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RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 2:32:13 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		How exactly is he using your being a heterosexual as punishment?  What behavior is that going to change?  Why does he feel that will be the best way for you to improve the behavior?  Isn't this punishing involving another person?  Would they know that this is crossing a hard limit for you?

But, since you think it's reached its end, these are merely for interest value.

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(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 2:34:39 PM   
SireKane


Posts: 105
Joined: 1/22/2004
Status: offline
"Is this something that is normal or prevalent among Masters?  Should i be concerned about this?  All input, Master or sub, will be greatly appreciated. "

soultoshare,

The only thing that matters with respect to your D/s relationship is what you and your master/sir agree upon. If you accept this as a condition of your relationship , and are you comfortable with it , that's fine. Every relationship is different. It sounds like you have a Sir that has his balls firmly attached and intact. He's being upfront an honorable, he's letting you know that when it comes to punishing you, he and he alone is going to decide the type of punishment that is to be admininstered. The ball in your court, it's your decision. I recommend, if possible,  that you take this matter up with an experienced master who know the both of you.

Kane

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 2:36:43 PM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soultoshare

and the one that is in jeopardy.....no woman to woman contact at all......which he had agreed to already. 


I knew it would be this! I swear I did.

Okay you said you didn't know why he wanted to use this limit. THINK about it real hard. He wants Girl on Girl action. It's that simple. He is using it (the punishment) to get something he wants (the girl on girl). It's completely self serving.

Wanker...........total wanker

< Message edited by drawntothedark -- 5/23/2007 2:37:08 PM >

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 2:40:28 PM   
ennaozzie


Posts: 201
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		Hard limit = Dont go there - no exceptions

Does he want a trophy sub/slave to use or abuse?  Or does he want a person he actualy cares for to be his real subbie/slave

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 2:54:13 PM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		the other female involved is his current bi slave, but she already hates me based on getting punished for speaking badly about me already, 3 times!  So, quite frankly, she would have loved anything that would have put me in any position of refusal. And refusal is what i would be doing.....PERIOD!

the punishment involved me servicing her sexually.  The action that it is supposed to stop me from doing again is being impetuous......he had me post and change my profile and i had done so..then day before yesterday, i set one up on another site that i had used, but had not activated it...it's just there for him to check and edit.  Apparently, i should have checked with him prior to even going as far as i did.  

Hell, being a newbie is a real bitch!  But again, i appreciate everyone's input...i knew i'd get honest answers.....when one is dealing with emotions, it's not always the best time to make a decision.....the ball is in his court now....i told him what i'm feeling about the betrayal and anger, so he's probably going to tell me goodbye anyway.  It's better that i do this now than later, huh?  Meh....it's his loss......i'll live!

(in reply to drawntothedark)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 3:03:57 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		I personally would be concerned, because my hard limits are not to be breeched, period. They're a hard limit because it's not ok to do those things to me ever. A dominant that won't respect your limits, even when you're being punished, would send me packing.
quote:

ORIGINAL: soultoshare



Is this something that is normal or prevalent among Masters?  Should i be concerned about this?  All input, Master or sub, will be greatly appreciated.

m


_____________________________

Most of the time if it looks like BS, smells like BS, you probably should not t taste it to see if, in fact, it is BS.


(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 3:04:54 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

He has told me that my hard limits have no bearing on punishment.  By this, he means that regardless of what my hard limits are, he will not honor them when i am to be punished.
Is this something that is normal or prevalent among Masters?  Should i be concerned about this?  All input, Master or sub, will be greatly appreciated.
Yes you should be concerned. As the dominant you must maintain control over your master at all times. Make sure you punish him for his disrespect!

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 3:23:52 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		My opinion is that if it's not consensual, even if a punishment, then it is abuse.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 4:05:30 PM   
Ericus1


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/13/2007
Status: offline 		Hard limits, as i understand them, are an absolute NO!!!
Hard limits don't get crossed without your consent, and then they aren't hard limits anymore.  no excuses, ever.

Punishments fall under those limits as well. 

ericus

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 4:16:10 PM   
goodpet


Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline 		    RUN    RUN     RUN 

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 4:47:20 PM   
mstrj69


Posts: 295
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		Soultoshare, I think you have gotten your answer here  already.  As he originally agreed to your hard limits and to keep them then he is the one who is making the mistake by crossing them.  As fo is it ever done, the only time I could see doing it would be if my sub tried to list everything in the book as a hard limit to get out of doing anything.  But still, I would provide the choice to change the limits to something we both could agree on or sorry, I am not interested in you.  In your case, he saw what few limits you had and agreed to them. 
Once he agrees, he has no right to change his mind.  Either he straightens up and flies right or you should just get out before you are hurt the wrong way.  I must admit, his already having a bi s there should have told you he was more interested in another bi rather than a straight, still he should not have asked you to be his s if he did not want you as you are.  

(in reply to goodpet)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 5:07:08 PM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soultoshare

Hello All.  i have a question that has been rnunning thru my mind, and i'd like some input prior to approaching my Sir about them.  (We are still in the early bonding stages of our relationship, He has said that now is the time for my questions.)  Wait...let's stop here first....you can't ask questions after a deteremined amount of time????  RED flag one!

He has told me that my hard limits have no bearing on punishment.  By this, he means that regardless of what my hard limits are, he will not honor them when i am to be punished.  Since when is a hard limit something that is able to be crossed?  A soft limit is for pushing a hard limit is for NO, not gonna do it. period. end of discussion. (Unless YOU rethink it and want to reopen for discussion)  RED Flag two!

Is this something that is normal or prevalent among Masters?  Should i be concerned about this?  All input, Master or sub, will be greatly appreciated.  There should never be a point at which you can't ask a respectful question or wonder about the goings on....you should not be forced into something you feel goes against your grain.  Good luck to you...I would have tons of questions for this *ahem* dominant.

m


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D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 5:25:23 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourShyPet

I've always thought of Hard Limits in this way...

That either..
A)  It is something a person really really doesn't like doing.... or
B)  It is something that perhaps might be connected to something damaging in their past

For me it's never mattered if it was A or B... but as RavenMuse put it a .... no go ..... place.

kittin


There's also the physical limits. So if a diabetic says she needs to stop hourly and test her blood sugar level when playing hard, breaking this and depriving her of her insulin could cause major problems including death.

And yes there are idiots who will punish people by withholding medicine. I know of a school principal who decided to punish an ADHD child by not allowing the nurse to give him his medicine. Needless to say, there was an immediate threat of legal action if he carried this out.

I remember reading a post on another site a year or so ago by a diabetic sub who despite explaining the fact that she needed to be fed after play was unceremoniously shown to her car to drive home while shaking and going into shock.

Hard limits have to be kept, if you break them the first time you likely won't have a second occasion to do so.

(in reply to YourShyPet)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 6:06:52 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Hard limits are things that are a no go in a relationship, punishment doesnt change that period you say this is a hard limit and that is it sounds like he is beeing manpulative and isnt someone I would trust i would be constantly terrafied Id do something he felt he needed to punish and then would have one of my hard limits used against me. How can you trust or feel safe in a situation like that. I think your lucky you found out now you should cut your losses and runs as fast and as far as you can because this guy sounds like bad news. What happens when he starts punishing you for little tiney things or things you dont feel should be punished for just so he can do something that he wishes that is a hard limit for you. What is the point of haveing hard limits if they arent going to be respected at ALL times... This sounds a lot like threads we have seen about "Doms" useing fears against their subs as punishment This sounds dangerouse(emotionaly and perhaps physically) and this moron doesnt seem like much of a Dom to me.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 6:15:41 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soultoshare

to all,

my hard limits aren't very many....really only the extreme things, no blood, scat, needles, piercings, tat's......i hate needles in any form.....watersports, and the one that is in jeopardy.....no woman to woman contact at all......which he had agreed to already.  i have no idea why he chose this for punishment, escpecially as he knows i am 110% straight, and has known from the start.  Whether or not he was actually going to do it, i don't know, but right now, i'm feeling betrayed and angry that he did.  He's out of state right now, and will be, so the only contact i have with him is sporadic e-mail.  Based on what his response is to the one i sent, this relationship will in all likelihood be over.  But i'll live......i have before.

I agree that punishment should not be about pain, that is actually his stance on it also.  But with what he is suggesting for punishment will only breed resentment on my part. 

i guess that i've pretty much answered my own question here.....just wanted to see if i was maybe harboring an unreal expectation on my part.

Thanks everyone!  As usual, great advice!


WOW now isnt this convenient for him.. He wants a bi sub but you arent bi so he has a stroke of geniouse tell you that hard limits have no bearing on punishment so he can have his cake and eat it to. He uses the front of punishment to get you to do something you both agreed you wouldnt do. This is way to manipulative for my tastes!!! You deaserve so much better. Let him know this broke your trust and you no longer wish to have a relatoinship with him... well thats what  I would do, but thats only my opinion!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 6:17:31 PM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		Punishments are suppose to teach you, to be a lesson. Example, if I neglect domestic chores to which I have been assigned, I would be given a far more elaborate task of great difficulty to emphasize just how -easy- my regular chores are. Thus I would learn, the tasks asked of me are neither difficult nor tedious, in comparison to what the result of NOT doing them is.
Crossing your hard limits will serve as a "do as I say OR ELSE" lesson, which basically inspires fear, and distrust. Because who is to say if you -fail- in a task despite your best effort he won't do the same thing?
Also ask yourself, if he wishes to impliment a strict punishment system, will he also invest in a reward system for when you do well or exceed expectation?

Just some thoughts that come to mind.

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 6:26:45 PM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Well, at least one thing is clear.....I'm not crazy.  Reading everyone's replies just reinforces what my thoughts were.  I'm trying very hard not to think with my emotions, and it's getting very easy now.  i'm going to walk away while i can, i don't hold any hard feelings for him, i'm just not what he wants, and will never be able to be what he wants.

i'm not giving up hope, just giving up this moment in time.  Again, thank you to everyone who responded, it really helped, even if it was just letting me get it off my chest.

m

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 7:18:10 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soultoshare

Hello All.  i have a question that has been rnunning thru my mind, and i'd like some input prior to approaching my Sir about them.  (We are still in the early bonding stages of our relationship, He has said that now is the time for my questions.)

He has told me that my hard limits have no bearing on punishment.  By this, he means that regardless of what my hard limits are, he will not honor them when i am to be punished.

Is this something that is normal or prevalent among Masters?  Should i be concerned about this?  All input, Master or sub, will be greatly appreciated.

m

Hello soultoshare. It's not normal waiving hard limits for punishment, in fact it is very stupid. Yes, you should be concerned as 'you' are the one being mindfucked into agreeing to a 'no limit clause'. If you do, don't be surprised if you are punished more and more frequently. Dump the asshole, he's not safe nor consensual. As for the sane part, you don't need 'permission' to at least apply it to yourself. RL.


(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 7:31:39 PM   
PeggyO


Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hi everyone,

My hard limits are there for very good reasons.  They are not negotiable.  If a Dominant chooses to break them, he is telling me that he no longer wishes to have a relationship with me.  Breaking my hard limits means the relationship is over.  There is no valid excuse or reason for breaking them - period.

At least that's how I view it.

Be well,

Peggy O

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/23/2007 7:49:45 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		<QR>

I'm astonished that anyone would use hard limits as a punishment.  I might be a softey, but I feel that using such valued personal information as a punishment truely diminishes trust.  I'm not against working on hard limits to see if they can be changed, though.  Although I classify myself as a Dom, I've played sub roles.  (For me, submission is a kink) If the person dominant to me used my claustrophobia as a punishment, I'd never confide in them again.  Hard limits are part of the terms of the D/s contract.  It doesn't matter how the Master views the hard limit. 

In my eyes, a hard limit says "I do not give you permission to use me in this way."  To cross that line borders rape and assault.  I'm not one to make waves, but I will here.  Any Dom who uses a sub's hard limits as a punishment is a fool.  A fool not worthy of leadership. 

That being said, the sub has the responsibility to seperate "I really hate that." and "That is a hard limit."

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 40
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