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Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 7:56:19 AM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Majority Favor Changing Immigration Laws, Poll Says

By JULIA PRESTON and MARJORIE CONNELLY
Published: May 24, 2007

As opponents from the right and left challenge an immigration bill before Congress, there is broad support among Americans — Democrats, Republicans and independents alike — for the major provisions in the legislation, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll.


Point by point, large majorities expressed support for measures contained in the legislation that has been under debate since Monday in the Senate. The nationwide telephone poll did not ask respondents about the immigration bill itself, but there were questions about its most significant provisions. It was conducted May 18 to 23 with 1,125 adults, and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

The bill, which is backed by President Bush and a bipartisan group of senators, would allow illegal immigrants who were in the United States before Jan. 1 of this year to obtain legal status by paying fines and passing background checks.

Two-thirds of those polled said illegal immigrants who have a good employment history and no criminal record should gain legal status as the bill proposes: by paying at least $5,000 in fines and fees and receiving a renewable four-year visa.

Many Republican lawmakers have rejected this plan, calling it amnesty that rewards immigrants who broke the law when they entered the United States. But the poll showed that differences are not great between Republicans and Democrats on this issue, with 66 percent of Republicans in the poll favoring the legalization proposal, as well as 72 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of independents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/us/politics/25cnd-poll.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5087%0A&em&en=fc0dec992590892c&ex=1180238400
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:04:50 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Why not post the rest of the poll?:

In the poll, 57 percent said that recent immigrants had made a contribution to the United States. But 35 percent said that in the long run the new immigrants would make American society worse, while only 28 percent said they would make it better.

By large margins, people in the poll are aware that the majority of the immigrants who have arrived in recent years are illegal, and 61 percent said that illegal immigration was a very serious problem. A large majority, 70 percent of respondents, said they believed that illegal immigrants weaken the American economy because they use public services but do not pay corresponding taxes.
 
The bill also calls for reinforcing the borders, cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants and eliminating the backlog of visa applications from aspiring legal immigrants. In the poll, 75 percent of those who responded favored tougher penalties for employers of undocumented workers, and 82 percent said the federal government should do more to reinforce the border. But only 15 percent of respondents favored fences as the main method to reduce illegal border crossings.

And as a wise-man once said... "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 5/25/2007 8:06:09 AM >

(in reply to selfbnd411)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:18:33 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		ummm.  bullshit.

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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:20:25 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Once again, I'm convinced that the solution to Companies hiring off-the-books workers, is simply to allow any worker, regardless of immigration or payroll status to file for Workman's Compensation, should they become injured while working.

BLAMMO! The financial incentive for these companies which hate America is instantly negated.

Think of it as "Supply Side" immigration enforcement.

No Jobs == No Unlawful Workers.

And if you can give me a better way to really, really hurt those companies than jacking their Workman's Comp rates.. .( Hey, don't do anything until they're busted, THEN re-rate them retroactively,, or just cancel them outright, and let them apply through another carrier and see how they're underwritten then! )

Didja ever think that Insurance could be used for anything good?


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:24:50 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		So once again, they want to REWARD people who are here ILLEGALY?! I don't think so, send them back and THEN let them go through the proper steps, lets do this the right way, LEGAL way. I am ALL for immigration reform, but that is a load of bs, if you let those who BROKE THE LAW stay and you say that they have "no criminal record" thats bs. They ARE criminals, they broke the law. Now you have a record of it, if they are an 'illegal' immigrant and you know that, they their is a record, if only mentally.

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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:29:15 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Why not? You let George Bush, Rice, Cheney, et. al. get away with Felony violations of 18 USC 371.

If you're not going to hold them accountable to the law, why pretend you have the moral authority to hold anyone?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:30:15 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		That's what it is about really. It's about money.

I was listening to Bernie Sanders (I-VT) yesturday in the Senate, a man I almost never agree with, but he made a lot of sense yesturday in the Senate. He was talking about how corporations like Microsoft and IBM increase their profits by firing American workers and hiring immigrants from India and China. And he quoted a Vice President from Microsoft that basically said American workers make too much money and that's why they go to India to find labor.

The cheap labor of the 3rd world that is exploited by American corporations has put a squeeze on American jobs and salaries. The corporations want more visas to be granted and they want an open border because they know in the long run it will lower their labor costs and increase their profits. Meanwhile the middle class of America will continue to shrink.

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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:31:57 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		How about a 40% Tariff on Goods and Services which MSFT chooses to outsource?

That'll take quite a bit out of their margin.

All of a sudden, it's cheaper to setup a call center in Bumfuck, Appalachia.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/25/2007 8:33:00 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:33:25 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		fargle, workers comp was abolished years ago!!!!!

PA revised such laaws 3x in 10 yr period. i thinkk we are a right to work state.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:34:36 AM   
Jack45


Posts: 220
Joined: 12/20/2006
Status: offline 		Peter Brimelow, author of the seminal ALIEN NATION which was published in 1995, has  some comments here, that are very worthwhile reading, please note that such commentary changes daily and is not archived.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:35:01 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		New York is a Right to Work state, and our Workman's Comp carriers are doing just fine.

The roofers, however, will complain how it's all fucked up.

Well, when they end up paying through the nose for hiring off-the-books, they'll get some perspective.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:35:23 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

That's what it is about really. It's about money.

I was listening to Bernie Sanders (I-VT) yesturday in the Senate, a man I almost never agree with, but he made a lot of sense yesturday in the Senate. He was talking about how corporations like Microsoft and IBM increase their profits by firing American workers and hiring immigrants from India and China. And he quoted a Vice President from Microsoft that basically said American workers make too much money and that's why they go to India to find labor.

The cheap labor of the 3rd world that is exploited by American corporations has put a squeeze on American jobs and salaries. The corporations want more visas to be granted and they want an open border because they know in the long run it will lower their labor costs and increase their profits. Meanwhile the middle class of America will continue to shrink.

i heard one of his speaches- at times he sounds like good presidential material

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:37:09 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		You can't trust someone like Sanders to behave. He'll get all Independent, and not go along with the Political Masters.

Nope, it'll be someone nice and tame. Hillary is tame. Gore is tame. Neither is going to rock the boat.

Fucking Grover Cleveland, asshole, may he rot in hell.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:39:43 AM   
Jack45


Posts: 220
Joined: 12/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 And he quoted a Vice President from Microsoft that basically said American workers make too much money and that's why they go to India to find labor.


Actually he was quoting the HEAD of Microsoft, Steve Ballmer.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:44:46 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4860483760049380308

Steve Ballmer, Fucking Moron.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Jack45)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:55:37 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		No amount of legislation will stop human migration because people with desperate  lives with no future will always migrate with the hope of finding a better life somewhere else. The best way to dtop migration is to solve the problems that cause people to migrate in the first place.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:56:21 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Never trust See-BS or the New York Slimes, they've got this Peter Pan  thing going on where they simply "Imagineer" whatever they want reality to be, as in the Dan Rathergate fiasco where dan Rather's nose just kept on growing, and growing, and growing until he was forced to resign in total disgrace.

The way they word those "polls" have a lot to do with the results, and what I don't see in your post are the actual questions asked OR the full poll results.





_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to selfbnd411)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:58:40 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		now there is a word, "imagineer"-- hmm

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 8:59:17 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Why not? You let George Bush, Rice, Cheney, et. al. get away with Felony violations of 18 USC 371.

If you're not going to hold them accountable to the law, why pretend you have the moral authority to hold anyone?


Don't blame me, I NEVER voted for the monkey. No sir. I'm a smart slave; my state has ALWAYS gone blue in recent memory.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Most Americans Favor Immigration Bill - 5/25/2007 9:00:20 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Never trust See-BS or the New York Slimes, they've got this Peter Pan  thing going on where they simply "Imagineer" whatever they want reality to be, as in the Dan Rathergate fiasco where dan Rather's nose just kept on growing, and growing, and growing until he was forced to resign in total disgrace.

The way they word those "polls" have a lot to do with the results, and what I don't see in your post are the actual questions asked OR the full poll results.






NYT also has fabricated stories in the past. Or in the case of Jayson Blair....completely make up stories.

(in reply to Sanity)
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