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[Poll]

Gas prices

I've cut back already

54% (40)

I won't cut back even if it's $10.00 a gallon lol

6% (5)

$4.00 a gallon is when I slow down

1% (1)

$5.00 a gallon is when I slow down

2% (2)

I need a @#$%! bicycle

10% (8)

I need a rickshaw pulled by a subbie

24% (18)

Total Votes : 74

(last vote on : 2/21/2008 4:19:52 PM)
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RE: Gas prices - 5/22/2007 7:55:03 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
It's a good idea, farglebargle, but pointless and futile.

And the invasion of Iraq wasn't? I mean, that's what this is about here.

The total and complete victory of western-secular civilization against all others.

That's what we *could have had* if we spent the money we wasted on Iraq on Energy Independence.

It's too bad Bush is an lunatic, who is convinced the Rapture is a-coming, it makes having a "Plan B" look like you don't have faith. And it makes talking the long view impossible when you bet on the whole "Apocalypse" thing, so there's no thinking beyond us "All going to Jesus"....

In fact, some might consider that neglect of our CHILDREN'S national security to be Treason, don't you think?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 101

RE: Gas prices - 5/22/2007 8:48:10 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

That reply had absolutely nothing to do with what I had said.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 102

RE: Gas prices - 5/22/2007 9:26:20 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

That reply had absolutely nothing to do with what I had said.

That's only because you don't see the vastness of the conspiracy, Sanity. You see, the ONLY sources of information that should ever be trusted are the Keeper Of Obscure Knowledge websites, personally approved by Alex Jones. And YouTube of course.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 103

RE: Gas prices - 5/22/2007 9:54:05 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Profits of major oil companies in 2005 and 2006 were considerably higher than in previous years. The big percentage increase helped support the impression that oil profits are excessive. But business analysts stress that other measures should be considered in assessing a company's or industry's profit picture. One important measure is profit margin – net income (profits) divided by sales. In the case of oil and gas companies, total sales consist of the money they receive from selling their products as well as revenue received from any other sources. Net income is the money left over after all costs and taxes are paid.

In recent years, oil profits generally have remained on a par with or slightly above those of other major industries. As the chart indicates, an analysis of data from 2000 through 2005 shows that the average profitability of oil and natural gas companies (5.9cents per dollar of sales)2 has been slightly above the profitability of all industries combined.

2 does not represent the profit margin of gasoline at the retail level.

http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm

For example, Exxon’s profit margin for its high-earnings quarter (dividing $9.9 billion by revenue of $100 billion) was almost 10 percent. But a look at Fortune’s Global 500 list from July 2005 shows that is not unusual – and some companies surpassed that in earlier quarters. Johnson and Johnson showed profits of almost 18 percent in the July report, while Bank of America enjoyed more than 22 percent.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/news/2005/news20051102.asp

Even as their overall profits have soared, major oil companies are earning a relatively modest 8.7 percent profit margin -- the portion of the sale of each barrel that hits the bottom line. Major banks and drug makers, for example, enjoy profits margins that are twice as big.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8646744/

So sure the snapshot pictures have them exceeding the 5-7% but on average the profit margin is between 5 and 7 % as cited in Conoo Philips and this chart from

ExxonMobil Chevron BP 5-year average return on equity 27.2% 21.8% 21.5% 5-year net profit margin 9.6% 6.7% 7.6%
Source http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/03/16/exxonmobil-vs-sasol-exxonmobil.aspx

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 104

RE: Gas prices - 5/22/2007 10:05:44 PM

lonlyrossInNeed

Posts: 3144
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

gas here today was over 3.50 a gallon i think today

_____________________________

To know what pain is hurts the most
pain is not just a wound in your flesh
pain is a dagger in your heart

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 105

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 12:43:47 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Thank you for admitting that your concern for our environment and reduction of dependence on foreign oil vanishes when it might cause you a fraction of inconvenience or cost you a few of those many dollars you make standing around, driving up the prices of imported goods.

Lovely snarky response.

As I pointed out, TheHeretic, I have had it in numerous times to numerous mechanics and the dealer over the last 4 years and nothing they did made much of a difference in the gas usage of that car. Even when they fixed the things you suggested.

Your demands that it has X or Y wrong with it remind me of that Congressman who pronounced Terry Schiavo a vegetable by watching her on video.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 106

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 6:23:45 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

BTW since Exxon Mobil declared the 9.92 billion as profit that means the US government just on the Corporate Income Tax, took in est 3.77 billion in taxes on that profit. (Which we all paid for them embedded in the price) and that's for the quarter.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 107

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 6:37:14 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

BTW since Exxon Mobil declared the 9.92 billion as profit that means the US government just on the Corporate Income Tax, took in est 3.77 billion in taxes on that profit. (Which we all paid for them embedded in the price) and that's for the quarter.

Archer:
It would appear from your post that the embedded tax consumers pay the oil companies goes to the feds in the form of the oil companies taxes. Do you suppose that if the fed did not collect corporate taxes that the oil companies would pass that savings on to us?
thompson

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 108

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 6:39:26 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Thank you for admitting that your concern for our environment and reduction of dependence on foreign oil vanishes when it might cause you a fraction of inconvenience or cost you a few of those many dollars you make standing around, driving up the prices of imported goods.

Lovely snarky response.

As I pointed out, TheHeretic, I have had it in numerous times to numerous mechanics and the dealer over the last 4 years and nothing they did made much of a difference in the gas usage of that car. Even when they fixed the things you suggested.

Your demands that it has X or Y wrong with it remind me of that Congressman who pronounced Terry Schiavo a vegetable by watching her on video.

Sinergy

Thanks

Do remember that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

I'm pretty sure I said it was a speculative diagnosis. Such puzzles intrigue me. I make no claim to being a mechanic, just a guy who has been the last owner on a number of clunkers and tried to squeeze every bit of use out of them. If you've been driving the thing for four years, it must have passed a smog inspection at least once and that would rule out many of the 'well, duhh' solutions. Happy hunting on your next vehicle purchase.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 109

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 7:19:57 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Thank you for admitting that your concern for our environment and reduction of dependence on foreign oil vanishes when it might cause you a fraction of inconvenience or cost you a few of those many dollars you make standing around, driving up the prices of imported goods.

Lovely snarky response.

As I pointed out, TheHeretic, I have had it in numerous times to numerous mechanics and the dealer over the last 4 years and nothing they did made much of a difference in the gas usage of that car. Even when they fixed the things you suggested.

Your demands that it has X or Y wrong with it remind me of that Congressman who pronounced Terry Schiavo a vegetable by watching her on video.

Sinergy

Thanks Do remember that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

I'm pretty sure I said it was a speculative diagnosis. Such puzzles intrigue me. I make no claim to being a mechanic, just a guy who has been the last owner on a number of clunkers and tried to squeeze every bit of use out of them. If you've been driving the thing for four years, it must have passed a smog inspection at least once and that would rule out many of the 'well, duhh' solutions. Happy hunting on your next vehicle purchase.

Rich:
As I am sure you are aware the internal combustion engine is just not that complicated of a device. Since he has taken it to the experts who know that the first thing you do is pull the plugs and see what kind of fire is in the combustion chamber,,,rich, lean or somewhere in between. If the plugs read "correct mixture" there is nothing wrong with the engine. Consequently it would have no problem passing smog here in California. If brake wear and chassis mounted bearing wear is normal this would limit the problem to optimistic ink on the widow sticker, which has been documented to exist in abundance.
thompson

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 110

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 7:28:10 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Profits of major oil companies in 2005 and 2006 were considerably higher than in previous years. The big percentage increase helped support the impression that oil profits are excessive. But business analysts stress that other measures should be considered in assessing a company's or industry's profit picture. One important measure is profit margin – net income (profits) divided by sales. In the case of oil and gas companies, total sales consist of the money they receive from selling their products as well as revenue received from any other sources. Net income is the money left over after all costs and taxes are paid.

In recent years, oil profits generally have remained on a par with or slightly above those of other major industries. As the chart indicates, an analysis of data from 2000 through 2005 shows that the average profitability of oil and natural gas companies (5.9cents per dollar of sales)2 has been slightly above the profitability of all industries combined.

2 does not represent the profit margin of gasoline at the retail level.

http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm

For example, Exxon’s profit margin for its high-earnings quarter (dividing $9.9 billion by revenue of $100 billion) was almost 10 percent. But a look at Fortune’s Global 500 list from July 2005 shows that is not unusual – and some companies surpassed that in earlier quarters. Johnson and Johnson showed profits of almost 18 percent in the July report, while Bank of America enjoyed more than 22 percent.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/news/2005/news20051102.asp

Even as their overall profits have soared, major oil companies are earning a relatively modest 8.7 percent profit margin -- the portion of the sale of each barrel that hits the bottom line. Major banks and drug makers, for example, enjoy profits margins that are twice as big.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8646744/

So sure the snapshot pictures have them exceeding the 5-7% but on average the profit margin is between 5 and 7 % as cited in Conoo Philips and this chart from

ExxonMobil Chevron BP 5-year average return on equity 27.2% 21.8% 21.5% 5-year net profit margin 9.6% 6.7% 7.6%
Source http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/03/16/exxonmobil-vs-sasol-exxonmobil.aspx

Archer:
I am sure it was only an oversight on your part and not an attempt to be disingenuous.
You failed to point out that the price of the stock also went up.
If I am earning about 10% dividend on my investment and my investment value goes up by say 300% now I am making 10% on a bigger number than I was before. Added to this is the increased value of my investment. If you only put the numbers into the equation that you want then you will necessarily get the answer you want.
thompson

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 111

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 9:52:09 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Thanks Do remember that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

True.

Dont quit your day job. I do this sort of thing professionally.

quote:

Happy hunting on your next vehicle purchase.

In any event, I am narrowing down the car I will get next.

If I can get an alternative fuel car the same size as a Fit I will probably go that route.

I have looked in to hybrids.

Regular hybrids have a large battery which is used to start the motor from a dead stop, and take over for the gas motor when there is no real pull on the engine. The main drawback is the limited lifetime of the battery, and the $5000+ replacement cost. The mileage from these, if I remember correctly, averages out in the high 30s and low 40s.

Unlike regular hybrids, the Saturn Hybrid has a bank of 12 volt car batteries hooked in series which provide an energy assist to the drive train at all times. This bumps the gas mileage up into the high 30s. The benefit of this one is if the battery(s) go out, it costs $100 per battery to replace.

I was considering keeping the Honda for long trips and getting a Xebra, but the 80 mile range between charges seems a bit limiting.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 112

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 10:38:28 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Diesel/Electric -- Just like the locomotives and steamships...

Run the Diesel @ 900 RPM, right in the sweet spot, and use the extra juice to charge the batteries.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 113

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 11:09:07 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Diesel/Electric -- Just like the locomotives and steamships...

Run the Diesel @ 900 RPM, right in the sweet spot, and use the extra juice to charge the batteries.

Would this require thousands of dollars of retrofit, or is there a manufacturer who provides one as is?

If I go the retrofit route, I will probably get an 80s deisel car (like a Rabbit or a Mercedes) and have it converted to run vegetable oil. Keep a few 5 gallon cans from Costco in the trunk for long drives.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 114

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 3:19:52 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Diesel/Electric -- Just like the locomotives and steamships...

Run the Diesel @ 900 RPM, right in the sweet spot, and use the extra juice to charge the batteries.

Would this require thousands of dollars of retrofit, or is there a manufacturer who provides one as is?

If I go the retrofit route, I will probably get an 80s deisel car (like a Rabbit or a Mercedes) and have it converted to run vegetable oil. Keep a few 5 gallon cans from Costco in the trunk for long drives.

Sinergy

Sinergy:
Do not mess with trying to convert your diesel to run on veggie oil. leave it as is and if you choose use bio-diesel.
http://energy.cas.psu.edu/soydiesel.html
Check the price of veggie oil at costco...it is more expensive than diesel
Bio-diesel is made from veggie oil by mixing lye and methanol with the veggi oil. It well separate by weight into soap (heavy) and bio diesel (light)
thompson

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 115

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 3:23:21 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Diesel/Electric -- Just like the locomotives and steamships...

Run the Diesel @ 900 RPM, right in the sweet spot, and use the extra juice to charge the batteries.

farglebargle:
The sweet spot (power band) on all but the largest of diesels is typically 1700 rpm to 2100 rpm.
thompson

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 116

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 5:11:59 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Rise of a Stock value goes onto the company's ballance sheet. and thus is recorded as profit.

And yes I do believe the savings on embedded taxes would be passed on to the consummer.
Competition would end up making it nessisary the first time a company decided to try to snag another .05 market share from it's compeditors they would drop their price and the rest would have to follow suit or lose market share.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 117

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 5:27:29 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Rise of a Stock value goes onto the company's ballance sheet. and thus is recorded as profit.

And yes I do believe the savings on embedded taxes would be passed on to the consummer.
Competition would end up making it nessisary the first time a company decided to try to snag another .05 market share from it's compeditors they would drop their price and the rest would have to follow suit or lose market share.

well they work it! they all do.

but the real problem is the invisible numbers.

you make 10% per year on profits from dividends, the corp writes that off as a payout.

The invisible part is that over 3 years you make 30%, mean time the feds are pumping more cash into the sytem, thus you have more paper in your pocket that buys the same as if you never made that 30% as the devaluation of the dollar ate it up. mean time the taxation goes up. its a very nasty worl in the money biz and its like who was it james madison? jnope adams

"All of the perplexities, confusion, and distress in America arises, not from the defects of the Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." -- John Adams, Founding Father

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 118

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 5:31:11 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Diesel/Electric -- Just like the locomotives and steamships...

Run the Diesel @ 900 RPM, right in the sweet spot, and use the extra juice to charge the batteries.

farglebargle:
The sweet spot (power band) on all but the largest of diesels is typically 1700 rpm to 2100 rpm.
thompson

I'm talking about 2030. After a decade of development, these engines will be the size of a lawnmower engine. But all this is pointless. We don't HAVE TO BURN OIL. We have all the energy we need raining from the sky, provided free of charge, by the sun.

We just would rather kill a half million people than build buckets to catch the energy.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 119

RE: Gas prices - 5/23/2007 5:35:10 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I'm talking about 2030. After a decade of development, these engines will be the size of a lawnmower engine. But all this is pointless. We don't HAVE TO BURN OIL. We have all the energy we need raining from the sky, provided free of charge, by the sun.

We just would rather kill a half million people than build buckets to catch the energy.

do you know that there is a 360,000 volt difference in potetial between the ionospere and the ground? i mean 24/7/365/forever?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 120

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