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Unconditional Love - 5/25/2007 10:37:28 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		How do you define or describe unconditional love? Is it possible to love someone on a romantic/intimate basis unconditionally? Should we even have that as a realistic goal? Or is it something that should be strived for even if it cannot be attained?

I am not talking about the love we have for our children. It is easy to love them unconditionally, they are a part of us. I am talking about our mates.

Have you ever loved another without condition? Did it teach you anything about yourself?

I will respond to my own questions later if there seems to be interest in the topic.

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/25/2007 10:44:53 PM   
HutchGarahl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

How do you define or describe unconditional love? Is it possible to love someone on a romantic/intimate basis unconditionally? Should we even have that as a realistic goal? Or is it something that should be strived for even if it cannot be attained?

I am not talking about the love we have for our children. It is easy to love them unconditionally, they are a part of us. I am talking about our mates.

Have you ever loved another without condition? Did it teach you anything about yourself?

I will respond to my own questions later if there seems to be interest in the topic.


As with children, I do believe if the love between partners is deep enough, it can be or become unconditional. Though i've only had 1 relationship that deep. Unfortunately...that one ended upon his death.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/25/2007 10:59:55 PM   
szobras


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Status: offline 		Juliaoceania,
The I love that I know is not brought about by conscious decision. It is not based on premeditated thinking or observations, that appeal to me. It appears from a deep level that I could not deny if I tried.
Any conditions that I place on myself or another are contrived from my conscious mind, and not the same "place".
My love for my mate is what is unconditional, it seems to me that it is everything else that we place the conditions on.

< Message edited by szobras -- 5/25/2007 11:00:47 PM >

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/25/2007 11:08:45 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline 		lol dang Julia you said it was only about mates.  i was going to say my parents and they are very fallible.

minnetar

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/25/2007 11:22:35 PM   
Sinergy


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An interesting question.

Conditional means that my love has conditions associated with it.  I see value in everybody, and see anybody and everybody as somebody I might learn something from as I partake of the gift of life that was bequeathed to me.

The problem I have with putting conditions on somebody else is that I really dont see myself as all knowing or wise.  How the hell do I know what this person should do or be?   I am not here to judge.  I am only here to learn and experience.

Sinergy

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/25/2007 11:37:25 PM   
minnetar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy



An interesting question.

Conditional means that my love has conditions associated with it.  I see value in everybody, and see anybody and everybody as somebody I might learn something from as I partake of the gift of life that was bequeathed to me.

The problem I have with putting conditions on somebody else is that I really dont see myself as all knowing or wise.  How the hell do I know what this person should do or be?   I am not here to judge.  I am only here to learn and experience.

Sinergy


Sinergy now that is crap based on you and julia's responses.  You never find any credibility in anyone's replies and you both attack others constantly. You don't debate you debase.  Neither one of you share an opinion without putting down anothers.

minnetar

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/25/2007 11:39:47 PM   
Sinergy


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I heartily apologize for having urinated in your Cheerios, minnetar.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 12:18:00 AM   
girl4you2


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i think that it is possible to love someone on an intimate/romantic basis unconditionally. to put restraints or conditions upon pure love for a person just doesn't fit with the basis of love for me. i've seen conditional love, and i just don't understand it. i believe unconditional love can be attained, and i've had it before and done it before, and it's a truly grand love. it taught me about valuing a person for just themselves, and it taught me about my capacity to feel and give, and helped me to grow.

i hope to find it again someday.

edited because how i'd typed a sentence wasn't clear

< Message edited by girl4you2 -- 5/26/2007 12:19:32 AM >

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 12:23:41 AM   
HeavansKeeper


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Status: offline 		Trust can always be broken.  It can be broken until it's demolished into oblivion.  Because love should be based partially on trust, it has a condition.  It follows to say that a condition of love can always be broken. 

So, if love is based on trust, then unconditional love does not exist.

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 12:27:54 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		What is a  working universal ie applicable to everybody at all times definition of love ?
If there is no such generally agreed definition how can it be sensibly discussed since different people will be talking about different things. NO ?

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 12:34:06 AM   
girl4you2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Trust can always be broken.  It can be broken until it's demolished into oblivion.  Because love should be based partially on trust, it has a condition.  It follows to say that a condition of love can always be broken. 

So, if love is based on trust, then unconditional love does not exist.


whilst trust can be broken, as can relationships, love doesn't end simply because trust has been broken or the relationship ended. trust is a component of caring, but not the determinant of love.

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maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 12:37:17 AM   
girl4you2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

What is a  working universal ie applicable to everybody at all times definition of love ?
If there is no such generally agreed definition how can it be sensibly discussed since different people will be talking about different things. NO ?


each person needs to decide for themself how they define love; there isn't a one way/one path to love. just because there are many varieties of something doesn't mean it can't be discussed. there are many kinds of bugs, but one can have a discussion about arthropods/insecta, yes?

_____________________________

maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 12:52:42 AM   
minnetar


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Joined: 4/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

What is a  working universal ie applicable to everybody at all times definition of love ?
If there is no such generally agreed definition how can it be sensibly discussed since different people will be talking about different things. NO ?


each person needs to decide for themself how they define love; there isn't a one way/one path to love. just because there are many varieties of something doesn't mean it can't be discussed. there are many kinds of bugs, but one can have a discussion about arthropods/insecta, yes?


what is funny is that we can't agree about a definition on anything

minnetar

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 1:03:06 AM   
Zensee


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Status: offline 		In a personal relationship (mates) I don't think it is possible for unconditional love - deep and abiding perhaps, but always with limits.

I think there is an ever present aspect of negotiation in couples and friendships. I can't imagine loving someone who had betrayed me, for instance, so I would see someone who continued loving a person who had betrayed them as dysfunctional rather than enlightened. Granted that perspective could be a symptom of emotional deficits in myself.

I think if you were truly capable of unconditional love you would express that to all people, regardless of your relationship to them. Your relationship IS a condition. Unconditional love, by its nature, would not only apply to your partner and to them you might even seem distant since their ego is not getting any special attention.


Z.

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 1:04:31 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
What is a  working universal ie applicable to everybody at all times definition of love ?
If there is no such generally agreed definition how can it be sensibly discussed since different people will be talking about different things. NO ?


each person needs to decide for themself how they define love; there isn't a one way/one path to love. just because there are many varieties of something doesn't mean it can't be discussed. there are many kinds of bugs, but one can have a discussion about arthropods/insecta, yes?

 
True....but....
if people were discussing insects they would have to clarify whether for example they were discussing mosquitos or flies.
When discussing love no such clarification is usually made and each assumes the other "sees" things as they do. NO?
 
If the discussion gets heated then one is quite likely to assert that the others definition is wrong. NO?

(in reply to girl4you2)
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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 1:08:23 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I think "unconditional love" is another one of those fairy tales we tell ourselves in order to make ourselves feel more secure.  I don't believe there is such a thing, even between parents and children.  There is ALWAYS something another person could do that would change your love for him or her.

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 1:11:01 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL Zensee
I think if you were truly capable of unconditional love you would express that to all people, regardless of your relationship to them

Excellent point, this totally unrealisable ideal is the basis of the Christian message tho'.
The new testament bit anyway lol

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 1:15:36 AM   
girl4you2


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Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
What is a  working universal ie applicable to everybody at all times definition of love ?
If there is no such generally agreed definition how can it be sensibly discussed since different people will be talking about different things. NO ?


each person needs to decide for themself how they define love; there isn't a one way/one path to love. just because there are many varieties of something doesn't mean it can't be discussed. there are many kinds of bugs, but one can have a discussion about arthropods/insecta, yes?

 
True....but....
if people were discussing insects they would have to clarify whether for example they were discussing mosquitos or flies.
When discussing love no such clarification is usually made and each assumes the other "sees" things as they do. NO?
 
If the discussion gets heated then one is quite likely to assert that the others definition is wrong. NO?


as it's quite late and i'm very tired, this will be my last post of the session. i don't feel that the discussion need become heated, and if it were, there's no reason to assume that one has to assert that the other is wrong just because they see things from another point of view or angle. there are many ways to find love, just as there are many ways to find ____. one neeedn't talk of all of the separate varieties to share talking about the commonality of love. the ideal certainly is to have compassion and love for all beings.
i wish you a good night/day and a peaceful day.

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maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 1:27:40 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Unconditional I thought once I understood.  Course I say that in the past tense so all in all I guess there was some condition behind it all.  Or ... maybe not. 

I can saythat for me it is similar to what you have for a child.
You accept and care no matter what although disapointment can be in the picutre.
I think it's wise, it see's the whole picture, it is a deep acceptance.
It isnt romantic, lusty or bold.  I would say it's quite, quite resistant to tarnish and
for the most part maybe consistant. 

Hummm, maybe it's not past tense after all.





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RE: Unconditional Love - 5/26/2007 2:02:30 AM   
AnkleStraps54


Posts: 10
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Wales UK
Status: offline 		Unconditional love for another can only exist once one learns to accept and love oneself with all the strengths and weaknesses that make us who we are. Once we are able to just 'be' we find ourselves able to let others be.
Conditions are about persuading, bullying, cajoling others into being or doing something they haven't chosen for themselves, more about our own need to make them into something we would prefer or find more aceptable.
The Greeks have several categorisations of love, 'agape' (pronounced a gap pay) is a love that enables without any benefit to the 'lover' this love helps the 'loved' to explore their potential and develop it into everything they can be. So, if there are any Greeks out there who understand and practice this concept please contact me :)
Carl Rogers in the late 20th century talked of 'unconditional, positive regard' That is the nearest I can find to explain unconditional love. The basis of this was respect for another persons way of 'being'
I believe unconditional love can be attained, it means that you have nothing invested in changing the other person.... not probable but possible 
shiaz
xx

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