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RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 9:06:16 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

It's horribly disrespectful to call a police officer a "pig".  I don't understand that kind of unfounded rudeness.  Sure, there are some bad cops.  Just as there are bad people in every genre of work.  However, there are good ones, too, and they deserve your respect.


As pointed out, how does one tell the difference? 
There are pigs wearing badges, just as there are bad people in every other line of work...why should one group be immune from criticism of their bad apples?

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 10:14:48 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

It's horribly disrespectful to call a police officer a "pig". I don't understand that kind of unfounded rudeness. Sure, there are some bad cops. Just as there are bad people in every genre of work. However, there are good ones, too, and they deserve your respect.


When the GOOD COPS start putting bullets into the heads of the BAD COPS, then maybe they'll start EARNING our respect again.

Until then? They're ALL BAD COPS.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 10:20:57 AM   
peepeegirl5


Posts: 214
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		They're just another gang.

The LAW is the first and last bastion of slavery.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 10:22:08 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

I don't think it's acceptable to use the word "pig" for any officer.  It is demeaning.


NakedOnMyChain:
So you think we should be respectful to crooked cops...why?
thompson

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 10:29:39 AM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not nearly this old, but I saw a public service announcement from the 1950s on TV once.  It featured a popular radio/tv/movie cowboy, Hopalong Cassidy, entreating children not to use the word "cop" to refer to the police.  Wish I could find that on youtube!

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 10:32:54 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5

They're just another gang.

The LAW is the first and last bastion of slavery.


peepeegirl5:
Exactly right...otherwise they would have arrested your father for hiring illegal aliens.
thompson

(in reply to peepeegirl5)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 11:37:07 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

It's horribly disrespectful to call a police officer a "pig".  I don't understand that kind of unfounded rudeness.  Sure, there are some bad cops.  Just as there are bad people in every genre of work.  However, there are good ones, too, and they deserve your respect.


As pointed out, how does one tell the difference? 
There are pigs wearing badges, just as there are bad people in every other line of work...why should one group be immune from criticism of their bad apples?


For the same reason we shouldn't judge a race of people for the bad behavior of a few of its people.  It's similar to using well-known deragatory terms for Mexicans and blacks.  There are bad people and people that act in stereotypical ways in every shape, size, profession, color and creed.  I agree there are bad cops.  I know a couple of them.  I don't think they deserve our respect.  I am not defending them.  I am defending that there is no reason to overgeneralize.  Calling someone a "pig" is simply ignorant.  Call them unjust, call them a crook, call them unprofessional, call them a liar, call them dirty, call them an asshole if you want.  But when we delve into the realm of stereotypical slurs, it goes nowhere positive.

The above is a response directly to Alumbrado, but also to thompsonx and farglebargle.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 2:04:44 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Thank you for the response NOMC.

I agree that 'pig' is a stereotype, and a negative shortcut for saying '...unjust, a crook, unprofessional, liar, dirty', et al.
And as with many stereotypes, it is borne out by the examples of those who fit it.
A shame it has to be said at all.

But, I don't see quite the level of disrespect that you appear to when labelling something that we all know happens everyday.

A good first step in excising an evil is to call it what it is, and therein lies the difference IMHO between this term, and some other derogatory slurs.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/21/2007 2:19:15 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

It's horribly disrespectful to call a police officer a "pig".  I don't understand that kind of unfounded rudeness.  Sure, there are some bad cops.  Just as there are bad people in every genre of work.  However, there are good ones, too, and they deserve your respect.


As pointed out, how does one tell the difference? 
There are pigs wearing badges, just as there are bad people in every other line of work...why should one group be immune from criticism of their bad apples?


For the same reason we shouldn't judge a race of people for the bad behavior of a few of its people.  It's similar to using well-known deragatory terms for Mexicans and blacks.  There are bad people and people that act in stereotypical ways in every shape, size, profession, color and creed.  I agree there are bad cops.  I know a couple of them.  I don't think they deserve our respect.  I am not defending them.  I am defending that there is no reason to overgeneralize.  Calling someone a "pig" is simply ignorant.  Call them unjust, call them a crook, call them unprofessional, call them a liar, call them dirty, call them an asshole if you want.  But when we delve into the realm of stereotypical slurs, it goes nowhere positive.

The above is a response directly to Alumbrado, but also to thompsonx and farglebargle.


NakedOnMyChain:
Perhaps we have a double standard here because there are numerous police organizations who refer to themselves as pigs.
thompson

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 2:06:06 PM   
LdyScarletDomina


Posts: 118
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		My brother (the cop) has 2 bumper stickers on the back of his car.  One says "Bad cop, no donought."  The other is a photo of a pig in a police car with the caption "I smell bacon"

He tells me all the time that one has to learn that negative feed back keeps you humble and reminds you that its not personal.  I am sure he gets pulled over a few times a week, I've heard some HORRIBLE stories of other officers who have harrassed him for his stickers only to turn beet red in furious embarrassment when he pulls out his badge.  He says to me that any cop (and he uses the word cop interchangeable with police and deputy) that doesn't under stand the phrase dont take it personal needs a bumper sticker of his own. 

*shakes my head* maybe my brother is in the wrong profession. 

Lady Scarlet

_____________________________

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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 2:12:46 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, very professional:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401013.html

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/42/159.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas

The police here are actually profesional

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 3:06:43 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		ok- I also have a cousin chief of police in a metropolitan area.

LEOs have a high rate of suicide. 

We are governed by the rule of law. Without such- the brutalist would push the meak around.....everywhere. People would take revenge/retribatuion into their own hands.  civility would break down- might then would equal right.

Just think= there is a burly DUDE behing bars that would love to own, perntrate YOU, take your money, your possessions, your everything.   Would this charactar do YOU a favor and be nice?  ?!

Ild thank the cop, before I would take the chance on anarcky.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 3:08:26 PM   
Tuomas


Posts: 242
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		How come no one here talks about turning in the bad cops? I mean, whenever the police do something they aren't supposed to, here people complain and the officer is kicked out. Can't you complain about the police in the US?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yes, very professional:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401013.html

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/42/159.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas

The police here are actually profesional


Oh, how I knew someone would drag that up The DINA was not police, but the equivalent to the US CIA. Now, just think of the CIA doing the same illegal stuff in the US as they do outside of it, and you've got the DINA. In fact, Contreras was on the CIA payroll. Thank you America...

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 3:17:07 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas

How come no one here talks about turning in the bad cops? I mean, whenever the police do something they aren't supposed to, here people complain and the officer is kicked out. Can't you complain about the police in the US?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yes, very professional:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401013.html

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/42/159.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas

The police here are actually profesional


Oh, how I knew someone would drag that up The DINA was not police, but the equivalent to the US CIA. Now, just think of the CIA doing the same illegal stuff in the US as they do outside of it, and you've got the DINA. In fact, Contreras was on the CIA payroll. Thank you America...



thats a question for ole lee baca, [?former LA police cheif] in LA- they take such complaints to obsceen hieghts.

if you are pulled over keep your hands on the steering wheel.  when asked for ID- tell the cop where it is- and that you will need to get it out of your pocket/glovebox etc..

also- dont keep contraband in your car.   ....

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 5:43:33 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I'll confess that I don't know much about Chile except that it's starting to produce some very fine wine, and I'm willing to be persuaded that Chile has come a long way over the past decade, but I'm NOT willing to accept just yet that Chile has much to teach America about how to control the police.  You mentioned once in this thread that right-leaning people tend not to fear the police.  Coming out of a criminal right-wing dictatorship might contribute to that point of view, wouldncha think?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas

How come no one here talks about turning in the bad cops? I mean, whenever the police do something they aren't supposed to, here people complain and the officer is kicked out. Can't you complain about the police in the US?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yes, very professional:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401013.html

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/42/159.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas

The police here are actually profesional


Oh, how I knew someone would drag that up The DINA was not police, but the equivalent to the US CIA. Now, just think of the CIA doing the same illegal stuff in the US as they do outside of it, and you've got the DINA. In fact, Contreras was on the CIA payroll. Thank you America...

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 8:48:09 PM   
Tuomas


Posts: 242
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Well, I'll confess that I don't know much about Chile except that it's starting to produce some very fine wine, and I'm willing to be persuaded that Chile has come a long way over the past decade, but I'm NOT willing to accept just yet that Chile has much to teach America about how to control the police.  You mentioned once in this thread that right-leaning people tend not to fear the police.  Coming out of a criminal right-wing dictatorship might contribute to that point of view, wouldncha think?

If that's how you interpret it, but I was merely trying to point out that not all police officers are bad. Since I don't stay long enough in the US to make friends with the police, I don't know any American officers, and I can only talk about what I know. It has always struck me as odd comparing Americans friends with Chilean friends: The former's attitude runs more or less along the lines of the topic title, while the latter is more along the lines of "they do the best they can given the situation".

I find this particularly interesting because Americans are supposed to have more control over their police force (with police chiefs/comissioners being elected; the police being a part of the municipal government; etc) than Chileans under a centralized, national system. Why is this not the case?

Another thing is yes, there are a few rotten apples in the barrel, and you can't give anybody or institution a blank cheque of trust. However, the whole "don't trust a pig" attitude seems kind of really immature; one would expect an experienced person to judge each police officer on their merits and not a blanket distrust or trust. Neither blind trust or abject paranoia are good.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 8:51:34 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		There have been so many well-publicized examples of police misconduct in American society that most Americans are skeptical at best.  I trust my local police; they've responded whenever I've had to call them, and I believe they do their job conscientiously.  (Edited to add: I even contribute to their fucking benefit fund!)  And whenever I've had to ask a police officer for directions or what not, he (or she) has responded courteously.  But my general attitude is in line with the thread title.  I would never trust a cop until he proved his trustworthiness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas

Another thing is yes, there are a few rotten apples in the barrel, and you can't give anybody or institution a blank cheque of trust. However, the whole "don't trust a pig" attitude seems kind of really immature; one would expect an experienced person to judge each police officer on their merits and not a blanket distrust or trust. Neither blind trust or abject paranoia are good.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 5/31/2007 8:52:42 PM >

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 9:53:14 PM   
SardonicAss


Posts: 32
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

That "Leftist Fear of the the Police" hypothesis is FALSE.

*I*, the original poster, am so far on the Right, George Bush is a COMMIE.

Nice attempt at pointless Lib Bashing, though. I'm sure the "ALWAYS TRUST A COP" propagandists would approve.

We have a 2nd Amendment SO WE DO NOT NEED POLICE.







This is the most rediculous comment I think I've witnessed tonight. Hey fargle, if you join a militia, let me know. I will arm up faster than Charleton Heston on angel dust to protect myself from people like YOU.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 5/31/2007 10:42:10 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

I find this particularly interesting because Americans are supposed to have more control over their police force (with police chiefs/comissioners being elected; the police being a part of the municipal government; etc) than Chileans under a centralized, national system. Why is this not the case?


I think it is more the case, but that doesn't mean that it is easy or foolproof.
Still, a US citizen has more recourse against police abuse at the local level, than say, trying to get the director of the the NSA to fire or jail an errant employee.

There is a group with a web site called policeabuse.org   
They include videos of people who went into local stations and simply asked for a complaint form, with a hidden camera in tow.
In some cases they were treated with professionalism and respect, in some cases they were outright threatened.

At the end of the day, people with a corrupt need for power over others are going to gravitate toward positions that give them that power.

(in reply to SardonicAss)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: NEVER trust a Pig. - 6/1/2007 3:45:53 AM   
ennaozzie


Posts: 201
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		I have just finished a work contract where i worked in a Police Station - no i was not a cop, i did admin work there, but you do have every right to ring up to make sure that this person is genuine, even before you wind down the window if you are stopped while in your car.

But if they are in a police car i would hazzard a guess they are real Policemen.

I think more in the cities they have Police walking a beat but in most out of town places they would not be without a police car, well that is in Australia anyway.

Yeah it can be a pain, but i would rather them check more, and yes there are bad cops but there are also good one, like every bunch there is always bad and good.

beanie

< Message edited by ennaozzie -- 6/1/2007 3:48:17 AM >

_____________________________

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If coffee hurts your eye's take the spoon out of the mug

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 60
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