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RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 4:45:04 PM

youngnwilling

Posts: 13
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Same subject, different issue...

Religion has been brought into this argument. While I have already stated my opinion on that, I wish to expand on it. I was raised in a strict Roman Catholic household, and went to catholic/private school up until college. I consider myself to be religious and spiritual, but I have major issues with organized religion. I will stick to the Catholic church, because that is what I know best. The church is a buisness just like the government and is just as corrupt and hypocritical! I personally can not consider myself a practicing member of an organization which condemns homosexuallity and then has an all gay male choir sing at Sunday mass (happened locally). I don't give a shit about gay men singing in church, but don't let them sing, and then condemn what they do and who they are in the homliy the next week. I could go on with other example of how they are all hypocrits, but I think my point has gotten across.

(in reply to youngnwilling)

Post #: 121

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 4:54:02 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: youngnwilling
I personally can not consider myself a practicing member of an organization which condemns homosexuallity and then has an all gay male choir sing at Sunday mass (happened locally). I don't give a shit about gay men singing in church, but don't let them sing, and then condemn what they do and who they are in the homliy the next week. I could go on with other example of how they are all hypocrits, but I think my point has gotten across.

Not really. Being a homosexual male is not condemned. Acting on it is. I can see if they want to have a homosexual choir. Why not? They are not any less human than anyone else.

However, that notwithstanding, I can not stand organized religion either. I have no use for it at all. I guess it is great if Y/you are up to twisting what the Bible has to say all out of shape in such a way as to make approaching God prohibitive.

Edit: Yikes!! I am saying all these things and CM is telling Me I am a deviant... lol.

That must have just changed.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 5/30/2005 4:55:25 PM >

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

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(in reply to youngnwilling)

Post #: 122

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 5:34:26 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Please see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 where God uses Paul to convey His message re: unacceptable sins.

Ummm...nope again - wrong context.
You will find that the original translation (if you study the words, not just accept a labeled meaning) is speaking of those that lay with men in a sexual and unjustified nature(ie - male, female - outside of marriage ie fornication) This of course has been changed via the years so that it is interpretated as 'male on male' but the original text translates as sexual relations outside of marriage with a man. Paul was not taking to men specifically and in fact it can't be proved He was. Effeminate Man is a male lacking in manliness(which could be lacking in sperm, a penis, bodily hair, virility etc). This was the original meaning before being evolved. If He had been speaking about homosexuals He would have used the word paiderasste which was the word for homosexuals at the time. The use of the word sodimites has been taken to mean those of sodom(classic story - won't bore) However Paul used the word 'malakoi' - which when translated means loose and also 'arsenokoitai' which was a word for a protitute - So, by your calculation using said texts, you too would be condemmed as we should also not be forgeting those involved with slavery. And perverts. (Which of course, you are released from because of Jesus - good choice!)

In Timothy, they are speaking of catamites which were originally the young boys taken and sodomised against their will(ie forced sex against young boys) - the evolution of the words and the misinterpretations of the text from the original trans from the hebrew/greek/english is something that has been used 'against' the bible for many years.

Any more? I love words!

quote:

btw, fwiw, I hate centered posts SOOOOO much. Way too hard on the eyes when they are replete with formatting and everything else. Not to mention it is a pain in the rear end to remove all the formatting in order to formulate a reasonable reply. I think that is in BBS101

Ya knows me an my questions...lol What is fwiw? And BBS101?
Good job You don't have me submitting then hey! Demon likes it and thats the main thing, and many others also. If you don't like the text, don't read it - pretty simple really. I don't do the Y/you M/me kinda thing - but if it floats your boat and is what makes you, you, then go for it!

Peace and Love

*edit for quotations

< Message edited by dark~angel -- 5/30/2005 5:35:07 PM >

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 123

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 5:43:33 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel
Ummm...nope again - wrong context.
You will find that the original translation (if you study the words, not just accept a labeled meaning) is speaking of those that lay with men in a sexual and unjustified nature(ie - male, female - outside of marriage ie fornication) This of course has been changed via the years so that it is interpretated as 'male on male' but the original text translates as sexual relations outside of marriage with a man. Paul was not taking to men specifically and in fact it can't be proved He was. Effeminate Man is a male lacking in manliness(which could be lacking in sperm, a penis, bodily hair, virility etc). This was the original meaning before being evolved. If He had been speaking about homosexuals He would have used the word paiderasste which was the word for homosexuals at the time. The use of the word sodimites has been taken to mean those of sodom(classic story - won't bore) However Paul used the word 'malakoi' - which when translated means loose and also 'arsenokoitai' which was a word for a protitute - So, by your calculation using said texts, you too would be condemmed as we should also not be forgeting

No, I am afraid you are quite mistaken. Paul was not writing those words to speak of fornication, actually. The Greek word is malakos (Strongs # 3120) and it quite literally means effeminate, a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness in this context, meaning homosexuals.

Paul was speaking out against the rampant homosexuality of the majority of the Roman emperors that had come to power, going so far as to having young men castrated and marrying them or themselves marrying other men as the "wife" (Nero). Paul, speaking under authority from God, was clearly outraged and spoke out against what was becoming a common practice.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 124

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 6:00:31 PM

DemonAngel

Posts: 36
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

Malakoi / Malakee

Meaning is effeminate which doesn't translate into 'homosexual' as it doesn't actually exist as a word. The meaning for effeminate from when it was translated hundreds of years ago meant a >man without vigour< or >a virless male< not a gay man.

Anyway, using that i would guess that lesbians must be exempt then:)

Malakos is a description of soft, flowing loose cloth.

And i wanted to correct d because the word >arsenokoitai< is a pimp, not a prostitue as such but someone who deals with prostitution.

Demon

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 125

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 6:24:29 PM

DemonAngel

Posts: 36
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

Just so this is back to topic then same sex marriage is between the people getting married, no one else.Its up to them and if its going to make them happy then they should be true to it.End of the day, religions a personal issue so thats neither here or there.But people in a commited relationship should all be given equal rights whether straight or gay.Why should people be fucked over by governments because they are in love?

Demon

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 126

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 8:14:07 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

A marriage is not a contract.

In the eyes of the law, yes it is.

No, I'm afraid it isn't. If you knew your Law you would not be making these assertions. A contract is a legal agreement between two people where only one of the people may break the contract at any time and walk away. A covenant is an agreement between two or more people where none of the parties may break the covenant of their own accord, but all must mutually agree. How do you ascertain whether God will agree to enter into the covenant or break the covenant? By applying Biblical standards, all there in black and white for you to read.

If I got married and I decided I wanted out of this contract, I would apply for a divorce and I would terminate my contract. It's a contract.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 127

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 8:17:50 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

Since all Christians know for a fact that God hates the act of homosexuality to the point where it is specifically stated that God will not allow them to enter heaven, then W/we know for sure that God will not condone homosexual marriages.

quote:

Ummmm..... where? Coz you keep mentioning it and I am damned(by your thoughts I guess) if I know where it mentions? Please help!

Please see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 where God uses Paul to convey His message re: unacceptable sins.

I now quote from SirKenin's profile:

I prefer a bi-female, although straight is also fine by Me.

So you have no issues with a girl who will go straight to hell in order to please your perverse desires huh? Women eating another women's pussy is a homosexual act! And a damn fine act might I add!

I will now obstaing from the long list of names I am so tempted to type out. I'm sure you are all saying them in harmony with me.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/30/2005 8:21:51 PM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 128

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 8:34:20 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

The State really has nothing to do with marriage when you think about it.

Jesus and the bible quite heavily say that you should follow the laws, and that being said, in the eyes of the law, the law states it is, (as M'Lady A has already stated - thanks to You as always)

My pleasure as always, angel.

A little more food for though - an exerpt from the Civil Marriage Act of Canada -- which is the country Kenin and I live in.

Many Canadians support legal recognition for same-sex unions, but want to call them something other than marriage, such as civil union. Civil union is a separate institution from civil marriage, does not respect the right of same-sex couples to equality without discrimination and is in breach of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The Supreme Court of Canada has determined that Parliament has legislative jurisdiction over marriage but does not have the jurisdiction to establish an institution other than marriage for couples of the same sex.

The Government’s commitment to uphold the right to equality without discrimination precludes the use of the notwithstanding clause to deny the right of couples of the same sex to equal access to civil marriage.

Marriage is a fundamental institution in Canadian society and the Parliament of Canada has a responsibility to support that institution because it strengthens commitment in relationships and represents the foundation of family life for many Canadians.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/30/2005 8:35:29 PM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 129

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 8:36:16 PM

Ssilver

Posts: 53
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I now quote from SirKenin's profile:

I prefer a bi-female, although straight is also fine by Me.

So you have no issues with a girl who will go straight to hell in order to please your perverse desires huh? Women eating another women's pussy is a homosexual act! And a damn fine act might I add!

I will now obstaing from the long list of names I am so tempted to type out. I'm sure you are all saying them in harmony with me.

- LA

And that should be the end of that, I think.

_____________________________

www.akashaweb.com

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 130

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 9:02:44 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

OK HOW DO YOU SPEL HIPPOCRIT?

(in reply to Ssilver)

Post #: 131

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 9:33:08 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

I have no problems at all with bi-females, homosexuals, lesbians or anything else of the sort. There is a reason that I prefer bi-females, but it is not for what you think it is, I am sorry to ruin your roast.

Edit: Please note that I have no problem with the people, just the act. I think I have made that point very clear, and if I have not then there is no harm in restating it. I also like homosexual and bi-sexual men, but not at all because I am homosexual. In fact, My favorite haunt is a lifestyles club.

Nice try though. You can go back to aimlessly and pointlessly patting yourself on the back and taking things out of context now.

Incidentally, while you are trying to discredit Me because you can not come up with any factual substance to back you up instead, would you care to tell Me how My preference in women's characteristics relates to homosexual marriage? Oh. Right. It does not. Fancy that. Funny, neither does a woman's qualities (and what qualities would be more prominent in a bi-sexual woman as opposed to a straight woman) bear any relation on the topic of the actual act. Whoops. Do you suppose you should have asked for clarification of what I was looking for before you decided to make a fool of yourself? Something I would have been tempted to do.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 5/30/2005 9:48:58 PM >

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 132

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 9:34:11 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

OK HOW DO YOU SPEL HIPPOCRIT?

It certainly is not the way you spell it, that is for sure.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hypocrite

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 133

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 9:37:31 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

A marriage is not a contract.

In the eyes of the law, yes it is.

No, I'm afraid it isn't. If you knew your Law you would not be making these assertions. A contract is a legal agreement between two people where only one of the people may break the contract at any time and walk away. A covenant is an agreement between two or more people where none of the parties may break the covenant of their own accord, but all must mutually agree. How do you ascertain whether God will agree to enter into the covenant or break the covenant? By applying Biblical standards, all there in black and white for you to read.

If I got married and I decided I wanted out of this contract, I would apply for a divorce and I would terminate my contract. It's a contract.

- LA

Nice try, but that is not the way it works. If you decide to divorce, you must either have your spouse's agreement, or you must file for a contested divorce and give a damn good reason to the Judge in order to get out of it. So sorry, but you are wrong. It is a covenant.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 134

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 9:49:02 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

OK SirKenin, since you've proved that you know how to look up "hypocrite" in a dictionary, and therefore must have noticed what the word means.

Why on EARTH would you be looking for a bi-female if you don't approve of "the act"?

Edited to add: In legal terms, a marriage is neither a contract nor a covenant. It's really hard to have a substantive conversation with someone who continually uses terms and concepts that he doesn't understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I have no problems at all with bi-females, homosexuals, lesbians or anything else of the sort. There is a reason that I prefer bi-females, but it is not for what you think it is, I am sorry to ruin your roast.

Edit: Please note that I have no problem with the people, just the act.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 5/30/2005 9:57:11 PM >

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 135

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 9:51:29 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

OK SirKenin, since you've proved that you know how to look up "hypocrite" in a dictionary, and therefore must have noticed what the word means.

Why on EARTH would you be looking for a bi-female if you don't approve of "the act"?

That is something you should have asked BEFORE you made a fool of yourself.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 136

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 9:54:18 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I'm not the one who's looking for a bi-female but believes homosexuals are going to fry in hell.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 137

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 9:57:48 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm not the one who's looking for a bi-female but believes homosexuals are going to fry in hell.

Only those practicing the act My friend and not turning T/their backs on it and choosing to live a life of celibacy instead... Like I said, you should have asked. It is a little late now.

However, even if T/they are practicing the act on an ongoing basis, I refuse to turn My backs on T/them and not be T/their friends. Like I said, I happen to like homosexuals. There are qualities about them that I really admire.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 5/30/2005 9:58:50 PM >

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 138

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 10:00:03 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

So you mean to say you're looking for a bi-female who has turned her back on being bi and is now only straight? Or you're looking for a bi female who is celibate?

I might even believe that if your profile had said any of this.

Unfortunately, it didn't.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 139

RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/30/2005 10:08:00 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

So you mean to say you're looking for a bi-female who has turned her back on being bi and is now only straight? Or you're looking for a bi female who is celibate?

I might even believe that if your profile had said any of this.

Unfortunately, it didn't.

It does not have to. How is that any of your concern? How is it A/anyone's concern here? It is not. T/they merely tried to play it as T/their Ace up the sleeve and it failed, rather T/they acted too soon and made complete fools out of T/themselves by not asking what it was that made Me desire to seek out a bi-sexual woman. What is it about a bi-sexual woman that attracts Me? Is it that the only thing T/they are good for is bi-sexual sex? Is that the solitaire common denominator? I thought Y/you people professed to be the open-minded ones. Quite frankly Y/your statements betray Y/you. Either that or Y/you lack wisdom and discernment. Or perhaps it is both.

I hate to break it to you, but I am not shallow, nor am I stupid. I have dated bi's and straights, not to mention I have several homo- and bi-sexual friends. I have had plenty of opportunities to observe and get to know some common key characteristics. Unfortunately Y/you folks have failed to ascertain the facts, merely jumped to conclusions in light of the conversation in a vain effort to trip Me up or paint Me to look the part of a fool. Hah. Ooops.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 140

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