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RE: Job well done - 5/23/2005 7:22:58 PM

ginger21

Posts: 173
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From: Austin, Texas
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sissymaidlola, you're such a bitch!

And I love it!

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/24/2005 6:23:35 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash
Kind of like owning a car, but not having it home to drive...or owning a tool, but having it in someone elses toolbox...seems more symbolic than actual ownership. Appears to me, it would hard for the slave to serve if not present. From a dominants point of view, if it actually was possible to have a detached slave (which I doubt) what would be the point...a slave that isn't there to serve sort of defeats the purpose[/size].

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, I kept forgetting. I have been meaning to do so.

It really depends on what you want to get out of your slave. For me, right now I don't live far away from the Owner at all, so he could literally call me any time of day or night and get whatever he wanted. He would have to wait a little longer if he wanted a cup of coffee from me, but he could get it. Also, we are physically together fairly regularly so that's obviously not an issue even then.

Our situation is obviously unique as well from most M/s situations. The Owner has lived with his primary for almost a decade. They know how to work with eachother, to live with eachother. I am a useful pair of hands for the most part and very good for house and cat sitting when they go on trips together. However, if I were living with them, it would become a case of too MANY hands all the time and interrupting the flow that the Owner and his primary have created together.

For another example, perhaps a dominant wanted their slave to go learn how to do something or get a degree, but this required them to live somewhere else for awhile. Obviously the slave would still be in service to the Owner, doing what the Owner wanted and reaching their long term goals, even if not immediately able to fetch a cup of coffee.

So, it really depends on what type of service and obedience the owner is desiring of.

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/27/2005 11:09:39 AM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 1407
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From: Indiana
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I haven't even been reading the boards for a while, simply because it's frustrating to feel that some of the discussions seem to be pointless, because the specific individuals you are trying to reason with are clueless (reads; they are not listening). I have always took the stance that I will not engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person..but I'll take exception in this case.

quote:

...None of them have said "Emerald, sorry, you're not really a slave" While they may believe a slave must be owned, since I happen to be presently owned, the conflict of our definitions would only really take possession at such time at which I was not owned.

Pssst...if what you say about your situation is true..you aren't owned, so no you are not a slave! I suspect you are more accurately, collared, and that's a stretch. There..someone said it..I suspect many were thinking it.

If you were truely owned..I am quite certain you would not be allowed to post your comments degrading the entire M/s dynamic in the first place.

quote:

Our situation is obviously unique as well from most M/s situations.

I would be inclined to agree, except it's not M/s

quote:

I am a useful pair of hands for the most part and very good for house and cat sitting when they go on trips together.

Yeah, that would certainly be my definition of a slave....I think NOT. I guess a teenager living at home qualifies as a slave to you then.

quote:

However, if I were living with them, it would become a case of too MANY hands all the time and interrupting the flow that the Owner and his primary have created together.

Pretty well sums up that you have no concept of what a slave is. Might I suggest you don't put that comment on the poly board..you would be ripped to shreds.

Yes, this was somewhat retaliatory because I don't feel you are qualified or experienced in M/s to any extent to where you can intelligently have an opinion. To have an opinion that would be meaningful..the poster have some degree of experience, AKA understanding of the situation...which you have not.

Slaves do not top others or take the position of a trainer as a Dominant for other subs or slaves, phone, on line, R/T or otherwise..that falls under the term switch...sorry 'bout ya. If you are the one putting someone in a cage..you are the Dominant at that point. (Gotta watch what you put in a profile). They do not go about their daily lives negotiating when and where they going or what they are agreeing to do. Slaves are totally dedicated to their Owners/Masters/Mistresses and do not have boyfriends or impromptu encounters with others, without specific permission from said owners/Masters/Mistresses. I don't mean some open end agreement either..that won't even work for a collared sub. The mere suggestion that that would be allowed is preposterous. Owners DO want to know where their slave is and what they are doing, in most cases permission would have to have been given in the first place.

quote:

So, it really depends on what type of service and obedience the owner is desiring of.

No..it doesn't, to that I say bull. An owner wants to own you, period..it. You are perhaps somewhat of a submissive, but in no way, shape, or form a slave by any standards. You are not there, you are not at beckoned call, you are not in service...for all practical purposes, you are broken if you are a slave. To those who take the passive stance and say that "we should be more tolerant" and "well they can call themselves what they want"...NO, we don't have to be tolerant and NO, they can't. The terms were devised for a reason..an identifyer, a characterization of one's role in the lifestyle...so hell no, it cannot be manipulated to suit someone's ego simply because it sounds more appealing to them. It has nothing to do with a dictionary and it has nothing to do with being open minded...a slave is owned..the slave gives that power and control to the Owner/Master/Mistress. They really are owned in the minds of both. When they are owned they will do, live, act, behave, etc. what they are told and in their mind, live for the opportunity to serve their owner(s). At that point....the TPE, which is not pointless by any stretch of the imagination, including yours, occurs...it is not just a scene to a slave, it is their life. TPE (Total Power Exchange) is a term (more accurately an acronym)...no one gave you permission to try to redefine it, it works fine, it doesn't need your tweeking. Yes, the Master or Mistress DOES have the power..because it was given to them. For you to try and belittle it or come up with your own terms (like "totally pointless expression")..that is the pointless part and personally I take offense. These terms were devised well before you were even having your diapers changed and no one including you are going to run into the arena and change them. They are there, they are used and are accurate, as are many of the other terms you no doubt disagree with...deal with it.
[size]

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/27/2005 1:03:37 PM

allyC

Posts: 778
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

Slaves do not top others or take the position of a trainer as a Dominant for other subs or slaves, phone, on line, R/T or otherwise..that falls under the term switch

...Unless it pleases their owner that they do so. There are many poly slave type relationships were one slave may be directed to train, top, cage, or beat the other slave because the owner wishes it to be that way. Topping and being dominant are not the same thing. The slave's purpose is to serve, obey, and please his/her owner, not to tell him "No, I won't do it because then I will look like a switch".

Furthermore, just because one person is enslaved to another person, it doesn't make them enslaved to the rest of the world. Take me for example. There is no question that I have surrendered to my owner but I'm still a dominant person in my dealings with many other people. The only people I react submissively to are those who inspire it. I may behave submissively as required by my owner or protocol, however, my submissive reactions are purely individual, based on who I am interacting with at any given moment.

If I behave in a dominant manner with the gardner, directing him where to trim the shrubs and pull weeds, does that negate my slavery? It could be looked at the same where topping is concerned. If I were to engage in a scene where I topped someone, does that mean I'm not abjectly subervient to my owner? Does it mean he no longer controls me? If it was my owner's wish that I do so, wouldn't that fall right in line with the program?

quote:

Owners DO want to know where their slave is and what they are doing, in most cases permission would have to have been given in the first place.

I believe that there may be some owners who are really not into any sort of micromanagement. As long as their slave is available to them when necessary, is obedient, and behaves in a manner that is pleasing, then I don't see where there is a foul here.

To be a slave, person a must be absolutely subservient to person b. Person b must own person a (in the sense that they have control over that person.)

If these two criteria are being met, the rest is all personal preference in my opinion. Just because person b has control of person a, it doesn't mean that they must demonstratively exercise that control every minute of every day - it simply means that they retain the right to control person a.

If a man owns a slave, and the slave lives 3 blocks away because that man wants her to live 3 blocks away because his own personal preferences are that he wants to live by himself or with a different person, then more power to him. If he tells her he wants her to be a sexual being and delight in sensual pleasures with others when he is not around, then again, it is his preference.

If she is calling the shots, then I agree, it would cease to appear to be slavery, however, as long as everything is being run beneath the umbrella of control that the owner holds within his upper hand - as long as the slave is behaving in a manner that is consistant with the owner's rules, desires, needs, wants, instructions, guidelines, pleasure etc., then I don't see a problem.

Each owner/master/mistress will have different preferences. Some allow their slaves to sit on furniture, some don't. Some prefer their slaves sleep in the bed with them, others prefer they sleep in a cage or on the floor. Some owners want multiple slaves to all live under the same roof and others might only want one to live in his home and the rest to be nearby.

No one can decide what another owner wants from his slave. Each person will be different.

In my case, I've never topped anyone or maintained a separate intimate relationship from the one I have with my owner. This is for two reasons. First & foremost, because my owner prefers that I don't do these things and secondly, because those clubs aren't in my bag, so to speak. but if he told me tomorrow that he wanted me top so-and-so at the next party, then my answer would be simple - "Yes, Master."

We are always free to judge the actions and relationships of others in the lifestyle, but our judgements will always be the results of our own opinions, likes, dislikes, and collective experiences mixed with semantics and what we hold to be the accepted definitions of lifestyle terms. We might find our own judgements to be factual but to the next person, our take on things is nothing more than another opinion.

Well wishes to everyone :)

-Cav's girl
ally

< Message edited by allyC -- 5/27/2005 1:05:39 PM >

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to which he replied, "Yup, and slave rhymes with cunt."

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/27/2005 3:13:23 PM

darkinshadows

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I really wonder why people have to decide who and what they can label others who they have
a) No dominance over

b) No real knowledge of.

Everything you said is fine -FOR YOU.

Your Lady may stand beside you.
Your subs may submit to you.
Your slaves may.

But nobody else has to. Nobody else does. If You wish to 'pick' on someone - then don't overide their Master - now thats just plain disrespectful and THATS not the definition within WIITWD.

What does it matter what someone calls themself? You don't have to agree, but you could accept its going to happen. So you don't like it? So people don't conform to your ideals. So people don't use a 'label' that doesn't fit your tastes? - well sorry to sound so harsh but tough. We might all like soup, but doesn't mean we will like the same brand. People have to stop worrying about others lives and move forward on their own.

Peace and Love

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/27/2005 3:51:13 PM

ScooterTrash

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quote:

THATS not the definition within WIITWD.

Then don't mind me if I decide that this silly acronym WIITWD should really mean; Wonder If I Think Whining Dictates.

It's not like we need to have anything standardized?

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/27/2005 5:39:28 PM

darkinshadows

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quote:

Then don't mind me if I decide that this silly acronym WIITWD should really mean; Wonder If I Think Whining Dictates.

It's not like we need to have anything standardized?

Your right - we don't. You can make up anything you want. You can call anything you desire exactly what you need if it fits when you need it.

If someone is a slave of heart and would wish to become a slave in its fullest sense - then if thats what a man wanted, how would he find her if he didn't know she has the heart of a slave? Its not all fairy tales and white knights. Its hard. And if someone calls themself a slave, then you would have more chance to find a girl your looking for.

Just because a woman has blue eyes and blonde hair, doesn't make her scandinavian. Just makes her blue eyed blonde. What makes her, is her teaching and her experience.

But I think it is unhelpful to attack people because they are different to your definition. You think it looks good to see a man say to an owned slave 'your not really a slave' because she doesn't fit his criteria? What does it matter what he thinks?
It just makes 'a community' look bitter and twisted in its approach and the people just very small minded. And thats the disappointment and hurtful.

If you can't accept each other for themselves within it, how can you demand to be accepted outside it?

Ridicule begats disrespect - acceptance begats compassion.

(you=generic 'you')

Peace and Love

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/27/2005 7:40:15 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

Then don't mind me if I decide that this silly acronym WIITWD should really mean; Wonder If I Think Whining Dictates.

It's not like we need to have anything standardized?

Your right - we don't. You can make up anything you want. You can call anything you desire exactly what you need if it fits when you need it.

I have stayed out of this until now, but I am going to state My view. As quickly as possible.

You're right. W/we don't have to have any consistency. It is a free for all. And now I have to state specifically on My profile what slave means to Me, and what I seek, and I still have to wade through 100+ emails a week, from boys who do not understand, and really can't figure out why I don't want to just chat with them for a few hours a week, on IM or phone. Isn't that what makes them a slave? Isn't that what makes them owned? It works for them! I am too extreme! Yes, I actually had a boy tell Me that once. And he has a right to that opinion. But why does he think I am too extreme? I say what I want, but he doesn't really believe it, because most of what he reads is pretty casual and anything goes, so he assumes that must be what I mean and what I want too. After all, it is what he is being taught by reading message boards and participating in chatrooms. So it must to be the generally accepted view of what D/s and M/s is all about, right? And I am talking about D/s and M/s here...I am not referring to the BDSM playtime kink.
I do not want to attack anyone, but when I see so much of this "it's whatever you want it to mean" and what I believe in and live is receiving a quiet little back hand, I feel like My beliefs in the basics and the importance of those basics are being belittled and attacked. I don't tell you that you can't have it your way, so please don't tell Me that I can't have it My way. I don't say Mine is the only way, but My way does subscribe to the old fashioned basics of D/s and M/s. For anyone who wants to bend it their way, say that you do so, and why this is acceptable and works for you and yours. Don't present it as if this is the norm in this lifestyle. Because it isn't.
Oh hell, I guess the norm now is to cyber away. So have at it. Who am I anyway?
*admits with a sigh that She is being more bitchy than classy right now.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 5/27/2005 7:50:10 PM >

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/27/2005 9:05:55 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

I do not want to attack anyone, but when I see so much of this "it's whatever you want it to mean" and what I believe in and live is receiving a quiet little back hand, I feel like My beliefs in the basics and the importance of those basics are being belittled and attacked. I don't tell you that you can't have it your way, so please don't tell Me that I can't have it My way. I don't say Mine is the only way, but My way does subscribe to the old fashioned basics of D/s and M/s. For anyone who wants to bend it their way, say that you do so, and why this is acceptable and works for you and yours. Don't present it as if this is the norm in this lifestyle. Because it isn't.

quote:

Slaves are totally dedicated to their Owners/Masters/Mistresses and do not have boyfriends or impromptu encounters with others, without specific permission from said owners/Masters/Mistresses. I don't mean some open end agreement either..that won't even work for a collared sub. The mere suggestion that that would be allowed is preposterous. Owners DO want to know where their slave is and what they are doing, in most cases permission would have to have been given in the first place.

<Standing ovation!!!>

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/28/2005 9:02:02 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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I don't think Scooter was attacking me, and it's good to have someone who can actually articulate their perspective rather than just lashing out in a frustration "You're not who you are!" with no justification.

Obviously we just come at this from very different places and since neither of us are likely to change that perspective anytime soon, it's just how it is.

For me, being a slave is about ultimate authority, who has the final say on anything- and I mean anything. It's not about who is where, who does what, who says what, it's about who has authority and who does not.

I live truly to that. Expecting others to agree with my perspective is something that would only lead to disappointment.

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/28/2005 10:09:00 AM

Storm1206

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Oops

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/28/2005 10:10:20 AM

stormsfate

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Let me try again, now that I have realized my owner was still logged in...lol.

quote:

Slaves do not top others or take the position of a trainer as a Dominant for other subs or slaves, phone, on line, R/T or otherwise..that falls under the term switch...sorry 'bout ya.

I haven't read much of this thread, but did want to comment on the above statement as it just smacks of ...well, it smacks of another one of those "one true way"isms. :::sigh::

Slaves do what their owner tells them to do, unless they are rankly disobedient. Now perhaps your slave(s) do not do this, but are you really trying to tell others what they may and may not do with their property? <shaking head> Well, good luck with that. I don't personally know many dominants who would willingly follow anyone's guidelines but their own, and they certainly don't limit themselves on what they want by listening to others say "oh, a *real* (insert label) would never do that! Should my owner ever tell me to top...I'd do my best to top (not sure where I would start since I have no need inside for topping, and thus little understanding of the need, but I'd give it my best shot...lol.

While I'm well aware that historical slavery and wiitwd and call slavery differs radically, historically speaking, however, slaves were often in charge of other slaves, often dispensed punishments to other slaves based upon their owner's orders, and <gasp> in at least one case I'm familiar with, even owned a business! Property is property and can be disposed of, loaned, placed in other's possession or whatever without "title" (so to speak) being transferred. (Sudden thought...oh my! Did you mean to tell me that if my owner lives in NY and owns property in CA, its not really his property because it isn't with him???) I'm just being facetious, but the principal is the same. I do struggle to understand LDR's when it comes to an O/p relationship, but in Emerald's situation at least, she lives close to him and I really don't understand everyone's need to place a label on their relationship and I understand even less the need to argue with someone else the dynamics of *their* relationship based on their comments on an online bulletin board.

best regards,
fate

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/29/2005 8:47:35 PM

RiotGirl

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Sometimes in life, people take to the exact meaning of a word or group of words way to seriously. IF you have to reiterate into the meaning of a word that much, then you really need to get out of the room, and back into life. Obviously, NOONE can have total control of a person in any sense. But if you think that the term TPE mean, that everthing and anything about a person is controlled, then you are a total n00b to the lifestyle. Go somewhere else and bitch and moan about it. This goes to show, that people ahve way to much time on their hands, doing absolutly nothing, then living life. Grow up, and Move on.

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/29/2005 8:51:05 PM

LadyAngelika

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Is that the best you can do RiotGirl? Come on, I'm sure you can get even more intolerant then that. Come on, don't hold back, show us just how disrespectful of other people’s opinions you can really be.

- LA

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/30/2005 8:22:29 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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It's ok, I told her the last time she thanked me and complimented me on my advice that I was sure in a month she would find something I said totally inane.

When people like what you say, you're a genius. When they don't like what you say, you're an idiot.

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Post #: 95

RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/30/2005 8:37:26 AM

ScooterTrash

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quote:

quote:

Slaves do not top others or take the position of a trainer as a Dominant for other subs or slaves, phone, on line, R/T or otherwise..that falls under the term switch...sorry 'bout ya.

I haven't read much of this thread, but did want to comment on the above statement as it just smacks of ...well, it smacks of another one of those "one true way"isms. :::sigh::

Perhaps I should reiterate, I wasn't referring to this as a specific assigned task...more as a doing of their own accord. I regret if this was misinterpretted. I personally wouldn't require a sub/bottom/slave to top, but yes it is done by some on occasion.

quote:

Property is property and can be disposed of, loaned, placed in other's possession or whatever without "title" (so to speak) being transferred. (Sudden thought...oh my! Did you mean to tell me that if my owner lives in NY and owns property in CA, its not really his property because it isn't with him???)

True, but what would be the point, unless for some income generating or investment (or something similar) purpose. I own many things I don't have in my immediate possession, but there is some inherent reason for doing so (stocks, liens on cars, etc.). I was simply attempting to show, that if the intended use of a slave was to serve the owner, this would be better facilitated by the slave being in physical possession. Perhaps in hindsite, using Emerald's particular situation as an example, was at the very least in bad taste (and for that I can apologize), but my point was that there are some basic principles with regard to slave ownership, which is, in part, was the basis of some prior discussions on the thread. A more appropriate example that comes to mind is on-line slaves, which you can readily find in any chatroom.

We've 'bout beat this poor proverbial horse to death anyway, I think I'll just let him go to pasture..lol.

< Message edited by ScooterTrash -- 5/30/2005 8:47:44 AM >

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Post #: 96

RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/30/2005 3:27:08 PM

LadyAngelika

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Funny thing is Em, even though you don't have me totally convinced of your theory, I still consider you to be a clever woman for pushing the boundaries of what you've been taught to be the standard by applying critical and creative thinking. That is, in my educated opinion, not a sign of an idiot.

- LA

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RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/30/2005 10:36:59 PM

RiotGirl

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Hm

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 5/30/2005 10:46:48 PM >

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Post #: 98

RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/30/2005 11:39:15 PM

Dom4TPE

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I need to step in here, because I do not appreciate my fiance, being put down, like she has been,..........LA. First off, if you are naive enough to believe that the exact meaning of a word is the way it should go, knowing that the Bible, and The documents written for each and every government around the world, have all be rewritten to fit the needs of whoever feels it needs to be revised, then you are as you said, an idiot. No matter how much, one believes they are into the BDSM Lifestyle 100%, most of your life, still has to incorporate the vanilla aspect of the world. WHY? Because if you dont, then you'll get locked up, and have everyone that is involved with you and the lifestyle locked up.

There is a serious problem here, with the way, people mis-construde what is meant through a thought. I found c.com to be one of the more level edged sites out there, to meet and talk to others with-in the lifestyle, but then I come to messages like this, and it blows my mind, that people are stuck in a fantasy, that they cannot fully live. WHY? Because society, will not allow it, no matter how hard you try.

Everyone needs to take a step back, and think for a second, and then rethink every aspect of their life, and then the lives of those around them, and come to the realisation, that this lifestyle, is still lived with-in the closet, and kept hidden from alot of the world.

I've never made an opinion like this on the site before, because alot of the forums, have been fair, and kept with-in a certain level of respect for everyone that posted. But upon reading the response to my fiances post (RiotGirl), I am now astounded that, some of you cannot hold the respect to reason, rather then insult. Your no better off, then the individuals that shun us, for being involved in the life-style, and you should be ashamed of yourself, for not being able to be civilized, and respectful.

And to add to Posts from the past. For those of that are quick to jump to the "She Bi-Polar" conclusion. Ill have you all know, that she has been tested with several different Professionals, to be sure, and it comes back that she is NOT Bi-Polar.

Once again, instead of opening your mouths and removing all doubt of how much intelligent one might have, keep your mouths shut, and let people wonder.

ENOUGH of belittling people, that are adding to a conversation. At least they have the brains to make a voice with-in the community, and they dont hide with-in their heads like so many do, in fear. It takes a lot for someone that is learning, to make a voice and express what they feel, or what they have experienced. Especially ones that have been abused, far more then some of us can imagine. But I guess that some of you are better then everyone else here, so that gives you the right, to just be beligerent, and put down, whomever whenever.

GRRRRRRRRR! I get irritated, when so many of you, actually make good points, and bring up good topics to talk about, and then you go and screw up all credibility for yourself, when your actions are something like that. Or you say something as ignorant as what was said. Once again, Grow Up!

If you really want to go off on a rant about something that is worth your while, go off on all the money hungry people, that are asking/demanding for tribute, to just talk to someone. This has got to be the lowest level of life that one can achieve. Lets see where this goes......

< Message edited by Dom4TPE -- 5/31/2005 12:05:43 AM >

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Dont judge me on my beliefs, Judge me on the fact, that my beliefs bring such an uproar in your life to make you want to waste your time trying to figure me out...

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Post #: 99

RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? - 5/31/2005 4:12:05 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

But upon reading the response to my fiances post (RiotGirl), I am now astounded that, some of you cannot hold the respect to reason, rather then insult. Your no better off, then the individuals that shun us, for being involved in the life-style, and you should be ashamed of yourself, for not being able to be civilized, and respectful.

Look. This is what your fiancé posted:

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
Sometimes in life, people take to the exact meaning of a word or group of words way to seriously. IF you have to reiterate into the meaning of a word that much, then you really need to get out of the room, and back into life. Obviously, NOONE can have total control of a person in any sense. But if you think that the term TPE mean, that everthing and anything about a person is controlled, then you are a total n00b to the lifestyle. Go somewhere else and bitch and moan about it. This goes to show, that people ahve way to much time on their hands, doing absolutly nothing, then living life. Grow up, and Move on.

If that you do not consider this rude and intolerant, then the problem is greater then I thought.

Then perhaps you should explain to her that when she lashes out at people, she'll get a little lash back. I actually think I was nice to be honest. I simply pointed out how absolutely intolerant she was being, a gentle reminder so to speak.

Emerald never, ever suggested that everyone should drop TPE and go her way. She was simply relaying how, after much reflection, she saw another way and shared it with us. A "n00b", as riotgirl put it, could not come up with such a reflection. It takes someone who understands the dynamics to make such a thoughtful reflection.

If you and riotgirl do not like this point of view, as do many others, fine. No one said you had to. But that doesn't mean you have carte blanche to insult people.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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