unrealistic?

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LadyAngelika -> unrealistic? (5/29/2005 7:24:38 PM)
quote: Why is it that everyone thinks that D/s is 100% sexual? Not everyone thinks it's 100% sexual. Some people do. Some people don't. I happen to be in the part that don't. I think it's human nature. Dominance and submission is the universal balance of power. - LA

realist -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 7:01:01 AM)
quote: Too bad you missed Vegas. You and yours are invited anytime to visit beth & I in LA. We have plenty of room for you. Being a "realist" I sure your disposable income is sufficient to support a trip for you and your wife. I'd invite you to meet us at Folsom or the Folsom Fringe, but that would be in an environment conducive to "playing". I think you may be more comfortable there, but if you want to see 24/7 in practice I think a trip to LA would be appropriate. Thanks for the offer, mighty kind of you [:)] I'm not sure what you mean by "Being a "realist" I sure your disposable income is sufficient to support a trip for you and your wife" My opinions don't have any bearing on my travel capabilities. You allude that I would see 24/7 in action if I went to a festival or event or to LA. I agree I'd see and meet people who are avidly in pursuit of their sexual lives (as am I as well), and I also agree my wife and I'd have a wonderful time. However, festivals and events and people in active pursuit of rewarding sexlives don't prove 24/7 exists any more than Star Trek conventions and fan numbers and devotion levels prove the Klingon language has real world use or that one can live a Star Trek fan lifestyle 24/7. quote: I "pose" as I am. I am not a "true" anything, other than true to myself and the relationship I have with beth. And hey, we met from an on-line ad, we communicated and agreed to meet, she agreed to live under my rules which included not working, she moved from her city to mine. she lives as my slave (my definition of slave) under rules she follows 24/7. Believe it - don't believe it - just don't insult it by believing it doesn't exist. To those who hold 24/7 as real, I suppose my disbelief can seem an insult. I'll try another means to presenting my argument then and see if this is more palatable. You own a car 24/7. The car ownership dynamic never goes away. It's always there even if not active at the moment. You're a professional 24/7, with the same dormant but always present background dynamics. You're a man 24/7, same secondary aspects again. You're intelligent also, same secondary attributes again. You're a homeowner 24/7, again same background elements. You're kind and ethical 24/7 too. I don't know if you're a parent, but I am, and many people are, so I want to add that in here and say for argument's sake for the moment that if you are or were a parent, that'd be 24/7 too, with the same dynamics as all of the above. At any given moment, we are actively the parental aspect but not actively the car owner aspect, actively the professional aspect but not actively the homeowner aspect, and so on. All these 24/7's are there, we can arbitrarily claim them anytime we want, but the moment to moment observable evidence of what we are actively doing indicates that we have multiple aspects to our lives that acheive primacy at any given time. Life has catagories or aspects, or simply... parts, and any claim of 24/7 implies that one has subjugated the universally true multiplicity of life aspects down to one singular theme, which no person's life does have. You can like your sexlife most, look forward to it most, think it most important, but you can't hold it in primacy at all times and really acheive BDSM D/s 24/7. Likewise, all the other non-sexual things you do and are also 24/7, where the dynamic is always there, but is dormant at any given moment, are absurd to claim. I am a 24/7 homowner. Doesn't that just sound stupid to claim? Isn't that lofting real estate ownership up to some whacky level that is obviously just narcissistic egotism on the part of the claimant? It is too bad people think my 24/7 disbelief is an insult. You can see several really mean-spirited posts here aimed at me for thinking as I do. But all I have done is pulled down BDSM D/s 24/7 to the same level as all the other 24/7 claims people could make, and in doing so, I have said that life is vast and wildly arrayed and all the parts exist and are good. Sexuality is a part of life, one of my favorites, I just don't let it overshadow all else that I enjoy. I think that makes me well grounded and a person who pursues all of life.

realist -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 7:13:35 AM)
quote: Not everyone thinks it's 100% sexual. Some people do. Some people don't. I happen to be in the part that don't. I think it's human nature. Dominance and submission is the universal balance of power. I don't see why people have claimed I see BDSM and D/s as strictly sexual. I posted an article that clearly showed I acknowledge the psychological, emotional, neurochemical, self-completing, childhood issue management/rectification aspects, and sense-of-self-justice issues obviously present in the BDSM and D/s effect spectrum. We begin with sexuality, BDSM, D/s, but where we end up varies between us as much as can be reasonably imagined. Hence, the range of preferred kinks and fulfillment experiences is enormous. I challenge anyone to post a definition of BDSM, D/s, or paraphilia that is purely asexual or omits sexuality completely. I, above all else I have said here, think nothing is "100%" or "24/7", "pure" and so forth. I would be the first to acknowledge the far reaching elements of BDSM and D/s. From sexuality comes much else. It is a misunderstanding to claim the sexual and non-sexual aspects of BDSM and D/s are separable. I am critical of the purists who try to loft themselves up beyond the realistic balance that exists between the sexual and other aspects of BDSM and D/s. I disagree that either this is purely non-sexual or is purely sexual. The article and comments I posted earlier prove this beyond any doubt.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 7:18:38 AM)
quote: obviously just narcissistic egotism on the part of the claimant? I agree with all the material and anecdotal references. The festivals, like Folsom, only provide a venue for outward expression for what we feel in our relationship every day. Your focus seems to remain on the physical. When I chat with people who consider a 24/7 relationship the first thing I point out to them is that they can NOT have a 24/7 physical relationship. Their partner must be attractive and interesting to them on a number of different levels; intellectual, emotional, even spiritual, to make the relationship last. It is interesting, you chose not to respond to one key aspect I added later. Maybe you missed it, but it should be something you can relate. Do you consider yourself married 24/7? Why isn't that "narcissistic egotism on the part of the claimant"?

realist -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 7:20:20 AM)
quote: Yeah... but you can't drive a typed description of a car.. you can, however, get an orgasm from typing about sex. haha. No, you got that orgasm from masturbating. I read the Sleeping Beauty trilogy by Anne Rice. Jesus that turned me on. I masturbated. It was great (hope your's was too [:D] ). Did I cyber with Anna then? She provided erotic text, I had an orgasm. Did we share something sexual between us? Were we both participants in my orgasm? Cybersex is not sex, it's at most assisted masturbation. The logic quoted above is twisted a bit, you can't drive a typed description of a car and, equally, typed descriptions of sex can't give you an orgasm. But each can, either enthuse you to buy a certain car or want one just like it, or wish you could have it, and the other can motivate you to break out the dildo or just use your hand and get some of what you were motivated to want, via the text.

realist -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 7:32:12 AM)
quote: What ever happened to tolerance? I thought that this community, both online and otherwise was based in this theory? Your kink is your kink is your kink...at least that was what I was taught...Maybe generations of BDSMer's are wrong? Who cares if a ProDomme comes here? If she's open about it, and the fellows/ladies that come to her know it, who cares? It's valid, it's just different than what you do. The average Pro-Domme rate is $250 per hour. That seems fairly universal insofar as I've read. I've seen ads as high as $1500 for an evening, plus expenses. Please show me any provided service worth that rate. Such gross excess pricing is exploitative, simple as that. If this provided service were in fact derived of a valid fetish, these Pro-Dommes would have a much more important reason to provide these services than financial gain. If such a valid fetish on their part, were present, the financial aspect and rates would vary greatly. Ever see a $25 an hour Pro-Domme? Yeah, me either. I conclude they don't have a secondary reason to provide a valued service then, and since all they want is money, their prices clearly show that sole aim. I tolerate all valid and ethical fetishes, and enjoy several myself. I do not tolerate unethical exploitation of vulnerable people seeking BDSM and D/s. The spectrum of acceptable kink ends abruptly at criminal, dishonest, unethical, and exploitative practices. I disagree that "Your kink is your kink is your kink" and legally and ethically speaking, anything goes.

realist -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 7:57:18 AM)
quote: It is interesting, you chose not to respond to one key aspect I added later. Maybe you missed it, but it should be something you can relate. Do you consider yourself married 24/7? Why isn't that "narcissistic egotism on the part of the claimant"? Actually, I thought that was an excellent point to raise and almost did include reference to it. I thought my examples were very akin to your point, but will now use your example, happily. I do consider myself married 24/7 (so does the law, BTW), just I am also a biker 24/7 and a father 24/7 and professional 24/7 and ethical and kind and intelligent 24/7. But I can't be all that at one time, each must be dormant for the other to operate successfully. When my wife and I are not together, busy working or doing any of dozens of daily activities, just the demand for mental focus forces us to not be thinking of each other for periods of time. When we do think of each other or are together, our love and BDSM and D/s and long history of relationship all emerge once again to primacy. That is the ebb and flow of life is it not? If I say I am married 24/7, doesn't that sound like I am trying to elevate that above all else? Isn't it then a try at imbalancing my array of life aspects to place this above all else? It smacks of trying to make myself a purist, more true to my married aspect than any other aspect of life. My children would not be too enamored with their relegation down to second place, or less. If I make one 24/7 claim, I immediately must make several more to maintain balance and equal importance in crucial life aspects. Omitting all is easier and more accurate. Also, if one claims anything 24/7, that strongly implies anything else is not eternally ubiquitous in their life. 24/7 is a singular claim. Having a dozen 24/7 claims is pointless. We then have to have mutliple primacies, all dormant at times, none above all else, none 24/7. I have to be a father, husband, worker, organizer, financial manager, friend, biker, homeowner, real estate developer and I have to do every one of those aspects my very best. Top priority....at any given time. BDSM and D/s are just one of these aspects, one that I enjoy immensely, one I want a lot more than these other good and equally important pursuits will allow me to have. So what I do is bust my ass and get all those other things done and handled well and when all my other 24/7's are put away, finally, after much effort, I can have my other 24/7, BDSM and my D/s relationship. I work very hard to create more "everything else is done" time so I can have my sexuality aspect. The entire statement is much clearer and more reasonable when I drop all use of "24/7" and just say life aspects, dormant and active. I hope that's more palatable.

realist -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 8:28:45 AM)
quote: I'd also suggest that you have your cause and effect backward. The internet has made the reality of thousands of people living and seeking 24/7 power exchanges as a passion VISIBLE rather then simply spawning what you claim is fantasy. Sure there are many more wannabees and fakers also made visible by the phenomenon but your simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater as so many people do. This is a good point. My complaint (sadly, one of several) is that the voices of the absurd, the "superior players", and online mythology adherents are over-represented online, yielding an atmosphere that most BDSM real world "lesser players" do not want to immerse themselves in and would not get much good out of if they did participate here. Compare the numbers of exploitation seekers, financial scammers, ridiculous expecters of selfless relocation and financial sacrifice and expecters of total 24/7 slaving devotion to the numbers of "lesser players" here at Collarme.com who just want some spice in their sexlives, or want special fetish play, or want more play than they have or are new or young or scared of their own desires or want edge play or wild role play. Compare who's voices are creating the trends and atmosphere online. quote: The simpler truth to be explored here is that a 24/7 power exchange is just not something YOU want or that YOU would ever be interested in. However you seem to want to cry foul that other people do live that way for reasons unknown to me. I've explained before that many who enjoy the lofty mythic mantle of "24/7" would say I have that very thing and I claim it doesn't and cannot exist, unless you want to have a dozen 24/7's all primary all at once, which is semantic and arbitrary. Go ahead, make any 24/7 claim. See how that holds up when you're doing some other equally claimable 24/7 thing. 24/7 implies a singular 24/7 item. No one has a life that free off all other neccesity we can equally call 24/7 too. quote: In my experience however, those who are the harshest judges of their fellows within this lifestyle are generally dealing with other issues. In my experience the worst critics of wiiwd are those of us who want more then what we have . You greatly misunderstand me. People online all too often claim far-reaching things, like singular 24/7 totality or infinite asexual D/s or BDSM purity, meanwhile, the vast majority of BDSMers don't seek lofty mythic perfections of BDSM and D/s ideals, and do they feel welcome amid that sort of atmosphere? Are they here? Out of those tens of millions, Collarme has less than a tenth of a percentage. Claiming the impossibly infinite excludes the vast majority who don't need to go so far to have electrifyingly good sexlives. I am critical of excess online, of collective mythology not even realistic in a lenient literary sense, I am critical of the presence of exploitative elements and ridiculous expectations present online but not at munches I attend. Is, for example a "true sub" a person who is free to move to your location, give up all financial assets, live as the dom says, serve selflessly in chastity, spoil, pamper, and adorn the dom with daily gifts on an endless shopping and footrub spree? That's ridiculous, not an ideal archtype possible for every player if one "just believes". I've seen tons of absurd, really laughable ads like that, and it's becoming it's own much carried away online mythology, almost like a religion. All you have to do is believe and the rich generous selfless sub of your dreams is only an email away. Is that not bullshit? Look how many ads are exactly seeking that!!! And what about these people seeking every cent you have? Is that not exploitation? Then, I hardly am one of "those who are the harshest judges of their fellows within this lifestyle are generally dealing with other issues". I am critisizing online mythology both for it's content and effects and I am critisizing moral offense widely accepted online and laughed at in the real world at munches and face to face meetings. I met a Domme yesterday. I wager she was more impressed by the fact that I have a good life that I'd never give up than if I asked to live in a cage in her basement forever and ever in 24/7 BDSM "purity". Online, there is much to be critical of. That does not make me someone with "issues".

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 8:30:43 AM)
250 an hour seems low from my experience, that's about the range for ordinry escorting/prostitution. Many other services costs that much and more- including hairstyling. Part of why pro's are so high is because of the higher risk factor, a common need for confidentiality, cover other costs- toys, space, etc. As with anything, if you think the service provider is charging too much, shop around.

AAkasha -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 8:58:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: realist quote: Not everyone thinks it's 100% sexual. Some people do. Some people don't. I happen to be in the part that don't. I think it's human nature. Dominance and submission is the universal balance of power. I don't see why people have claimed I see BDSM and D/s as strictly sexual. I posted an article that clearly showed I acknowledge the psychological, emotional, neurochemical, self-completing, childhood issue management/rectification aspects, and sense-of-self-justice issues obviously present in the BDSM and D/s effect spectrum. We begin with sexuality, BDSM, D/s, but where we end up varies between us as much as can be reasonably imagined. Hence, the range of preferred kinks and fulfillment experiences is enormous. I challenge anyone to post a definition of BDSM, D/s, or paraphilia that is purely asexual or omits sexuality completely. I, above all else I have said here, think nothing is "100%" or "24/7", "pure" and so forth. I would be the first to acknowledge the far reaching elements of BDSM and D/s. From sexuality comes much else. It is a misunderstanding to claim the sexual and non-sexual aspects of BDSM and D/s are separable. I am critical of the purists who try to loft themselves up beyond the realistic balance that exists between the sexual and other aspects of BDSM and D/s. I disagree that either this is purely non-sexual or is purely sexual. The article and comments I posted earlier prove this beyond any doubt. There was a guy posting here recently who was asexual. Part of his criteria for finding a partner (male or female) was that no sex could be involved of any kind. I believe his doctors even defined him as clinically asexual or at least gave him assurance that it was not abnormal. Perhaps someone can find a link to the thread. Point being, yes, people can be purely asexual and into bdsm. Akasha

AAkasha -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 9:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 250 an hour seems low from my experience, that's about the range for ordinry escorting/prostitution. Many other services costs that much and more- including hairstyling. Part of why pro's are so high is because of the higher risk factor, a common need for confidentiality, cover other costs- toys, space, etc. As with anything, if you think the service provider is charging too much, shop around. He also clearly does not understand the overhead and cost of doing business. Especially being self employed. While a few top tier pro femdoms are making a nice living, the bulk of them aren't rolling in money. Many have second jobs. Akasha

perverseangelic -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 9:21:34 AM)
Just because one element of the personality is dormant, does that mean it's gone away? I would say no. I am employeed 24/7. I don't work all the time. I'm still an employee. That's my take on power dynamics. Not expressed. Still there. 24/7, then, makes perfect sense.

kc692 -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 11:40:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha quote: ORIGINAL: realist quote: Not everyone thinks it's 100% sexual. Some people do. Some people don't. I happen to be in the part that don't. I think it's human nature. Dominance and submission is the universal balance of power. I don't see why people have claimed I see BDSM and D/s as strictly sexual. I posted an article that clearly showed I acknowledge the psychological, emotional, neurochemical, self-completing, childhood issue management/rectification aspects, and sense-of-self-justice issues obviously present in the BDSM and D/s effect spectrum. We begin with sexuality, BDSM, D/s, but where we end up varies between us as much as can be reasonably imagined. Hence, the range of preferred kinks and fulfillment experiences is enormous. I challenge anyone to post a definition of BDSM, D/s, or paraphilia that is purely asexual or omits sexuality completely. I, above all else I have said here, think nothing is "100%" or "24/7", "pure" and so forth. I would be the first to acknowledge the far reaching elements of BDSM and D/s. From sexuality comes much else. It is a misunderstanding to claim the sexual and non-sexual aspects of BDSM and D/s are separable. I am critical of the purists who try to loft themselves up beyond the realistic balance that exists between the sexual and other aspects of BDSM and D/s. I disagree that either this is purely non-sexual or is purely sexual. The article and comments I posted earlier prove this beyond any doubt. There was a guy posting here recently who was asexual. Part of his criteria for finding a partner (male or female) was that no sex could be involved of any kind. I believe his doctors even defined him as clinically asexual or at least gave him assurance that it was not abnormal. Perhaps someone can find a link to the thread. Point being, yes, people can be purely asexual and into bdsm. Akasha Here you go Aakasha: http://www.collarme.com/forum/Extremely_weird_question%25%25%25/m_97220/tm.htm on general bdsm 05/16/05 (links seem to maybe be part of the bugs being worked out, not sure) and on ask a mistress Searching question. - 4/30/2005 12:07:12 PM (For some reason I could not copy and input that link)

Mercnbeth -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 12:25:42 PM)
quote: If I say I am married 24/7, doesn't that sound like I am trying to elevate that above all else? Why can't it be elevated above all else? When are you not married? Why can't you function as a father, biker, employee, etc., and still be married? Of course you are. You're a married biker, married employee, married parent to your children. Do you need to make the married part "dormant" while you function as any of these other things? In order to function as one of these things you need to "omit" the other? I don't find it necessary to omit any to function as the other. Prior to beth, I was still dominant. I had a dominant personality. I wasn't a dominant part time. It was part of everything I did. It was why I was so confident to find someone like beth who was just as confident and who interjected her submissive personality into every part of her life; as a mother, a daughter, an employee, etc. Together we make a Master/slave relationship. Soon our relationship will also be recognized and able to use the label husband/wife. When that happens she will be a slave wife, slave mother, slave whatever; as I will be husband master, etc. The Master and slave "elevation" is important. It is the recognized difference between submissive and dominant. It indicates possession and being possessed. Once achieved it is important to elevate it above all other labels. To us, it is that important. It deserves elevation. Why would you not want that in your position? Why wouldn't everyone what that to be the cornerstone of their relationship? Why wouldn't you want your partner to be the most important "elevated" aspect of your life? Children go away, they grow up with spouse and lives of their own. You would hope for their happiness, they put their spouse as their "24/7" elevated priority. Jobs, and other responsibilities change. Call it 24/7 or call it anything you like; but the goal in any relationship should be elevated as a priority. Fortunately for me - for US - it is. I couldn't care less what you want to label it, or if you want to deny it's existence. It IS.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 12:58:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: realist The average Pro-Domme rate is $250 per hour. That seems fairly universal insofar as I've read. I've seen ads as high as $1500 for an evening, plus expenses. Please show me any provided service worth that rate. quote: 250 an hour seems low from my experience, that's about the range for ordinry escorting/prostitution. Many other services costs that much and more- including hairstyling. quote: He also clearly does not understand the overhead and cost of doing business. Especially being self employed. $250 hour is average, and not out of line at all as far as I'm concerned. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't. It is supply and demand, as well overhead, risk, expertise. I personally have way more demand than I am willing to supply. But you want to be shown any provided service that is worth that much? How about your attorney, your surgeon, your CPA, your business consultant? What is your hourly value considering that, at age 45, you claim to have a 1 billion dollar a year income and a 1 billion dollar net worth? realist, you may have your opinion all you want, provided you are enough of a realist to realize that it is your opinion. It is not gospel, and you should also respect others' opinions and the explanations of their own beliefs they have put forth. These people have put their belief systems into direct action. They are living it. Others aspire to the same or a similar style of relationship. Don't try to split hairs and tell them they aren't and they can't because you say this or you say that. Stop beating a dead horse and show a little respect. No matter what A/anyone posts on this board, you have to explain over and over again why they are wrong. your silly logic is beginning to give Me a headache. you make no points and have gained no headway with Me. All I see is a man who has to be right, no matter what. That's the fastest way to lose My respect. Of course it's hard to lose something you never gained in the first place.

AAkasha -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 1:26:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: realist quote: What ever happened to tolerance? I thought that this community, both online and otherwise was based in this theory? Your kink is your kink is your kink...at least that was what I was taught...Maybe generations of BDSMer's are wrong? Who cares if a ProDomme comes here? If she's open about it, and the fellows/ladies that come to her know it, who cares? It's valid, it's just different than what you do. The average Pro-Domme rate is $250 per hour. That seems fairly universal insofar as I've read. I've seen ads as high as $1500 for an evening, plus expenses. Please show me any provided service worth that rate. Such gross excess pricing is exploitative, simple as that. If this provided service were in fact derived of a valid fetish, these Pro-Dommes would have a much more important reason to provide these services than financial gain. If such a valid fetish on their part, were present, the financial aspect and rates would vary greatly. Ever see a $25 an hour Pro-Domme? Yeah, me either. I conclude they don't have a secondary reason to provide a valued service then, and since all they want is money, their prices clearly show that sole aim. I tolerate all valid and ethical fetishes, and enjoy several myself. I do not tolerate unethical exploitation of vulnerable people seeking BDSM and D/s. The spectrum of acceptable kink ends abruptly at criminal, dishonest, unethical, and exploitative practices. I disagree that "Your kink is your kink is your kink" and legally and ethically speaking, anything goes. A few other things come to mind about how ridiculous your logic is here. So you think pro femdoms are only in it for financial gain? (some may be, but I believe they are the minority and get out of the business fast). Do you think it is impossible to enjoy something, and charge money for it? I enjoy what I do for a living, and I work in a client-based business. If I were not making any money, I'd still be doing the same type of things for pleasure (writing, primarily) or as a volunteer. The fact that I enjoy writing, but I also make money writing, does that mean I am expoiting others? Should I only charge $25 an hour, because I actually enjoy what I do? Or should I charge the fair market value for my skills and to cover my overhead? My hourly rate is based on my level of experience and skill set. I love what I do, but I'm sure as hell not going to do it for $25 an hour. And for the pro femdoms that are also active in their local communities, attending events with personal partners and in an active BDSM relationship in addition to their business -- are you suggesting they "fake" all of that just to keep up an image? It seems like an awful lot of work, creating an entire life as a lie, just to fool potential customers. Akasha

AAkasha -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 1:32:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold quote: ORIGINAL: realist The average Pro-Domme rate is $250 per hour. That seems fairly universal insofar as I've read. I've seen ads as high as $1500 for an evening, plus expenses. Please show me any provided service worth that rate. quote: 250 an hour seems low from my experience, that's about the range for ordinry escorting/prostitution. Many other services costs that much and more- including hairstyling. quote: He also clearly does not understand the overhead and cost of doing business. Especially being self employed. $250 hour is average, and not out of line at all as far as I'm concerned. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't. It is supply and demand, as well overhead, risk, expertise. I personally have way more demand than I am willing to supply. But you want to be shown any provided service that is worth that much? How about your attorney, your surgeon, your CPA, your business consultant? What is your hourly value considering that, at age 45, you claim to have a 1 billion dollar a year income and a 1 billion dollar net worth? realist, you may have your opinion all you want, provided you are enough of a realist to realize that it is your opinion. It is not gospel, and you should also respect others' opinions and the explanations of their own beliefs they have put forth. These people have put their belief systems into direct action. They are living it. Others aspire to the same or a similar style of relationship. Don't try to split hairs and tell them they aren't and they can't because you say this or you say that. Stop beating a dead horse and show a little respect. No matter what A/anyone posts on this board, you have to explain over and over again why they are wrong. your silly logic is beginning to give Me a headache. you make no points and have gained no headway with Me. All I see is a man who has to be right, no matter what. That's the fastest way to lose My respect. Of course it's hard to lose something you never gained in the first place. I am also starting to doubt his experience in the business world or in general. Finding a professional that charges more than $250/hr for their expertise? Doesn't even have to be an attorney: Source: Rocky Mountain News, March 15, 2005 "The University of Colorado's governing Board of Regents has retained a $350-per-hour public relations consultant," to deal "with the fallout from a football recruiting scandal and the ongoing saga surrounding controversial professor Ward Churchill." The consultant is Christopher Simpson, a former Washington Times reporter and press secretary to Senator Strom Thurmond. Simpson said he will work to get attention "back focused on the tremendous attributes" of the university. The new hire is in addition to "a contract with local public relations firm GBSM," and "the combined salaries of several people on the university's staff who handle public relations," including two associate vice-presidents paid $150,000 each. " Akasha

MsSilvie -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 5:28:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: If I say I am married 24/7, doesn't that sound like I am trying to elevate that above all else? Why can't it be elevated above all else? When are you not married? Why can't you function as a father, biker, employee, etc., and still be married? Of course you are. You're a married biker, married employee, married parent to your children. Do you need to make the married part "dormant" while you function as any of these other things? In order to function as one of these things you need to "omit" the other? I don't find it necessary to omit any to function as the other. Prior to beth, I was still dominant. I had a dominant personality. I wasn't a dominant part time. It was part of everything I did. It was why I was so confident to find someone like beth who was just as confident and who interjected her submissive personality into every part of her life; as a mother, a daughter, an employee, etc. Together we make a Master/slave relationship. Soon our relationship will also be recognized and able to use the label husband/wife. When that happens she will be a slave wife, slave mother, slave whatever; as I will be husband master, etc. The Master and slave "elevation" is important. It is the recognized difference between submissive and dominant. It indicates possession and being possessed. Once achieved it is important to elevate it above all other labels. To us, it is that important. It deserves elevation. Why would you not want that in your position? Why wouldn't everyone what that to be the cornerstone of their relationship? Why wouldn't you want your partner to be the most important "elevated" aspect of your life? Children go away, they grow up with spouse and lives of their own. You would hope for their happiness, they put their spouse as their "24/7" elevated priority. Jobs, and other responsibilities change. Call it 24/7 or call it anything you like; but the goal in any relationship should be elevated as a priority. Fortunately for me - for US - it is. I couldn't care less what you want to label it, or if you want to deny it's existence. It IS. I don't think anyone is saying your primary relationship(s) should not be important. People don't always mean the same thing when they say "24/7". If you want to look at it literally, then no, I don't think 24/7 is possible or desirable. If you are focused on dominance and submission every moment of your life, awake or asleep, you're obsessed and unbalanced. The problem for me is I see people using "24/7" as some kind of buzzword that they use to identify themselves as elitists, superior, somehow better than others. And that is a load of crap. You live with your partner and you have a D/s element to your relationship? Cool. You don't role play with each other, you have a dominant personality, and your partner is overall submissive? Fine. Have a need to make yourself feel better by looking down your nose at people who don't call themselves 24/7? Something is wrong there, maybe the claimant is trying to compensate for something?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 5:45:49 PM)
quote: Have a need to make yourself feel better by looking down your nose at people who don't call themselves 24/7? Ms Silvie, Absolutely not. By no means did I want to come off as superior. Quite the contrary, I describe myself as fortunate to have found someone compatible. I hope that regardless of the relationship anyone happens to be in that it is the most important thing to them. In my mind it should be always considered. I think you should consider a spouse, children, and everything else you deem important enough to identify, when you have to make life decisions. I believe that it helps ascertain what is REALLY important when you make a decision based on an outside factor. To us that outside factor is us. That's what makes it "elevated". Realist didn't believe anything in his life should be elevated to that level. I disagree. I think you should have a goal in your relationship to have it elevated. Call it marriage, call it 25/7 lifestyle, call it anything you like. I don't believe it is a superior to have that as a goal or to make life decisions on the basis of having that aspect of my life elevated and always considered. I question why anyone wouldn't want that in a partner, 24/7.

MsSilvie -> RE: Reality Check (5/30/2005 5:56:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha quote: ORIGINAL: realist quote: What ever happened to tolerance? I thought that this community, both online and otherwise was based in this theory? Your kink is your kink is your kink...at least that was what I was taught...Maybe generations of BDSMer's are wrong? Who cares if a ProDomme comes here? If she's open about it, and the fellows/ladies that come to her know it, who cares? It's valid, it's just different than what you do. The average Pro-Domme rate is $250 per hour. That seems fairly universal insofar as I've read. I've seen ads as high as $1500 for an evening, plus expenses. Please show me any provided service worth that rate. Such gross excess pricing is exploitative, simple as that. If this provided service were in fact derived of a valid fetish, these Pro-Dommes would have a much more important reason to provide these services than financial gain. If such a valid fetish on their part, were present, the financial aspect and rates would vary greatly. Ever see a $25 an hour Pro-Domme? Yeah, me either. I conclude they don't have a secondary reason to provide a valued service then, and since all they want is money, their prices clearly show that sole aim. I tolerate all valid and ethical fetishes, and enjoy several myself. I do not tolerate unethical exploitation of vulnerable people seeking BDSM and D/s. The spectrum of acceptable kink ends abruptly at criminal, dishonest, unethical, and exploitative practices. I disagree that "Your kink is your kink is your kink" and legally and ethically speaking, anything goes. A few other things come to mind about how ridiculous your logic is here. So you think pro femdoms are only in it for financial gain? (some may be, but I believe they are the minority and get out of the business fast). Do you think it is impossible to enjoy something, and charge money for it? I enjoy what I do for a living, and I work in a client-based business. If I were not making any money, I'd still be doing the same type of things for pleasure (writing, primarily) or as a volunteer. The fact that I enjoy writing, but I also make money writing, does that mean I am expoiting others? Should I only charge $25 an hour, because I actually enjoy what I do? Or should I charge the fair market value for my skills and to cover my overhead? My hourly rate is based on my level of experience and skill set. I love what I do, but I'm sure as hell not going to do it for $25 an hour. And for the pro femdoms that are also active in their local communities, attending events with personal partners and in an active BDSM relationship in addition to their business -- are you suggesting they "fake" all of that just to keep up an image? It seems like an awful lot of work, creating an entire life as a lie, just to fool potential customers. Akasha Actual professional dominants are few and far between. I believe what the OP is referring to is a when Suzy TrailerTrash, who bought a flogger last week, is now calling herself a ProDomme and demanding $250 /hr to prance around and pose and act like she has the world's worst case of PMS. No one is suggesting you do something only for the money. However, I think the successful pros understand that it IS a business and you are there to fulfill the needs/wants/fantasies of your client. It's possible independently wealthy artists can work only to please themselves. The vast majority of people don't have that option. You work to meet your client’s expectations. Or, your business fails. And that just sits wrong with most Mistress Suzy TrailerTrashs that I am aware of. They think it should be all about them, and getting both their needs and wallets filled. If I were consulting a male sub about what to look for in a proDomme? I would expect that she has some primo dungeon space with tools and furniture, a good number of techniques that she has mastered and a better than passing understanding of psychology. Again, not nearly as many professionals out there as you may think.

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