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RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/26/2007 7:38:14 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear soultoshare, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Using any threat, any negative as a control 'device/agent' in BDSM is in my mind's eyes --Wrong.
 
BDSM, from my experiences have been positive re-enforcement for positive results and fully understood that boundaries wouldn't be crossed, especially when they were deal breakers/hard limits.  It has everything to do with respect and honoring someone's deeply entrenched convictions which nothing can shake.
 
In my mind's eyes I see; a person who is looking to excuse the acts which go across the line of your boundaries, fears and such--will invent a means to which will pass those boundaries--not for your benefit but, theirs.  This is where controlling personalities differ from Dominant personalities.  Dominants work on the positive side; Controllers work on the negative side. 
 
It is disturbing to me, that people continue to look as Dominants are able to color outside the lines due to title or made up rules on the 'fly' and or 'go' and really just want to hurt and abuse people.  Frankly, Dominants should be the example in their slave's behavior, inspire the slave to higher levels of self, attitude and behavior. 
 
Dominants should stay within the laid boundaries at all times, even punishment/discipline and or administrations of it.  The Dominant should be able to adapt as to administer punishment/discipline and remain in the boundaries.  Only coaxing, encouraging, teaching you how to manage fears and enhance strength in one self first, so then you as slave can ask the Master to help you go across the boundary together, in a positive manner--not by threats, implied threats and or bait and switch and or a 'power move.'
 
I also wouldn't buy into the words; "You aren't a good slave if you don't and or do [list of thinks people use to shame someone into a behavior against their gut feelings."
 
The question--is thos particular Master the right match for you.  My mind's eyes say no.  Maybe for someone else might be that match as they toy with threats in a whole different mental and emotional realm.
 
Being that positive experiences are preferred, I would avoid anybody who makes a veiled threat to use something that is an absolute hard limit,  as any action--to include punishment.  In different context; If you have a limit that is hard and steadfast that you hate group sex--
I'll bet my bottom dollar that the Master will invent an excuse to have you forced into gang rape sex as a sex slave. 
 
What I want as a seasoned Dominant for you to avoid; is that moment of when trust is shattered, you look at BDSM as the problem and not the individual who skews what Modern BDSM means to a lot of us--which is a positive experience and a vehicle to growth.
 
Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/26/2007 10:18:18 AM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Lady Hugs,

Much of what you said had already crossed my mind, the most important being if he uses a limit to punish me now, what will stop him from doing it again?  He agreed and promised that I would never have to have any sexual contact at all with a woman, then yanked the rug out from under me with his new tactic.  He eventually pissed me off, so MY Dominant side came out....trust me, Mine is stronger than His anyday!  My sense of self preservation is a highly developed tool.

As far as a reflection on the BDSM lifestyle, I am not allowing this incident to color my outlook on it.  I am still moving forward in seeking out a Dom, after all, I AM a hopeless romantic!  If anything, what he did show me has just made me want more.  Lord, save me from myself!  Meh, what the heck...in for a penny, in for a pound, Right?

Again, i thank everyone for their support and kind words.  Ya'll have been a huge help in getting me past thinking emotionally, to thinking rationally.  That was very important to me.

michelle

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/26/2007 11:53:40 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Yes you should be concerned.  Obviously, there was negotiation prior to beginning the relationship.  A hard limit translates to "no way, no how, no time".  Being a sub does not mean that he get to violate your ethics, morals or anything else because he believes it is appropriate punishment.

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/28/2007 9:57:03 AM   
MasterDan1


Posts: 4
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		One thing my wife and I always do is respect any slaves limits, our last girl actually asked us to try and take her beyond her limits but we were still cautious in that there were limits set out.

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/28/2007 10:17:17 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		I agree totally LadyHugs.
You just always explain my views, so much better than I do.
: )

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/28/2007 11:26:13 AM   
lovewithoutfear


Posts: 153
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline 		"what kind of slave hates her sister sub/slave?  She should be thinking about her master and how to make you feel welcome, not sabatoging you and speaking bad about you to him.  Very dysfunctional poly situation."

Hmmm, I would tend to agree, but as bellaballanda pointed out, he probably didn't check with the slave about how she'd feel about his adding a sub, this sub, or a straight sub, or help her prepare.  He seems like the kind of guy who would just one day announce that someone new was joining the mix and expect her to just automatically cope with it.  For all we know, that slave may have had hard limits violated/power abused by him before also.  I don't like hearing that she's being punished for speaking her mind either (for speaking disrespectfully, yes -- I don't know the context though).  I agree it is a dysfunctional poly situation, but I think the dysfunction goes farther back and is more deeply rooted than the slave's hatred of the newer girl.  As I see it (at least in a relationship structured the way mine is structured) a master CAN force his girl to do anything -- accept another whom she dislikes, force a straight woman to have sex with another woman, but why would he?  To me that would be an abuse of power.  I thought the point of these relationships was for masters and slaves/subs to support and build one another up, not to tear down by finding out what someone's hottest buttons are, then pressing them "just because he can."    That is just cruel and sadistic in the pathological, not the kinky sense.

My 2 cents --
JoyfulYes
lovewithoutfear

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/28/2007 4:33:19 PM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Lovewithoutfear.....

"plink, plink".....adding your .02 to my piggy bank!  The folding stuff is appreciated also! 

In all honesty, i'm not sure how he presented my coming into the household to her.  He did make a couple of serious concessions for me to come into the house....he expected me to give up my job, but i can't at this time, i don't want to be a financial burden, and i can't imagine being without health insureance benefits....i need them.  Also, i have 3 cats that were coming with me.  He agreed that i could keep both, but told me that as part of her punishment for speaking badly was that she would take care of my cats......um......over my dead body!!!!!!  And that's pretty much what i told him.  With a little more respect, but he got the point.

But he's always maintained a poly household, in fact, up until probably a month ago, maybe a tad longer, there was another sub there too, but she left.  Now i wish i had pushed to find out why.......maybe the problem child drove her away?  I told him several times that i was afraid of her based on what he was telling me about her.  Just between you, me and the lamppost, i'm sure there would have been a serious knock-down, drag out fight when he wouldn't be there.....and i don't fight like a woman, i'm an ex-cop, so you know who would have come out on top of that one.  The other sub that he's moving in is returning to him, she actually was looking forward to my coming in, and she knew about what was going on, and she pushed him to keep me anyway.  Meh.....such drama.....and i HATE drama!  i just wanted to kind of sneak in the back door, and quietly become part of the household, but that's not going to happen.

I still haven't shed a single tear, and the wine is still intact, so i'm pretty sure i'm going to be okay.  The support and e-mails i have gotten from others here on the site has totally blown my mind......i can't thank everyone enough...really!  Ya'll gave me that kick in the ass that made me start thinking with my head, not my heart!  i am so grateful for that!

take care,

m

_____________________________

This is where I should say something witty.....well, "SOMETHING WITTY!"

**********************************************

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.



(in reply to lovewithoutfear)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/28/2007 4:36:06 PM   
grlneedstolearn


Posts: 728
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		My Dom would never push my hard limits and the fact that he respects them is enough for me to trust him. As for my punishments go, it's up to him to do whatever, yet he will continue respecting my hard limits no matter what.

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/28/2007 7:21:37 PM   
bellaballanda


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/1/2006
Status: offline 		"He did make a couple of serious concessions for me to come into the house....he expected me to give up my job, but i can't at this time, i don't want to be a financial burden, and i can't imagine being without health insureance benefits....i need them." 

Danger Will Robinson Danger!  If a Dom makes enough to support a household by himself, he should be able to put some money away for each sub in an account that she/he controls so that if things do not work out, she does not walk away with no money to re-start her life.  Also, a Dom should offer you health insurance if he wants you to give up your job.  I've heard of poly families that run this way, the Dom makes all the money, but the subs (all of them) have health insurance.  With the cost of medical care these days, NO ONE should be without health insurance if they can help it.  It's just too risky.


_____________________________

~Shelly

The lifestyle comes to each differently... always remember that....

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/29/2007 10:15:19 AM   
Sirdarrell


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/18/2007
Status: offline 		you need limits highs and lows if you go below the lows the the master/top isnt having fun if you go beyond the highs then the sub isnt. like everything else comunication is the key. every one has differences and it impotant to make these known to your partner, goal it excitement of both not just one

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/29/2007 6:09:47 PM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Sirdarrell,
the limit he told me he was going to use had previously been agreed on by him, in fact, he gave me his word that he would NEVER make me do the act at all.  From the beginning, the very FIRST meeting, I made ALL of my hard limits known to him, and he agreed upon them.  I make it point to adress my hard limits before anything takes place, period.  The thing is, he's not going to see it as him betraying my trust, rather me not being a "true slave"....NO!!!!!  No discussion about true, twue or whatever, please!  That's not the point.....the point is, if I can't trust him, then there's no sense continuing.  I value my own self-respect far more than finding a Dom at this point.  The ONLY person I need to be true to is myself!  I just chalked this up to life, and learning.

m

_____________________________

This is where I should say something witty.....well, "SOMETHING WITTY!"

**********************************************

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.



(in reply to Sirdarrell)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/29/2007 6:14:31 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I love how the fakes are always accusing the real ones of being fake!  Go figure!

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/29/2007 6:44:05 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		WRONG ANSWER.... A hard limit is just that a HARD limit.
I suggest that you both have a sit down and discuss this - If they  remain solid on that fact , I suggest you walk the other way FAST.
Anyone who does not respect a "Hard limit" immediately should loose any respect and trust that is even remotely there.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/29/2007 6:50:42 PM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		kinkypupper.....
i already walked!  The trust was severly damaged, as was the respect......it would take a miracle for me to even consider going back....and I'm not a big believer in miracles.

Lockit,
I know that i have the capability to be a very good slave, and that it's his loss totally......it's just a matter of finding the Dom that compliments me.  I don't care about being true....i care about the truth!

_____________________________

This is where I should say something witty.....well, "SOMETHING WITTY!"

**********************************************

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.



(in reply to Kinkypupper)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/29/2007 7:48:46 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

He has told me that my hard limits have no bearing on punishment.  By this, he means that regardless of what my hard limits are, he will not honor them when i am to be punished.
Is this something that is normal or prevalent among Masters?  Should i be concerned about this?  All input, Master or sub, will be greatly appreciated.
Yes you should be concerned. As the dominant you must maintain control over your master at all times. Make sure you punish him for his disrespect!


Merc, I see sarcasm here. Would you mind explaining, cause I really don't understand what you're saying. Soul's position is that her Dom is telling her that any previously agreed upon hard limits, like not having sex with females, which would under normal circumstances be accepted are null and void when it comes to his decisions to punish her. Now, does that not seem hypocritical? Why agree to a relationship with such limits only to have an escape clause that makes it ok to break them? And if he's the master then he doesn't even have to have a legitimate cause for "punishment" but could basically decide that her limits are not worth respecting anytime he wants and just call it "punishment." What a cop out. Sounds like maybe he should find himself a slave whose desires match his own more closely. But I must be missing something in your reply...truly. I don't understand.
I have to agree that I saw the same sarcasm, and greatly wondered upon it.Especially considering another thread whereas the same sarcasm was evident. I am getting the impression Merc, that you are less than pleased about sub./slaves. Anf if there is some issue that you think needs to be brought out, then maybe you should start a thread on what those particular issues are rather than using thinly veiled sarcasm in certain postings of yours.....Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/30/2007 8:36:02 PM   
kiyari


Posts: 631
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Yes you should be concerned. As the dominant you must maintain control over your master at all times. Make sure you punish him for his disrespect!


Merc, I see sarcasm here. Would you mind explaining, cause I really don't understand what you're saying. <snip>. But I must be missing something in your reply...truly. I don't understand.
I have to agree that I saw the same sarcasm, and greatly wondered upon it.Especially considering another thread whereas the same sarcasm was evident. I am getting the impression Merc, that you are less than pleased about sub./slaves. Anf if there is some issue that you think needs to be brought out, then maybe you should start a thread on what those particular issues are rather than using thinly veiled sarcasm in certain postings of yours.....Tempting


My take, is that Mercnbeth are displaying disdain / being indirectly boastful,
as does not the slave in that pair boast of being one of those 'no limits' ones?

Not a constructive or genuinely engaged contribution to the thread... safely disregarded.

_____________________________

Black Water Dragon

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/31/2007 4:36:44 AM   
leatherbelt26


Posts: 3
Joined: 4/20/2007
Status: offline 		"punnishment" is there to completely me, to keep me under control. If you love and trust your Sir, you will allow him to teach and care for you in any way that he feel nessary. And by hard limits, or any limit for that matter, you should have your safe word as your backbone. true to a submissive....i live for my boundries to be crossed, who can i trust to cross them?, and .....will it hurt? 
good luck sts*

trin

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/31/2007 10:14:16 AM   
soultoshare


Posts: 519
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		trin....
I probably should have also mentioned that my safe words also hold no weight when it comes to punishment.  Essentially, nothing stops until he decides that his point was made.  And maybe I don't understand this, but punishment is NOT there to keep me under control, only to reinforce it...if he has to use it for that reason, then he really DOESN'T have control.

Also, pushing my boundaries is one thing, I want that also.....but this was a hard limit that was agreed upon from the start, I trusted him to NOT use it in any way, shape or form, only to have him turn around and use it as a mind fuck.......it devastated me to think he would even think about betraying the trust i had placed in him. 

As of htis writing, he has yet to respond to the formal request for release, but it doesn't matter to me,  as it was sent only to explain the reason behind my walking away from the whole thing.  I basically gave him an ultimatum....unconditional acceptance of ALL of my hard limits, or i have to leave.  Knowing him as well as I do even at this point, his silence is his answer....i have never spoken to any Dom who would accept an ultimatum from ANY sub/slave. 

Just as a note, I have nothing but respect for any slave who can truly admit to having no limits.  To have that level of trust in someone else to determine what you can and will be subjected to just boggles my mind. 

m

_____________________________

This is where I should say something witty.....well, "SOMETHING WITTY!"

**********************************************

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...

It's about learning to dance in the rain.



(in reply to leatherbelt26)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/31/2007 10:57:45 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		WE have no limits here except those we impose on ourselfs even if we did during punishment I would be closed ear...bounty

< Message edited by BOUNTYHUNTER -- 5/31/2007 10:58:20 AM >

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: hard limits as punishment - 5/31/2007 11:08:33 AM   
Arastella


Posts: 262
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with the large percentage of people in here who say DO NOT cross limits.  A submissive has limits for a darn good reason, it means that it is something she is EXTREMELY uncomfortable with, would be permanently damaging to her (physically or mentally), or brings upon bad memories from the past.  Leave limits alone.  Once again, IMHO

(in reply to soultoshare)
Profile   Post #: 80
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