RE: Revoking your subs collar

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RavenMuse -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 5:03:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Calandra *so why would anyone think that removing a collar for a time* negates the relationship???** Symbols have power, so do certain acts in relation to that symbol. Well done, you spotted the symbol isn't the relationship, you seem to forget that we are talking an equaly symbolic act here. I haven't placed My formal collar on My current girl yet, we are getting there but there are several things needing work forst... so I will instead refer to My last girl. When I placed My collar round her neck it was more than just attatching a band of leather, it was reaching a milestone within the relationship and showing that I believed in that relationship and was prepaired to work at maintaining it. During the time I owned her she could take the band of leather from round her neck in order to bathe... that certainly didn't mean she was 'uncollared' any time she had a bath, simply that the symbol wasn't currently being worn. When her actions eventualy did cause Me to accept that there was no future in the relationship, that whatever work I put in from there was futile and we had to part ways. I REMOVED her collar.... just as symbolic an act as when I placed it on her the first time. People in this thread, mostly, are not just discussing a symbolic object, but the equaly symbolic ACT of 'removal'.

toadMystC -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 5:20:53 AM)
to me, my collar means that i am in service to Mystress Kathryn, and Her removing it would really tear me up emotionally. my first instinct would be to think the relationship is over, however, after hearing Her explination of why i wear the collar and what is expected, i would hope i never act in such a way as to even have that being considered, so it is a symbol that keeps me very in check as to how i live each day, and how i interact with each person daily. This has had a very positive outcome on most of my inter-personal relationships, because before i came to my Mystress, i was a very aggressive individual, and would lash out before thinking, instead of now when i tend to sit back and think the best course of action first. my voluntary service to Her means the world to me, and when i lose sight of that focus, letting emotions run wild, She gently nudges me back into line, with love and compassion, instead of threats. i hope this insight helps. the only times i remove my collar, is when i get to work, and when i bathe. The rest of the time, it would take a direct order from Mystress, or someone could take it off my cold, dead body themselves, if they lived through the fight in the first place. edited to include removal times toad[MystC] House of Phoenix Athens, Ga

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 6:57:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Calandra I as the Dominant do not need to wear any symbol at all, yet that does not mean that I am not just as committed in the relationship, so why would anyone think that removing a collar for a time negates the relationship??? Because that is what they agreed that particular action signifies. You have your agreement, they have theirs.

kittinSol -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 6:58:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Calandra Is the collar important? Oh yes! Does removing it nullify the relationship? Hell no! Calandra, my sentiment exactly. And I speak from knowledge [:(] He said that since I took it off myself, I had to earn it back, and I think he is right. But that is just between him and me, and I don't think there is a right or a wrong with that kind of problem. Just people trying to find the just balance. Meow.

AquaticSub -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 7:23:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeargentDave My sub disobeyed me and I wanted to send a clear message that this behavior would not be tolerated. I did punish her accordingly and told her that if there was a repeat that I would take away her collar. It did get her attention but I was wondering if taking away one's collar was symbolic of breaking the relationship altogether. From a Dom's point of view, is this an acceptable punshment or should it only be done when the relationship is terminated. From a sub's point of view, taking my collar would mean you are ending the relationship, or at least a severe lessening of it. Unless it was a severe case, I would feel the punishment was grossly unfit for the crime and may reconsider my own submission.

Lashra -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 9:47:14 AM)
If I removed my subs collar he would be absolutely CRUSHED. Because that collar is an outward symbol of our type of relationship. The only way it comes off is if 1. One of us dies or 2. I take back 3. He gives it back , so that means end of relationship. I would never take it away as punishment, there are so many other ways to punish without something as potentially mentally damaging as this. ~Lashra

OsideGirl -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 9:59:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeargentDave I was wondering if taking away one's collar was symbolic of breaking the relationship altogether To me, yes. You ask for my collar, I'll hand it to you and walk out the door. Matter of fact, if you threatened my collar in that manner, I'm pretty sure my reaction would be exactly the same. quote: From a Dom's point of view, is this an acceptable punshment or should it only be done when the relationship is terminated. I suppose, but here's the reality of what you're doing: 1) Think if someone said "I'm leaving you" everytime they had an argument. It's crying wolf and eventually the partner will go, "Okay, leave". 2) Punishment by threatening abandonment comes very, very close to being psychological abuse. Not something I would consider healthy in a relationship. 3) Threatening abandonment is a good way to raise a resentment. Resentment isn't good for a relationship because it just festers unilt it ultimately explodes. You're very likely doing permanent damage to your relationship. 4) Don't threaten something unless you're willing to live with the outcome.

OsideGirl -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 10:17:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave quote: ORIGINAL: SireKane Corporal punishment is the ultimate behavior modification. If you don't know how to use corporal punishment, find a master who will mentor you. Spare the rod spoil the slave. Kane This is a funny thing to say to a board full of masacistic slaves!!! oh and we all love when we are compared to children!!!! Magik's slave Yeah, you say that. But, I know Sir Kane and have seen him spank. I'm a masochist and scares the crap outta me. [:)]

bliss1 -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 10:28:03 AM)
Speaking from past experience here is my take. At one time when a Dom collared a sub it was common for him to wear her key online - Nick{s} Now I was living with this Dom and he knew that for me my collar and his key represented a committed relationship - since we were real life and chatted it is how we showed that relationship online. One day her removed his key to fit in with a certain group - I was crushed. He did it to fit in, showing me that what others thought about him was more important than what I was (or how I felt). If you slave sees things as I did - it could be the beginning of the end.

KatyLied -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 10:31:31 AM)
How do you wear a key online? Is it a chat thing?

HellsMichelle -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 10:37:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali Addition: Thinking about this topic more...like what would be wrong wtih hanging the collar on the wall somewhere, seeing it in a high place, symbolic of somehwere she needs to reach again...the collar isnt a wedding ring...it has more meaning to me than that, a collars meaning is defined and earned..even if someone had to go through a lot of rigmoral (sp?) to get it..does that mean they can just rest on their laurels after getting it? I have seen a technique like this used in such instances. The collar was not officially 'taken away' [and the relationship ended] but instead the sub was told she was not allowed to wear it until she made amends for her mistake and showed an effort to change. It was very effective!!! The same dominant also used to punish his girls [he had a harem at that time] for disobedience by NOT allowing them to attend ANY public functions while the rest of his House was taken. This too served its purpose well. No one likes to feel left out -- or stuck at home alone cleaning a house where the duties are generally shared among the group. For me, my preferred punishment is to bring my pet along to an event and make him stand in the corner. It's embarassing and still keeps them with me. If I am feeling particularly nasty, I will play someone right in front of them while denying them the same privie. It's punishment without physicality. I don't really believe in physical punishments. I want my subs to associate pain with pleasure and not get confused. If they did something that DID inspire me to use pain, I generally make them go pick out the five toys they hate the most of my toy bag along with five they really love. I ask that they lay them out with their favorites first. Then I used those last. That way by the end they know that I still want them to associate the pleasure but to respect the ugly side of me too. but that's just me -- to each their own, lv M

Calandra -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 11:03:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse quote: ORIGINAL: Calandra *so why would anyone think that removing a collar for a time* negates the relationship???** Well done, you spotted the symbol isn't the relationship, you seem to forget that we are talking an equaly symbolic act here. I've forgotten no such thing. I simply do not allow the symbol to represent our RELATIONSHIP. The symbol represents their SERVICE to Me only. You see, I don't just see them as My slaves. They are My friends, lovers, partners and more. All of those other aspects do rely upon the service to eventually be satisfying to both of us, but the collar is linked to their quality of service. quote: I haven't placed My formal collar on My current girl yet, we are getting there but there are several things needing work forst... Hence the reason that I only grant a TRAINING collar until they have been with Me a long time. The training collar is a tool in My training, as is My voice, My assignments, and anything else I have at My disposal. I do NOT take the collar off lightly. As I said it is the last resort before dissolving the relationship completely in most cases. I don't believe in emotional blackmail and empty threats. At the point where I feel I have to remove a collar in order to get their attention, I am fully aware that the relationship might dissolve right then and there. I also realize that if it does dissolve, then it's for the best, because the reason I took the collar off would have been a very serious one we HAD to work through. Basically, I only take a collar off if it's an issue that ALREADY threatens the relationship - hence last resort. I have removed the collar as discipline only twice in My life. (In one case My slave decided to quit smoking, did quit for a time, then resumed behind My back, rather than admitting it to My face. He felt like a failure and wanted to tell Me, but chickened out - especially when I bragged on him to friends about it. His smoking was reported to Me, and I was hurt - not that he was smoking, but that he was actively LYING to Me. I cannot maintain trust in a person who lies to Me and over several days I decided that he would forfeit the right to wear his collar until that trust was regained. I also discussed ways that he could do just that. That was 6 years ago. I married him 4 years ago so apparently the relationship wuddn't over, huh?) Both slaves worked hard to regain it in short order, and in both cases the situation turned out to be a crossroads for the relationship. I did make sure it remained where they could see it, and I gave them clear steps to restore it to their necks. Both have thanked Me afterwards. quote: During the time I owned her she could take the band of leather from round her neck in order to bathe... that certainly didn't mean she was 'uncollared' any time she had a bath, simply that the symbol wasn't currently being worn. Exactly - the collar wasn't being WORN. Just because I do not allow My slave to WEAR the collar does not mean it is not still in effect between us. We're talking geography here, not the meaning of the symbol. Both of My boys work everyday. They are to remove their collars in the parking lot before they enter the building. Now cubby carries his in his pocket all day so that he can touch it when he wishes to feel connected with Me. toad may leave it in the van, or he may carry it, I'm not sure. I have been told that they both rush to put it back in place when they leave the building at 7:00 each night because they miss wearing it. When I remove the collar for disciplinary purposes, I have revoked the PRIVILEDGE of wearing it, nothing more. If a slave never wants to experience that form of discipline, simple, don't do anything extreme enough to merit it. quote: When her actions eventualy did cause Me to accept that there was no future in the relationship, that whatever work I put in from there was futile and we had to part ways. I REMOVED her collar.... just as symbolic an act as when I placed it on her the first time. People in this thread, mostly, are not just discussing a symbolic object, but the equaly symbolic ACT of 'removal'. I also remove a collar when a relationship is over. but the symbolism of the RELATIONSHIP ending doesn't stop there. In My tradition a collar that has been removed as a symbol of a broken relationship is then handled in specific ways: 1.) The Dominant destroys it if the slave lost the collar due to dishonor. 2.) The Dominant keeps and cherishes it if S/He hopes to one day restore it to the slave's neck. 3.) The Dominant gifts it to the slave as a token of rememberance (S/He also gives a letter of reference). Should the slave request release, the Dominant hands him/her the collar and the slave may then destroy it in front of witnesses if they maintain that dishonor was involved. If there was no dishonor, the slave may retain the collar as a token of rememberance. Yes, the removal of a collar can mean the end of a relationship... but only the context of the relationship (and the two people involved) can determine that. People have said that the traditions I was taught are barbaric. I disagree. There are very clear cut guidelines that help both Dominant and slave gauge the health of the relationship at any given point. There is a close-knit circle of others who witness and sometimes mediate the relationship. There is a lot to learn, but often those not willing to learn reveal themselves to be half hearted or simply more casual in their approach to this lifestyle than I am. I would not be well suited with a slave who saw removal of the collar as an all-or-nothing symbol of something as complex as our D/s relationship... Sorry.

domiguy -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 11:32:13 AM)
Well since "SeargentDave" hasn't found the time to make his eighth post as a reply I can only assume he got himself blowed up in Iraq...But he isn't a "Sargent" he is a "Seargent"....which might means he likes cooking his subs quickly over a very hot heat source....Anywhoooo...I personally don't really dig the whole collaring thang...Just not my bag, baby!!! But I would think the last thing that someone would have to worry about is the loss of their collar....Unless you rip it from their neck, in front of their loved ones or family.... similiar to some old bad army movies where someone was demoted by ripping off their stripes in front of their fellow troops. I would think she would probably get the idea that she was in some hot water when I would say something like, "You ungrateful fucking, cunt!!!" Since "SeargentDave" has taken on a vow of silence...I don't think we will ever get to know the reasoning for taking such action? Maybe she pooped on the floor? Maybe he wanted her to go out and steal a can of Red Bull and she said , "no." Either way no one really cares. I see someone said that losing a collar was worse then getting a divorce....What hubris some people place on themselves and their worth....that is what makes coming out here so much fun.

KatyLied -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 11:43:26 AM)
quote: I see someone said that losing a collar was worse then getting a divorce.... I'm guessing they've never been subjected to a divorce that took years to finish.

kyraofMists -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 5:09:26 PM)
Revoke is a very strong word. It means to annul, make invalid, void or ineffective. When you revoke the collar what are you annuling if the collar is a symbol of the D/s or M/s structure? The use of that word leads me to think that you are annuling the transfer of authority. Are you speaking of revoking the collar or of not letting the submissive wear the collar for a period of time? There was a post many months ago about removing a collar as punishment and my response then was that I would see it as an end to the relationship. However a post by MrThorns in that thread made me reconsider my perception and through discussions with my Lord I can appreciate how not allowing a submissive to wear a collar for a period of time can be an effective consequence to willful disobedience. If done constructively it could change the behavior that is unwanted. If done destructively it may just end the relationship for good. In our relationship the collar is not mine; it is his and I am granted the privilege of wearing it. It is a privilege that I earn through my obedience to him. If through my behavior I stop earning that privilege then he may not allow me to wear it. If he were to do that I would be devastated but it would be the consequence of my actions/choices. There would also be a clear path for me to follow to earn that privilege back. While I no longer see it as an automatic end to a relationship, it is a severe consequence to behavior that I do not think should be used lightly. Knight's kyra

MagiksSlave -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 5:20:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave quote: ORIGINAL: SireKane Corporal punishment is the ultimate behavior modification. If you don't know how to use corporal punishment, find a master who will mentor you. Spare the rod spoil the slave. Kane This is a funny thing to say to a board full of masacistic slaves!!! oh and we all love when we are compared to children!!!! Magik's slave Yeah, you say that. But, I know Sir Kane and have seen him spank. I'm a masochist and scares the crap outta me. [:)] LOL point duely noted, thanks for the heads up!! Magik's slave

Sinergy -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 5:56:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears i wouldn't have much trust in a dom who would threaten removal of my collar as punishment. Works both ways. I told my first collared submissive that she would threaten to give her collar back as emotional blackmail one too many times. Which ended up being what happened. Sinergy

Celeste43 -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/24/2007 6:04:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SireKane Corporal punishment is the ultimate behavior modification. Kane It's the ultimate behavior modification for doms who can't teach. And overused the behavior that is modified is the sub staying with the dom. You might be surprised how many people, of all ages, respond better when they get asked what the problem is, are asked to help brainstorm a solution and are given positive reinforcement.

velvetears -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/25/2007 7:19:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears i wouldn't have much trust in a dom who would threaten removal of my collar as punishment. Works both ways. I told my first collared submissive that she would threaten to give her collar back as emotional blackmail one too many times. Which ended up being what happened. Sinergy Emotional blackmail is the worst, it's an immature way of dealing with a problem and it forces the other person to make a choice in a way they would rather not. i bet in an instance like that telling the sub to remove the collar, and that she was released, would be a real eye opener for her.

velvetears -> RE: Revoking your subs collar (5/25/2007 7:21:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HellsMichelle I have seen a technique like this used in such instances. The collar was not officially 'taken away' [and the relationship ended] but instead the sub was told she was not allowed to wear it until she made amends for her mistake and showed an effort to change. It was very effective!!! i think that's an excellent idea - for a sub who values her collar not being able to wear it would be a true punishment and not make her feel threatened that she's altogether loosing it.

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