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RE: no meaning at all - 5/22/2007 8:31:51 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

Problem is weather or not we "Understand well enough" the discrepensies are enough to make communication hard. Lets say there is a Master looking for a slave and they come to this sight and see all the slave and then e-mails one and finds out well they arent matching up to what they think a slave is then you get name calling and confution and hurt feelings.. Thinks like "your not really a slave" or "your not really a Master"

I dont know these are just my thoughts based on the HUGE amount of fake and wanabe posts we get here let alone the amount of threads asking for defanitions!

it was just a thought I had is all

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 61

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 6:49:01 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

LA, I know we have very different views on this subject, which is quite all right. I don't see the logic though in your current statement.

If someone warps words so that they mean killing innocents is what their religion advocates, just accepting "the differences and [not trying to] make others wrong" is not a viable answer. It IS the openess here that is causing the problem. The fact that someone believes they have the right to make words mean anything they want, and that allows them to pervert those words to justify killing. That is an openess that is not justified. They do not have that right.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 62

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 7:02:40 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Problem is weather or not we "Understand well enough" the discrepensies are enough to make communication hard. Lets say there is a Master looking for a slave and they come to this sight and see all the slave and then e-mails one and finds out well they arent matching up to what they think a slave is then you get name calling and confution and hurt feelings.. Thinks like "your not really a slave" or "your not really a Master"

I dont know these are just my thoughts based on the HUGE amount of fake and wanabe posts we get here let alone the amount of threads asking for defanitions!

Magik's slave

I'm in agreement with you here, and here is why:

I believe we do a grave injustice to the newbies who come here desperately seeking to understand if they are sub or slave, Dom of Master when we respond with "well the words mean anything you want them to mean". It's about as useful as saying to a person asking directions, well you could north or south or east or west and you'll get there eventually.

It is not that sub/slave, Dom/Master don't have incredible shades of meaning depending on the individual; they do. And for anyone who has enough knowledge and experience to know what the words mean to them, that is great.

But I believe we owe it to the newcomers to give them a basic underlying definition to those terms, with the understanding that as they grow, their understanding of those words will likely grow and change to suit their particular relationship.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 63

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 7:28:19 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Again it's not the meaning which is the problem, it's the actions taken FROM that meaning which is the problem.

Same as with Magik- somehow I get along just fine even though I know for a fact that many people do not agree with my labels or how I use them. How on earth is that possible? How come I'm not out there telling people that they suck? Or aren't real?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 64

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 7:53:05 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

...then you get name calling and confution and hurt feelings.. Thinks like "your not really a slave" or "your not really a Master"...

sounds like a problem of insecurity and immaturity, not a problem with how folks label themselves or their orientations or their relationships.

also, there seems to be this sense of wanting to be the same as others("Is this normal...?"), for some people, so they need some common descriptor.

when this slave was a newbie to all the terminology, she mis-labelled many folks, and still would, if she didn't go deeper than the mere label. it really is necessary for this slave's understanding of a person's position regarding WIITWD for some to explain why they use the label they do, because this slave's understanding of the label as it applies to her can be VASTLY different from what other's mean when they use it.

this slave believes the problems and animosity you are talking about are generated by folks who either here on the boards or just in their minds generalize and make absolute assumptions with regards to the individuals who are employing those labels, as if there is only one-true-way to be slave/submissive/Master/whatever.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 65

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 11:00:06 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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i haven't read the thread - only a post here and there but here is my take on it. Someone can show 100 different people a can of spinich and get dozens of different definitions of what's in the can - but in the end they are really all describing the same thing - spinich. One may say," it's a disgusting limp grean leafy thing my mom used to make me at" or "it's a vegetable full of iron" or "a vegetable i only eat if i can buy it fresh" or "something pop eye eats in a cartoon" etc etc.... you get my point - but spinich is spinich, the same spinich you deteste and describe negatively i may adore nd describe deliciously, and yet others may be indifferent to - but in the end we are all eating the same thing. That's how i view all these cocamamie definitions no one likes - the only ones that matter are the ones i adopt, the ones which make sense to me - if you don't like them - take it up with popeye

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 66

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 11:42:48 AM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear MagiksSlave, Ladies and Gentlemen;

In my mind's eyes I see, the reason that titles have no meaning at all now days, is that such titles do not match up with behavior and or attitude to which are associated with said titles.

The loss of uniformity and conformation of what titles mean in the context of M/s, D/s, S&M and or BDSM; the crayon has been allowed to go over the lines of what the picture is drawn out to be.

It seems as time goes by, the rules of which defined what titles meant, have been disguarded due to those who have watered the meaning of the titles down as to be dismissed and have no meaning.
Everybody is doing their thing. We have in mind in fairly good uniformity of what police officers are and their duties, boundaries and their attitude and or behaviours should be, as to be respected and seen as authority. Because we all are not one big organization we don't have the uniformity. Thus--we'll always be meaningless until we behave as to match fully that title with the use of our personal measure and or standards.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 67

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 11:43:56 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

I believe we do a grave injustice to the newbies who come here desperately seeking to understand if they are sub or slave, Dom of Master when we respond with "well the words mean anything you want them to mean". It's about as useful as saying to a person asking directions, well you could north or south or east or west and you'll get there eventually.

It is not that sub/slave, Dom/Master don't have incredible shades of meaning depending on the individual; they do. And for anyone who has enough knowledge and experience to know what the words mean to them, that is great.

But I believe we owe it to the newcomers to give them a basic underlying definition to those terms, with the understanding that as they grow, their understanding of those words will likely grow and change to suit their particular relationship.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

i agree with you wholeheartedly here, although imo the above should be common sense, simple logic, yet those of us who seek a common language (which does not equate to clonish-ness) for the purposes of clarity and ease of communication are somehow seen as the ones with the issue.

it just makes me thank my lucky stars that my introduction to the lifestyle was not thru collarchat.com or any other such community website preaching "you are whatever you say you are, terms mean whatever you wish them to mean." because if it had been, i would have shaken my head and turned away from all this confusion, and would never have found my Master or my true purpose in life.

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 68

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 2:30:16 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

Hey im not saying people that call others fake are anyting more then immeture I am saying however and i will repeat, if you let everyone define the word differently then the word holds no meaning to the group as a whole only to that indavidual person or couple and doesnt aid in communication in the community.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 69

RE: no meaning at all - 5/23/2007 4:48:16 PM

jaunty1

Posts: 102
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

if you let everyone define the word differently then the word holds no meaning to the group as a whole only to that indavidual person or couple and doesnt aid in communication in the community.

Not everyone cares one bit what 'the community or the group as a whole' thinks about certain definitions. Some are more concerned about their own personal lives.

Live well

Alex

_____________________________

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 70

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 6:09:53 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

it just makes me thank my lucky stars that my introduction to the lifestyle was not thru collarchat.com or any other such community website preaching "you are whatever you say you are, terms mean whatever you wish them to mean." because if it had been, i would have shaken my head and turned away from all this confusion, and would never have found my Master or my true purpose in life.

Amen! It concerns me the damage we do to people coming to these forums for answers, and instead of helping we leave them swinging in the wind. Fortunately, like you, I was trained in an environment where words had meaning, and what you said / how you said it was critical to getting the proper point across. As I said before, there is a time and place to discuss shades of meaning. Outside of those discussions, to be the most effective you have to be sure your meaning is crystal clear.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 71

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 6:15:50 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Again it's not the meaning which is the problem, it's the actions taken FROM that meaning which is the problem.

When one's meaning requires violent, destructive actions, it is the meaning that is the problem. But we are talking at cross purposes, so how about we agree to disagree.

quote:

Same as with Magik- somehow I get along just fine even though I know for a fact that many people do not agree with my labels or how I use them. How on earth is that possible? How come I'm not out there telling people that they suck? Or aren't real?

It is possible because there is a base definition to words. Even though your definitions are not the exact shade as other people, there is enough common understanding of the basic definition that makes communication possible.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 72

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 1:53:37 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaunty1

quote:

if you let everyone define the word differently then the word holds no meaning to the group as a whole only to that indavidual person or couple and doesnt aid in communication in the community.

Not everyone cares one bit what 'the community or the group as a whole' thinks about certain definitions. Some are more concerned about their own personal lives.

Live well

Alex

This is fine and well as long as you never intend to have meainingfull conversations with anyone but your SO

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to jaunty1)

Post #: 73

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 2:03:47 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaunty1

quote:

if you let everyone define the word differently then the word holds no meaning to the group as a whole only to that indavidual person or couple and doesnt aid in communication in the community.

Not everyone cares one bit what 'the community or the group as a whole' thinks about certain definitions. Some are more concerned about their own personal lives.

Live well

Alex

This is fine and well as long as you never intend to have meainingfull conversations with anyone but your SO

Magik's slave

personally, this slave would find it difficult to have a meaningful conversation with anyone who insists everyone agree with them regarding the definition of slave/sub/Master/whatever as it relates to the M/s, D/s relationships and orientations that those unique individuals find themselves in, seek out or believe to be innate expressions of their nature....regardless of what their definition is.

getting down to what it means to be a slave depends on context.....just like many other descriptive words.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/24/2007 2:06:42 PM >

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 74

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 2:31:17 PM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

No my point julia is that you arent going to always be talking to your SO or small group of people you are going to be talking to people who dont even have close to the same definition as you and as far as intelagent goes you arent going to call someone with an IQ of 90 intelagent ,yet no one will really argue that if you have an IQ of 140 that you are most likely intelagent, maybe not the most intelagent by intelagent non the less. There is a scale for that there is no such scale for beeing a sub slave... I had someone tonight tell me how I couldnt possably be a slave becasue of A) B) and C) .... our deffanitions didnt totaly match and she was unwilling to admit that any other way was right but hers and even refered to herself as a true slave saying that I was not a true slave... Made me giggle actualy outloud seeing that, just showed me she really wasnt all that slavely or meture.. at one point I was sighing off to go to sleep(which I didnt wind up doing) and she said "oh I dont need to sleep" so I told her
"your super slave of course you have no need to sleep, but me beeing a mear mortal slave I do have a need to sleep and i will as Master has ordered me"
LOL by then she had really started to get to me with how a perfect slave she was and that if other didnt feel as they felt not only did they not compare with her wonderfull slave status but they could no way be slaves themselvs and I truely dislike people who act like that.. I wasnt ackting that way twords her nor would I ever to anyone els

But I thought this showed the intolerance we have for all the deffinitions out that. LOL maybe we should make a test that puts a persons Domlyness and slavelyness into a number and then you can say Im super slavey I scored a 140 LOL dont mind me the ambian is takeing effect real good now.

Magik's slave

AH HA! this is about creating a scale! ulterior motives revealed! *S*

edited cause I put my words within the quote by mistake

< Message edited by earthycouple -- 5/24/2007 2:50:22 PM >

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 75

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 2:47:37 PM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaunty1

quote:

if you let everyone define the word differently then the word holds no meaning to the group as a whole only to that indavidual person or couple and doesnt aid in communication in the community.

Not everyone cares one bit what 'the community or the group as a whole' thinks about certain definitions. Some are more concerned about their own personal lives.

Live well

Alex

This is fine and well as long as you never intend to have meainingfull conversations with anyone but your SO

Magik's slave

personally, this slave would find it difficult to have a meaningful conversation with anyone who insists everyone agree with them regarding the definition of slave/sub/Master/whatever as it relates to the M/s, D/s relationships and orientations that those unique individuals find themselves in, seek out or believe to be innate expressions of their nature....regardless of what their definition is.

getting down to what it means to be a slave depends on context.....just like many other descriptive words.

I agree with this. As adult intelligent people we should be able to understand that words have different meanings for everyone. There are more than enough examples already posted in both vanilla and BDSM terms. I will not give more.

For me this lies in "adult", "open mind" and "intelligent". If you can not be adult enough and open minded enough to realize that we may disagree as to what word or grouping of words defines us then you are simply not worth my time and energy. If we can't disagree and be ok with that (especially over a single word) then what's the point of trying to communicate further?

Why does it matter if some guy on the other side of the dungeon looks at me and says "that's a top" to his buddy? If what he sees me engaging in appears like "top behavior" to him...who cares?

I'm going to become concerned when I can't find common ground with those near and dear to me....near and dear as in my slave. Even my best gal pal doesn't have to agree with my "requisites" for being a slave. As long as Robert knows them.

*S* and I suppose when it comes right down with it....as long as he comes when I call him and he adheres to my requisites...he can call himself anything darn thing he wants....

Hehe....Robert...instead of my "slave"...from now on you are my rugabugboobear and the list of things I expect are as follows..... *S* so when you are asked....you tell people you are a "rugabugboobear" and it's kinda like a slave, but different. (and for those of you who read my post on nicknames...this is NOT a nickname...it's what Rober is now)

dear heavens....

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 76

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 2:54:47 PM

spankmepink11

Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline

If someone that i was interested in , were to describe themselves as a "Master" , i would communicate with them to determine how they view themselves in this role in addition to a "core" definition.

If someone i was interested in described themselves as "dominant", i would communicate with them to determine how they view themselves in this role, beyond the "core" definition.

If i describe myself to an interested party as a "submissive" i would expect them to communicate with me to determine how i view myself in that role above beyond the "core" definition.

If i describe myself as "slave"....etc...etc...

Communication with a potential partner, above and beyond core definitions being key....

A potato is always a potato, (core definition) however it may be served up in many different ways, fried, baked, mashed, etc. Is the french fry more of a potato than a twice baked potato? Of course not.

I think the people who get the most hung up on labels are people who need to feel validated, who need to feel that they are part of something far more grand than the ordinary potato.

I also think that the lack of a nice neat box to put everyone into is neither harmful nor misleading to those who are just starting to learn about the lifestyle, to me, knowing there are "nuances" to these words and definitions will assure them that they do not have to practice their lifes choices exactly the same as everyone else to be valid.

As for the people who lash out at others saying "fake" wannabe" "you're no ____________(insert orientation) " because of clashing viewpoints on definitions, they would find reasons to be rude, even if there were iron clad definitions. It's not a result of miscommunication, just the result of jerks being jerks. Lets not make excuses for them.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 77

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 4:07:53 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

Well...as someone who has been recently enlightened as to the one true way of Dominance and had to come to face the fact that I am not really dominant, have real M/S relationships, and am completely lost in light of my own flawed definitions, I have no choice but to announce that I am in fact a fake and must now leave this board and resort to a pathetic vanilla relationship since I dont stand up to those on the pedestal of real dominance.

I encourage all others who share my definition that dominance in a relationship = equals authority and nothing more to do the same and announce their fakeness.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to spankmepink11)

Post #: 78

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 4:27:25 PM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Well...as someone who has been recently enlightened as to the one true way of Dominance and had to come to face the fact that I am not really dominant, have real M/S relationships, and am completely lost in light of my own flawed definitions, I have no choice but to announce that I am in fact a fake and must now leave this board and resort to a pathetic vanilla relationship since I dont stand up to those on the pedestal of real dominance.

I encourage all others who share my definition that dominance in a relationship = equals authority and nothing more to do the same and announce their fakeness.

hey....you trumped my sarcasm with more sarcasm....humphf...no fair, foul. *S* leaves with MadRabbit cause I'm prolly fake too

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 79

RE: no meaning at all - 5/24/2007 4:35:14 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

We'll make our boards called www.EarthyRabbits/fakeMasters.org

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 80

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