours or the cell is dead. I have a close friend with whom I still write letters, yes- as in paper and pen letters with a stamp on them. It gives new meaning to communication.



Excelllent.  It is this very way-tactic that we will need as a species at some point. Being too reliant on the grid is not good.  Keep up the good work.  I dont "dis" the younger generation. I think alot of good can come of the very unique talents they have.

I did not mean to offend anyone if I did. Simply- saying one can never be too preparred.

Terrorism isnt the boogieman.  The boogieman is survival in a world where resources are strained and possibly unavailable.

The generations are cyclical in nature.  Im at teh edge of the baby boom. So all the goodies are picked out...[in a way] yet- the whole field of gerentology will have its guinea pigs.  so that is good for those born later then the baby boom. :-)

Oh BTW- a handwritten letter is like gold these days.  When I cleaned moms attic I saved alot of these for our family treasure chest. I dont know what ever will become of it- but I have stuff on every member of the family from teh last century. My sister is curious. It actually was quite an event cleaning out moms attic.  Her being alive I could ask- mom what was this about.



Pa Hunk, yes, I still have letters written to me by my parents when I was in the Navy.
They both went to Catholic school so their handwriting was very good!
We were taught in the Rhinehardt style of writing in grammer school.
I just figured they still teach writing in school these days.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 12:28:52 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Just to compare - what age is sixth grade in the US?
 
Peace and Rapture


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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 12:34:18 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Just to compare - what age is sixth grade in the US?
 
Peace and Rapture



after the age of 6 it is against the law not to attend school, so if one waits as long as possible to send one's wee one off for indoctrination/kindergarten...6th grade is age 12.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 12:38:36 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Thank you for the info.
In comparrison - age twelve is year 7 or 8 (depending on the month born as the school year is sept-july ) in UK.
 
Peace


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 12:58:50 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

...I'm thinking about homeschooling my son until he reaches jr high or high school, so that he DOES get that art, music and at the same time, he learns what he needs in life, like manners and how to write, without a computer...


your school disctrict will most likely be vehemently against you, especially if you don't agree to include them.  this slave would encourage you, however, to participate in parks and rec programs and/or league sports as a social supplement.
 
you can also be prosecuted for truancy if you don't file your affadavit with the state on time every fall, don't keep records, have someone other than you instructing your wee one, or refuse to include the state-accepted grade appropriate standards for English, History, Science and Math in your personal curriculum.
 
from experience, it is much more rewarding to have them excited about learning and building on what they have learned, instead of bogged down to the least common denominator of literacy in our Great State's pitiful K-12 classrooms.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 1:32:15 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: aviinterra

That is so true. I am was born in the early 80s, but I can survive off the grid as they say. But I owe that to my own instint for self preservation and curiosity. I know how to make bread biscuits that will last me a year and not spoil, I can grow my own veggies and I have been out in the wilds of a foreign country for a whole month with little to go on except my instincts. It was the best time in my life, even though then there were many nights that I dreamed of a warm bed instead of a frosty campfire.
Frankly, I find it disgusting to see my own peers think that they sky is falling when their cable is out for a few hours or the cell is dead. I have a close friend with whom I still write letters, yes- as in paper and pen letters with a stamp on them. It gives new meaning to communication.



Excelllent.  It is this very way-tactic that we will need as a species at some point. Being too reliant on the grid is not good.  Keep up the good work.  I dont "dis" the younger generation. I think alot of good can come of the very unique talents they have.

I did not mean to offend anyone if I did. Simply- saying one can never be too preparred.

Terrorism isnt the boogieman.  The boogieman is survival in a world where resources are strained and possibly unavailable.

The generations are cyclical in nature.  Im at teh edge of the baby boom. So all the goodies are picked out...[in a way] yet- the whole field of gerentology will have its guinea pigs.  so that is good for those born later then the baby boom. :-)

Oh BTW- a handwritten letter is like gold these days.  When I cleaned moms attic I saved alot of these for our family treasure chest. I dont know what ever will become of it- but I have stuff on every member of the family from teh last century. My sister is curious. It actually was quite an event cleaning out moms attic.  Her being alive I could ask- mom what was this about.



Pa Hunk, yes, I still have letters written to me by my parents when I was in the Navy.
They both went to Catholic school so their handwriting was very good!
We were taught in the Rhinehardt style of writing in grammer school.
I just figured they still teach writing in school these days.


Hi popeye.

I went to a  Catholic high school for 3 years. It made college easier. somethings in moms attic were surprisingly in good shape. other papers were in tatters. The attic was unheated-un aaaircodintioned. She lived  there about 20 years- each of us kids lived there at least temporarily.

Mom and gram refuse to learn computers. So do a few friends whom are older in Chicago. One has to have computer skills today-no doubt.  My one friend, [70ish] asked me why does she need it.

So our generation function in a world both online and not online.  

upcoming generations will have no clue how to function in a non online life.

this puts us in a unique posistion per the timeline of history.  it makes us pioneers of sorts. 

100 years from now they will view cursive paper leters as hyroglipherics. There would have to be a curiousisty as to what life was like today. As we are about 10 yrs into the Internet age.  Some would argue it goes back 20 years to commodore 64, TI99 compters and phone cradle modems. 

either was memory lane can be interesting.  I tried not to save every tiny little thing. But I did find some entirgueing letters. At some point in the future I plan to open up the treasure chest for the family to explore- and to discuss. an intimate moment when everyone is there.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 1:47:48 PM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		oh no...what's even MORE fun at freaking out cashiers is when the power goes out, or the computers die, ans they have to COUNT OUT the change w/o the little handy readout telling them what you should be getting back!  OMG!!!!  This is either really funny, or terribly pathetic!

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 1:48:51 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		You do NOT want to get me started on tellers who do not count back currency....



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 3:00:45 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Talking about old  books, I challenge almost anyone, and especially any young schoolboy to read Silas Marner by George Elliot and not be put off literature for life.
In fact I think I will try and have another "go" at it and see if I can get  anything "out" of it.

Just a fact, I happen to live quite near where G Elliot was based for some time. And Big Bill Shakespeare is not far away either.
Am I licky or cursed ?


Oh God! We had to read that B-O-R-I-N-G tome in 9th grade in High School!
Talk about sleep deprivation torture!
I mean I was *Struggling* to stay awake as we took turns reading that POS!
I still don't know what it's about and don't want to know!!!

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 3:30:06 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soultoshare

oh no...what's even MORE fun at freaking out cashiers is when the power goes out, or the computers die, ans they have to COUNT OUT the change w/o the little handy readout telling them what you should be getting back!  OMG!!!!  This is either really funny, or terribly pathetic!


i pretty much leave the store when that happens. cause you know how it ends up. alot of the consumers time wasted. most cash registers have a release button underneath or in back.....

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 3:32:04 PM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline 		At least if they are in front of computers they have to know a little bit of how to read.

If they are playing the MMRPG's like EQ or WoW they have to be able to communicate with other people, and read well enough to be able to do the quests to advance their charectors skills and rankings.  While it's absolutely NOT War and Peace or The Hobbit or any of Mark Twain's books, it's still reading.

Unfortunately, teachers can't teach anymore.  They have to prepare for the end of year test.  And that sucks on so many levels, both for the educators and the children they want to teach.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: losing our reading and writing - 5/14/2007 3:53:44 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		i write with my lefthand. usually my writing is sloppy as is my typing. However i can do calligraphy pretty well. I also studied handwriting analysis for a while. the premise is that the handwriting should not slant left or right- ..along with a whole batch of rules.   one needs about a page- of handwriting to determine such. I explored this on some of my older papers- and the science semms fairly solid. tho- sorta how a psychopath can fool a lie detector test- the same applies to handwriting analysis.

(in reply to welshwmn3)
Profile   Post #: 40
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