realist
Posts: 22
Joined: 5/19/2005
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I have made the bulk of my argument. I did not reply to many posts before because I wanted to make the complete series of arguments comprising my position on the online versus real life issue.
Now I turn to replying to the better points in this thread. (I will, however, not ever be replying to insults and flaming)
I'll start from page 1 and work my way through all posts where a reply from me could be expected.
ProtagonistLily wrote:
quote:
I too, and tired of debating this fantasy when the evidence of my reality has been that much differant.
The same is true for me. My real life BDSM experiences are genuine, online pretending is not. Why then are people like me the minority online? Why did I make this thread? That is part of why. I am not, after all the only one who feels this way.
Thank you ProtagonistLily 
EmeraldSlave2 wrote:
quote:
The issues you discuss here are present in every single culture, in every single sub-culture and have been throughout every single time period in history.
True, ever meet a guy who bought a Harley Davidson motorcycle and suddenly thought himself a 1% gang member bad-ass? Just like the online pretended mythology and unjustly altered and subsequently projected view of self, these people also live in a non-reality no more genuine than a coloring book. Not all bikers are this way just as not all online BDSMers are adherents to online mythology. Though, they should not drown out our voices as the case currently is.
quote:
Of course, putting down other peoples fetishes is also a time-honored "high-quality" tradition in our community, one which you seem to employ quite easily.
It's too bad your earlier cogent thought was followed by this small flaming. I have not put down a valid fetish, I have justly condemned exploitation of vulnerable submissive people, which is rampant at Collarme.com. Again I say as clear as can be, BDSM for money is not a valid fetish, it's a con job, a scam, a lie used for financial gain, and as such, is illegal as well as immoral. I am proud to put that sort of thing down, plus, doing so can only improve the online aspect of the BDSM community and our image ovewall. Would you rather that BDSM went from a pathology to an illegality, or from a pathology to an accepted sexuality? Allowing scamming criminals a free reign online harms us all to some degree.
To be excruciatingly clear: I condemn exploitation in any form, but even more strongly when highly vulnerable sexual submissives are preyed upon. Doesn't preying upon the vulnerable outrage you?
I suggest Collarme.com erase any ad with financial gain sought for.
That is not kink-bashing, now is it.
Kindered2Evil wrote:
quote:
The internet is a wonderful tool, it broadens the horizons and the mind in ways nothing has before it. You can talk with people on the other side of the earth with a click of a mouse...amazing.
It's also brought out the worst of humanity. Stalkers, rapists, murders all now have a way to find lil ole you much easier. Everything about you is posted somewhere, filed away in records etc etc.
Lovely thought hmm..
This point rides alongside several of mine well in that Kindred's point is nicely made that on the internet there is a valuable resource, a global resource, and it is indeed partially polluted by an immoral element and an element that upholds an online-only mythology, both of which work to keep genuinely good people in the BDSM community away from the otherwise useful asset the internet is. Such a waste.
quote:
I do have a power dynamic with my partner that exists at all times, whether or not someone other than us can see it.
It is at least dormant and another dynamic takes over. The dynamic lies in wait for further building upon or active playtime or relationship engagement, but it is no way continual, as is often portrayed online. The eternal 24/7 fantasy, does not exist. There simply are too many parts of life that are non-sexual, non-BDSM, non-fetish oriented, and non-relational to our subs and/or dominants. Only online is this overboard contention held.
quote:
Can we base your sincerity on the assets and income you posted on your profile?
YES!!!
My sincerity comes not from divulging my financial wherewithal to you all online, my sincerity comes not from blithely going along with the astonishing lunacy that collectively expects me to attach my net monetary worth to my sexual preferences and sexual attractiveness. If my financial net worth is tied to anyone's sense of my sexual or personal worth, I will mock that for the unethical shallow garbage that it is, without mercy. For Collarme.com to even have that field in profiles is ridiculous and merely participates in an exploit-a-sub free for all.
quote:
That mindset is your problem. Limiting your definnition of lifestyle to the "playtime" aspect. In that case you are correct. But who would want to strive for such a shallow relationship anyway? If all you seek is sensation then you will never achieve the sensational.
You say:
1) My mindset is the problem (but you wouldn't know it since I've not posted that at the time you wrote this)
2) My definition of the lifestyle is playtime aspect. (but you wouldn't know that since I never posted that by the time you wrote this)
3) You ask why I'd want such a shallow relationship, which you merely (arrogantly) assume to be the case, (without evidence)
4) Because you claim I seek shallowness, I'll never reach the lofty heights I assume you infer are right here online, or in your "24/7 lifestyle"?
And then we have the online mythology encapsulated perfectly in a sugnature:
quote:
Merc (24/7 Owner of a 24/7 slave)
This perfectly epitomises why I have argued this entire series of points. I was criticized with no evidence whatsoever, in several ways, all of which imply I am not a "for real". Meanwhile, the 24/7 myth is upheld and Merc poses as much much more of a "true" BDSMer than I.
This example shows exactly why the vast majority of real world well grounded BDSMers, those this person would infer are "lesser players" do not come online at all. There is an online competition to see who can pose as the most pure, the most true, the most hardcore, and in every way that competition is merely mythological and makes realists feel uncomfortable here online.
The huge point here is that whatever "level" of player I am is not relative to anyone else but my wife and my friends I play with. My "level" is internal, not external. Projecting my own "24/7 lifestyle for real-ness" is hardly is a great sexlife, BDSM life or lovelife. That is just online pretending. I'm a realist. The difference is a refreshing delight to me.
Onceburned writes:
quote:
Now, I do think it is possible for community to form online. And we do have one, of sorts, here in the Collarme message boards. You are totally new here and haven't been around long enough to learn who is who and where they stand in their lives. Observing people over time is a necessary thing to get to know them. If you do not have the patience for investing that time, I think you will continue to find your online experiences very frustrating.
Incorrect, I have read profiles and forum posts here for years. I know this place very well. My criticisms are derived of longstanding observation. My frustration over how the internet is abused, how exploitative elements are free to stalk financial prey among us, how online mythology drives most BDSMers away, and how that all tarnishes the total image of both online and real life BDSM, are long term developed arguments and observations.
Elegant writes:
quote:
Ummm....I am a 24/7 real time slave so there evidently there is such a thing unless I am a figment of an illusion. Slaves have a life. I am busy, hard working and moderatly successful and a slave. They don't have to be separated.
I too am a "24/7" slave, or sub, whatever definition you like (in online terms, which I dislike and shall not use again in describing myself). I prefer to say I am in love and devoted, with 25 years of my life spent living and loving this way. However, I also say no one can live 24/7 anything, except breathing. We have many aspects to life, how about family for one example? A Mom or Dad is always a Mom or Dad, but when they get private time, then they can be whatever sexual roles they enjoy. They also have careers, where they are neither a parent or a BDSM player. They also have friends with whom they are not sexual, nor parental, nor professional. No aspect of life is ubiquitous, but online mythology presses BDSMers to make ridiculous claims that we are indeed so "pure" that all other areas of life are, what, wiped out completely? That is a stunning lack of realistic-ness. It's mythic. It's absurd.
I think you are a dedicated sincere player plumbing your own depths and likely in love as well. Isn't that good enough a "role" to have or be? It earns my respect and I also find that interesting. Saying you, or I, are "24/7, full financial slave, no scat, no kids" is trash compared to who and what you, or I, really are.
Online mythology erodes our value. I encourage you to abandon it. Be who you are, don't fill out a statistic card and don't buy into that online mythology.
Thank you for your thoughts Elegant
Darksparkle writes:
quote:
For myself I am able to live in a 24/7 D/s relationship. I can honestly say this because it goes beyond the physical aspect, as it's not so much about "play" as it is about the total mindset that is constantly instilled.
There are certain aspects that need to be present in able to create this Internal Enslavement mindset, to fuel it and sustain it so the relationship remains balanced, so as not to undermine the mindset.
I both agree and disagree because while the internal BDSM status may indeed be ever-present, it equally cannot be ever-in-effect. What about when your mind is fully occupied with any given complex task? What about real world severe problems that engulf all of conciousness? What about all the times we simply have to focus on non lifestyle everyday things, like a neighbor's conversation or local kids playing while backing up your car?
Just as even religion has to be at times dormant, so too does our sexlife, sex roles, even sexual ideology.
I too am much as you have described, very loyal, very dedicated, as deep as I can figure out how to go in BDSM, but most of my life simply isn't sexual or relational and remotely related to my relationship role and sexual preferences.
Isn't it more realistic to say life is life and when it's not demanding much from us, we get to live and play and relate the BDSM way we want? I enjoy that that is so much less and so much more attainable than the exaggerative nature of online mythology. In this case, then, I would say claiming less is actually living more.
Thanks for your thoughts darksparkle
Tempestspet writes:
quote:
There is a good portion of your post that I agree with. However, I'm 24/7. We do not play all the time. We have lives. But because I am about my Master's business, and he is always in my thoughts concerning the things I do, I call this 24/7 . I don't get breaks, or vacations from this lifestyle. This is simply the way we live.
But...can anyone or anything always be in your thoughts? The human mind cannot even avoid a singular thought, try for just this day to not think of elephants. You can't do it. Even the greatest Zen and/or martial arts masters cannot meditate so exlusively. You admit that you can't play all the time, and imply that you have a non-BDSM non D/s life, and that's, of course, the facts everyone knows are the case. The problem in this regard online is that people are implicitly encouraged to exaggerate themselves and their roles and their levels of play. I think it's more honest and more sincere and far more valuable to say you adore your dominant and your marriage is wonderful, and your play is so good it defies description. You need not leave reality to attain the heights of the impacts of great BDSM and/or D/s. Portraying BDSM as never going back to real life, never being turned off, misunderstands what even happens with BDSM. In BDSM, you get both the relief of departing the daily reality and the refreshed invigoration os returning to it all afresh. Both sides are what makes it healthy. Don't rob yourself of that wonderful interplay by going along with the online "always living BDSM" mythic fantasy.
Thank you for your thoughts Tempestspet
LadyAngelica writes:
quote:
Though 24/7 is not for me, I completely accept that it works for people like Merc & beth, dark~angel and Demon, EmeraldSlave2 and her owner, and many, many more.
This is an example of how online mythology makes others feel inadequate or lesser. I do not accept that anyone lives the mythic 24/7, period. No one ever has, no one ever will. If I am wrong, tell me where to travel to see just one example of this in action that I can see with my own eyes.
24/7 is merely a claim. It has no evidence, you never met anyone who could do that and neither have I. I suspect your real life play is far more intense than anyone's who feels driven to claim they "live" BDSM, when BDSM is a sexuality, and sexuality is just one part of the greater life experience. You can't live 24/7 eating, driving, working, parenting, talking, chatting online, or even religion, though many have tried. In every case I've cited, what is at work is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, not dedication, religious or sexual purity or anything we should respect. Going overboard is simply going overboard. Online mythology in the BDSM community over-values these fantasies and undervalues real life experience and content.
If you have to claim you're 24/7, I think you're anything but that, merely projecting an online image no one is supposed to challenge.
I challenge that.
Thank you too for your thoughts Lady Angelika
kc693 writes:
(before I reply to anything from you, I inform you now your numerous flame-posts will not be replied to)
quote:
I know at present 2 24/7 full time slaves that are definitely 24/7. One is male and has a Mistress, and yes he works, and actually has a very prominent well paying career. In case you try to justify your statement with the fact that he has a job, and therefore is not a valid example
Untrue.
My example of a sub or slave having a job is indeed perfect proof that 24/7 does not exist. No career incorporates the absurd notion that an employee's dominant has powers that trump the boss's authority. That is laughable. Furthermore, the work the sub/slave does requires attention and even thoughts of the dominant are not pissible if simple cognitive focus is to be had, which is universally required to perform any task safely and adequately. Yet further, sexual fantasies are strong thoughts, as are scene remembrances, or considerations of our preferred sexualities. These thoughts would detract from worker productivity and anyone even trying to "live the lifestyle" at work would soon be an unemployed little subbie or dominant. Please do, go ahead and Domme at work. Let me know how that works out for ya. See how absurd "24/7" is?
Furthermore your claims cannot be validated. It's a "I seen a UFO" type of statement. Politeness indicates I should not assail such claims and blithely allow them to pass by without challenge.
I challenge statements like that.
I simply do not believe your claim.
I live what many onliners would call the "24/7" and I adamantly claim it cannot be attained. Not one of my supporting arguments has yet been challenged successfully. "24/7" is myth. Prove otherwise if you can.
quote:
Your statements are remarkably like a poster recently that said he was from the UK , as far as the financial aspects. Amazingly, for the both of you to harp about money, he also put an income on his profile, and yours looks like you filled in zeros until all the spaces were filled up.
That is sacasm. That is open disrespect for the idea that runs amok online that financial considerations are a part of the BDSM sexual universe. Any financial consideration in regards to a sexual preference where large numbers of people are vulnerable, is raw, unethical exploitation. I am surpised that more people do not fill their "financial profiles" all the way up with zeroes. I tried to write in "bazillions" but the field would not accept it.
If you suspect I am from the UK (which I do laugh at guesswork like that) please trace my ISP. I hear that's easy to do. Ask a mod, hire an online detective. When you find my ISP is always the same, my writing style is always the same, my lengthy content is always the same style, my thoroughness is always the same and my ISP says it's in West Virginia, I hope then you'll realise I am just one submissive guy who's got the balls to challenge an online prended satus quo.
No one has ever posted here like I do. What say you to that fact?
quote:
You know what? You have been on this site one whole day,..
Been here roughly three years, off and on.
kc692, you assume a great deal.
quote:
So, lead the movement for change, if you think one needs to be led. The one thing I do agree with you(with just a little twist) is there are a small number that are for real. I just am not sure you are in that group as you say you are. I cannot tell you the number of fakers, wannabes, and general waste of timers that fill up my email box. I have, however, found some that have interested me, and even if our interests and needs don't mesh, I have definitely talked to some and met some that were for real.
I am doing exactly that very thing, and strangely, it's fun and liberating. Let me share a personal aside for a moment with you kc692. In going through all these subtopics welding them into one giant cohesive topic, I also have had to evaluate my own sexual bullshit factor. I have learned that I no longer even want to use the term "24/7" about myself or anyone else. I always clarify when writing about my own sexlife and lovelife that in no way is the "24/7" attainable, but what I am learning is that even saying some think it applies to me is something I am going to abandon. I also have had to think consciously about what degree of my life is D/s and BDSM and where in the scheme of things it lies. My BDSM and D/s lies far below my parenthood concerns, in fact I believe in separation of sexuality and family, to borrow the structure of the constitution for a moment. I put the one away (sexuality) to do the other and I separate my fatherhood completely from my sexuality. I think that is mentally and ethically healthy. Look then at what that does to the much vaunted "24/7". I would not have it if it could exist.
To lead a movement is impossible. If I said I was a "leader", I'd be ignored. Instead, I am supplying strong arguments against several components of online mythology, and I am trying to be nice about it (I do not flame in return, for example). It is my hope that just by mocking "financial profiles" and labelling "financial domination" as a mere low end scam, that BDSMers both on and offline will also challenge these myths and refuse to grant them benign co-existence. Yes, I am saying, asking, calling for BDSMers to stand up and simply refuse to let people claim these myths are their realities. This already happens in most if not all munches, it happens in the real world almost universally, but people like to be polite and not argue, and so many folks let this slide by. I have in the past, but no longer do.
I am "for real" I am me, one ISP, one nickname, one point of view, one large argument bolstered by several smaller arguments. One general topic. One wife, one sexual preference with her, which I do NOT hold up in competition with other people, especially online where all claims are made in a void of possible validation.
I respect "lesser players" who do not "live the lifestyle" (another phrase I am dropping all use of, except to condemn), but rather who have some edge within themselves and seek to go near it or ride it and they then have their Great Release, or completion, or their beloved subspace or endorphin rush or emotional catharsis. So what if they don't live 24/7 and surrender all financial assets? Hell, that exaggerated silly mythology isn't even real! What is real then is lesser play relative to internet claims and exaggerated online mythology. I saw a woman's profile near me geographically, she said (paraphrasing) that she'd never take cum in her ass or mouth, ever, and that she was into light spanking and maybe a blindfold. That's her edge. It's not exaggerated beyond all possibility. It's not absurd or oriented to impress others, as the 24/7 claim always is. Her edge is relative to her and to no one else. She understands BDSM vastly more deeply than anyone I've ever seen with super-BDSM "24/7 pure slavery no limits full financial" claims that common sense shows cannot and do not even exist.
That is realism.
That, I respect. Her, I respect. Her BDSM is real. It need not impress anyone. It need not be pretended about or exaggerated so she or her sexuality can fit in amongst that Grand Players who are found only online where any claim can be made and none can ever be proven.
That, the reality if that girl's edge, I strive for, in my own regards of course, and relative to my wife's preferences and likes of course. If I go anywhere in BDSM, I want it to be as thrilling as I imagine that girl's honestly described edge is. There lies an endless journey into the self....and away from the bullshit of the online competitive mythology and financial raping awaiting all "true subs" here at Collarme.com.
Ok, whew! That was Page One. I'll try, as time permits, to go through each page and reply. I am not going to ignore well spoken points from anyone. It just takes me some time to get to them. Thank you for your patience.
Have a great day and may you find your edge next time you play
< Message edited by realist -- 5/24/2005 10:30:31 AM >
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