The Need to Know

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LightHeartedMaam -> The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:29:53 AM)
There are several posts on ”cheating” here. Most sound like they are coming from a raw wound. I’d like to create a thread on WHY people find themselves in extra marital relationships. Take the premise that you are happily married. You come across the D/s world. You present this concept to your spouse. They try it and find it not their thing or they just totally discount it and won’t even consider it. Everything is perfect except this one aspect of your new found interest. The spouse is happy; the kids are well taken care of all is in order. You have no intention of wanting another spouse or leaving but, dammit, you want to check it all out! So you meet someone who in the same situation. Both are married, both honorable in all they meet in their obligations but both have this one nagging interest. The situation would not be any threat to the respective relationships. This thought was provoked by a conversation with a long time acquaintance that I had not spoken to in 10 years. Way back then, he was looking for a Mistress. He’d go to a pro and drop $700 bucks an afternoon with none of the depth he hoped for. He told me that he had been serving a gay master for the past few years and was very content. He is a straight male and enjoyed the “humiliation” of it and, face it, the male Gay community has it allover us with intensity when it comes to sceening and this is what he craved. He wasn’t looking to “fall in love” with a dominant. His situation guarantees this. He considers him just a close friend and not a lover. Does his wife need to know? So what do you do? Run to your spouse and tell them you have to do this and they will just have to accept it thus causing them unnecessary angst or do you explore it all with your new found ally, in the same situation, with discretion? As an individual, do you give up all rights to your privacy in a relationship if it is something that is no threat to them?

NakedGirlScout -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:36:50 AM)
It depends on what kind of relationship you have or want to have. If you're happy with something relatively superficial, considering that your spouse is now excluded from a major epiphany and consequent self-discovery that will change who you are, then that's what you're going to get by being secretive. If you keep trying to talk to the spouse but they just don't care and don't understand, you're in a tough place with what I see as all no-win choices. Something will be compromised, probably integrity. Personally I can't imagine that I'd feel that "everything is happy and in order" if I was both keeping a large part of my personality from my spouse and actively lying to them on major issues. I'd have to consider leaving them.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:41:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam So what do you do? Run to your spouse and tell them you have to do this and they will just have to accept it thus causing them unnecessary angst or do you explore it all with your new found ally, in the same situation, with discretion? I have learned that there is nothing good to come from cheating. It betrays yourself and everything you claim to hold true for yourself. quote: As an individual, do you give up all rights to your privacy in a relationship if it is something that is no threat to them? The fact that they convince themselves that it is "no threat to them" is already the beginning of the lie and justification to be selfish liars. When you make a commitment to be true and honest to another, when you tell them that they can expect you to always be honest with them about who you are- then you have freely given of yourself to that person.

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:42:15 AM)
I am in this situation, and open communication is the key....i would not have sought out a master if i had not discussed and gotten my husbands permission 1st. but thats just me....other feel like its fine to lie and cheat on their spouses...i am not one of those with that mind set.

mistoferin -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:45:24 AM)
I have a hard time relating to your situation because I didn't "come across the D/s world". For me, I could not be fulfilled in any other type of relationship dynamic. It is an integral part of who I am. If I were entirely happy in a relationship I would not jeapordize that relationship to explore an interest or a kink. That would be kind of like saying I came across the world of skydiving and it really interested me....but my partner who I was blissfully happy with in all other areas was adamantly opposed to having me pursue that interest. I would not then jeopardize the relationship to go jump out of planes.

NakedGirlScout -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:46:59 AM)
hi ache... grins... just wondering, on the scope of this topic, what sort of permission did the husband give? Was it grudging or freely willing? Was it "don't ask, don't tell" or do you discuss that aspect of your life? Do the Master and the husband get to know each other and communicate with each other about you? I'd also be interested to know from other people who have their spouse's blessing how it's handled.

RavenMuse -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:47:31 AM)
Consent is a big issue in what we do isn't it... so WHY do those who want to advocate and excuse cheating totaly ignore that the person being cheated on, kept in the dark about the situation, is being placed in a situation they have not consented to? Never mind this crud about what they don't know won't hurt them. All to often people DO find out, the trust (Another BIG issue in WIITWD) is destroyed and the people and relationships damaged, sometimes very badly. Even if they don't find out, the risk of them doing so is always there, risk they don't know they are taking, can't make provision for IF something goes wrong.

LightHeartedMaam -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:48:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout It depends on what kind of relationship you have or want to have. If you're happy with something relatively superficial, considering that your spouse is now excluded from a major epiphany and consequent self-discovery that will change who you are, then that's what you're going to get by being secretive. If you keep trying to talk to the spouse but they just don't care and don't understand, you're in a tough place with what I see as all no-win choices. Something will be compromised, probably integrity. Personally I can't imagine that I'd feel that "everything is happy and in order" if I was both keeping a large part of my personality from my spouse and actively lying to them on major issues. I'd have to consider leaving them. In this scenario, it's not a "large part" in either of the participants personality. They just want to explore it. The only "sex" invovled is cocksucking and humiliation. (and no, this is not me asking for myself. :) But I've know a few who find themselves in this situation. BDSM is so transient that it's not worth getting a divorce just to investigate it. IMO) I think I could accept a husband involved with a gay male as in the above scenario more than I would accept him with another female. Would gender be an element that wouldmake a difference to you (collective 'you' here..not a personal question)

darkinshadows -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:48:14 AM)
quote: As an individual, do you give up all rights to your privacy in a relationship if it is something that is no threat to them? I believe the worst thing you can do is assume that exploring BDSM desires is not a threat to a relationship that is not aware of your exploring. The more you explore, the more you will want. Do not lie to the person because in doing such, you are lying ultmately to yourself and that is the greatest and most dangerous thing of all. Peace

corsetgirl -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:49:54 AM)
I would have to agree with LA, nothing good comes out of cheating. I have learned one thing about this lifestyle and that is to be honest to myself and to others. I could never to do that to anyone I promised to have that commitment and would do what I can to seek that support from that individual.

mistoferin -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:52:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam In this scenario, it's not a "large part" in either of the participants personality. They just want to explore it. The only "sex" invovled is cocksucking and humiliation. (and no, this is not me asking for myself. :) But I've know a few who find themselves in this situation. BDSM is so transient that it'snot worht getting a divorce just to investigate it. IMO) If it is not a large part of either participant's personality...then why on earth would they wish to jeopardize their otherwise solid relationships to indulge in such a minimal interest? I don't see that it only being "cocksucking and humiliation" would make it any less sexual than intercourse...and I don't see that as any less "cheating".

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:52:30 AM)
If it's not a threat then it would not have to be hidden or lied about. The only reason to hide things about ones self in a relationship is because you know that on some level, it will damage the relationship.

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 9:54:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout hi ache... grins... just wondering, on the scope of this topic, what sort of permission did the husband give? Was it grudging or freely willing? Was it "don't ask, don't tell" or do you discuss that aspect of your life? Do the Master and the husband get to know each other and communicate with each other about you? I'd also be interested to know from other people who have their spouse's blessing how it's handled. My husband gave his permission after we discussed what a Master/slave relationship would entail.... He does not want to know the "gory" details his request* although he has seen some of the marks i have had. He also has some kinks that do not "turn me on" although i am more than willing to "play" with my husband the way he wants to. I didnt get the feeling my husband grudgingly gave his permission....his main concerns were my safety and me not falling in love and leaving him....

szobras -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 10:00:05 AM)
Among many other aspects that initially attracted my wife and I to each other, was that we both had involvement in WIITWD. One of the core basis of our relationship is the support of each other as individuals, along with the combined support of our relationship. We cannot support each other, or the relationship without open knowledge, and clear communication. Anything less would certainly prove detrimental , and eventually damaging.

LightHeartedMaam -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 10:02:13 AM)
I'm appreciating all the comments here. I know it's a touchy subject. to some it's a black and white issue and to others it's a gray one. If I had a condition where I could no longer play with my partner and I knew he really enjoyed it, I would allow it. I might want to know that he was "playing" but I would not want any gory details either. If you trust your partner, you trust your partner. The surest way to kill a relationship is to keep a strangle hold on it.

Argentopal -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 10:20:57 AM)
I am going to jump out here and probably get flamed, oh well. I have had the experience of having a very casual play only - no sex - relationship with a married male submissive. I got to know him before we did anything and I believe he is an honest man. I have had men that I tried to get to know who were not honest, and yes I believe that after a bit of talking you can get enough hints to be reasonably certain about their honesty. He told me that his wife knows about his desires and does not share them. She set some rules for him to follow and then it was "don't ask don't tell", she did not want to know any details. She came first always and I was "stood up" on a couple of occasions when a family emergency or problem came up and he had to be with her. Since he and I did not have emotional ties, he was not "my sub/slave", and he did always get back to me as soon as he could and let me know what happened, it was all OK with me, I understood his position. With him I was not his "dominant" except exactly within the parameters of the play session. What did I get out of it? I learned, I grew, I had some fun. It did give me some moral dilemas to think about and there were times I did wonder about how she really felt. But he always spoke so lovingly about her and he was happy in his marriage except for his need/desire to submit and be played on occasion. I guess at times I do wonder if becoming involved with a married person is just "wrong" no matter what or if there is a grey area in there.

RavenMuse -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 10:37:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam I'm appreciating all the comments here. I know it's a touchy subject. to some it's a black and white issue and to others it's a gray one. If I had a condition where I could no longer play with my partner and I knew he really enjoyed it, I would allow it. I might want to know that he was "playing" but I would not want any gory details either. If you trust your partner, you trust your partner. The surest way to kill a relationship is to keep a strangle hold on it. There is NO grey. Your example there is not cheating, that is you making an informed choise, consenting to your partners activity with another... wether you choose to ask for the details or not, it is something of which you are aware and agree to. Ergo, not cheating.

bliss1 -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 10:45:36 AM)
Which is the bigger lie - not to tell your partner or to keep pushing your need (not curiousity) for D/s-bdsm down? Either one will eventually return to bite you in the ass. And lets remember that even though Webster defines cheating as seeing someone not your partner - my question is "how is it cheating if you have informed the other person'? From what I've picked up on this thread - the person is trying to discuss what they know about a situation.

mistoferin -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 10:46:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Argentopal I have had the experience of having a very casual play only - no sex - relationship with a married male submissive. I am not flaming here just wondering what type of "play" you are referring to that was non sexual. I would also like to say that the difference between your situation and the one the OP described is that in your situation all parties seemed to be informed and consented.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Need to Know (5/23/2007 11:14:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam The surest way to kill a relationship is to keep a strangle hold on it. Since when is honoring the commitments and expectations YOU chose for yourself to uphold keeping a stranglehold on anything? And I agree with the others- being informed of what's going on and having it out in the open means it's not cheating.

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