quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: realist

quote:

What ever happened to tolerance? I thought that this community, both online and otherwise was based in this theory? Your kink is your kink is your kink...at least that was what I was taught...Maybe generations of BDSMer's are wrong?

Who cares if a ProDomme comes here? If she's open about it, and the fellows/ladies that come to her know it, who cares? It's valid, it's just different than what you do.

The average Pro-Domme rate is $250 per hour. That seems fairly universal insofar as I've read. I've seen ads as high as $1500 for an evening, plus expenses.

Please show me any provided service worth that rate.

Such gross excess pricing is exploitative, simple as that. If this provided service were in fact derived of a valid fetish, these Pro-Dommes would have a much more important reason to provide these services than financial gain. If such a valid fetish on their part, were present, the financial aspect and rates would vary greatly. Ever see a $25 an hour Pro-Domme? Yeah, me either. I conclude they don't have a secondary reason to provide a valued service then, and since all they want is money, their prices clearly show that sole aim.

I tolerate all valid and ethical fetishes, and enjoy several myself. I do not tolerate unethical exploitation of vulnerable people seeking BDSM and D/s.

The spectrum of acceptable kink ends abruptly at criminal, dishonest, unethical, and exploitative practices.

I disagree that "Your kink is your kink is your kink" and legally and ethically speaking, anything goes.

A few other things come to mind about how ridiculous your logic is here.

So you think pro femdoms are only in it for financial gain? (some may be, but I believe they are the minority and get out of the business fast). Do you think it is impossible to enjoy something, and charge money for it?

I enjoy what I do for a living, and I work in a client-based business. If I were not making any money, I'd still be doing the same type of things for pleasure (writing, primarily) or as a volunteer. The fact that I enjoy writing, but I also make money writing, does that mean I am expoiting others?

Should I only charge $25 an hour, because I actually enjoy what I do? Or should I charge the *fair market value* for my skills and to cover my overhead? My hourly rate is based on my level of experience and skill set. I love what I do, but I'm sure as hell not going to do it for $25 an hour.

And for the pro femdoms that are also active in their local communities, attending events with personal partners and in an active BDSM relationship in addition to their business -- are you suggesting they "fake" all of that just to keep up an image? It seems like an awful lot of work, creating an entire life as a lie, just to fool potential customers.

Akasha

Actual professional dominants are few and far between. I believe what the OP is referring to is a when Suzy TrailerTrash, who bought a flogger last week, is now calling herself a ProDomme and demanding $250 /hr to prance around and pose and act like she has the world's worst case of PMS.

No one is suggesting you do something only for the money. However, I think the successful pros understand that it IS a business and you are there to fulfill the needs/wants/fantasies of your client. It's possible independently wealthy artists can work only to please themselves. The vast majority of people don't have that option. You work to meet your client’s expectations. Or, your business fails.

And that just sits wrong with most Mistress Suzy TrailerTrashs that I am aware of. They think it should be all about them, and getting both their needs and wallets filled.

If I were consulting a male sub about what to look for in a proDomme? I would expect that she has some primo dungeon space with tools and furniture, a good number of techniques that she has mastered and a better than passing understanding of psychology. Again, not nearly as many professionals out there as you may think.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Have a need to make yourself feel better by looking down your nose at people who don't call themselves 24/7?

Ms Silvie,
Absolutely not. By no means did I want to come off as superior. Quite the contrary, I describe myself as fortunate to have found someone compatible. I hope that regardless of the relationship anyone happens to be in that it is the most important thing to them. In my mind it should be always considered.
I think you should consider a spouse, children, and everything else you deem important enough to identify, when you have to make life decisions. I believe that it helps ascertain what is REALLY important when you make a decision based on an outside factor. To us that outside factor is us. That's what makes it "elevated".
Realist didn't believe anything in his life should be elevated to that level. I disagree. I think you should have a goal in your relationship to have it elevated. Call it marriage, call it 25/7 lifestyle, call it anything you like. I don't believe it is a superior to have that as a goal or to make life decisions on the basis of having that aspect of my life elevated and always considered.
I question why anyone wouldn't want that in a partner, 24/7.

quote:

That said, I DO see this with many people. You can see it in any lifestyle. I'm not just a audiophile... I've got the biggest, baddest most powerful sound system in creation. I designed it all myself, even my closets have better fidelity than your living room! I'm not just a bdsm enthusiast.... I'm the biggest baddest, most hard core 24/7 bdsmer you'll ever meet, much more legit than you are! Why, I even have black leather bath towels!

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Mistress Suzy Trailer Trash gets no repeat business, first of all -- so the chances of making a living are even more slim.
And aren't men who are willing to shell out $250/hr willing to do any research at all? Would they hire a marketing consultant, for example, in the "high end" bracket -- and not ask to see a portfolio of past work? A submissive can inquire about dungeon space, years in the business, equipment available, etc. He can change his mind once he drives up, and sees it's a "trailer". If he walks in and she is standing there in a leather skirt with one whip, he can turn around and walk away.

The professionals that have a clientele, a playspace, a reputation and gear are right in charging $250/hr or whatever the market will bear. If subs don't want to pay they won't.

The "scammers" you talk about -- charging $250 a session -- jump in and out of the business fast. They just want to make some quick cash and figure it's a way to do it. But that discredits all the professional out there that have done it for years and make a living off of it.

Why are we protecting men who make stupid mistakes, like sending cash to femdoms online as a "tribute" to talk to them (who do it, then complain later)? There is a sucker born every minute, and ALL areas of business are taking advantage of suckers right now on the net. Not just BDSM people.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

It costs NOTHING for The Queen of the Trailer Park to be a proDomme. She can schedule an hour or two in between what ever else she does for money. And it costs nothing for her to sit around on the computer and brag herself up as a "true lifestyler".

As far as male subs, why not keep blaiming the victim, you say? I personally am not sure how women can get into a position where they are raped. There are plenty of sites regarding personal safety and how to minimize your risks. So, if a woman is raped it is her fault? I'm sorry, that seems to be a m/f thing. Females have a bad experience... poor darling, mean people taking advantage of her, let's warn everyone in we know about him so it never happens again.

Male has a bad experience... serves 'em right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

Not really. Become victimized by anything, and chances are, there is someone there to demonize you for being the victim. Because, to them, it's your fault. Get scammed in the stock market? You should have done your research better. Buy a lemon of a car? You should have known that that engine is prone to valve problems. Some one promised to move in with you and wasted your time and energy? Your problem entirely, you should have seen that coming.

You can see why I don't buy that line of thought one bit. You can always look back and say missed things that, in retrospect, told you something may not have been all above the board. Do you deserve everything you got as a result? No, not at all. The people perpetuating the fraud are the ones responsible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

That said, I DO see this with many people. You can see it in any lifestyle. I'm not just a audiophile... I've got the biggest, baddest most powerful sound system in creation. I designed it all myself, even my closets have better fidelity than your living room! I'm not just a bdsm enthusiast.... I'm the biggest baddest, most hard core 24/7 bdsmer you'll ever meet, much more legit than you are! Why, I even have black leather bath towels!

Agree 100%! I know that people are more hardcore than us, more formal than us, more everything. Perfection is a goal to strive but doing so you must know that ultimately it is unobtainable. But striving for, or desiring anything less dooms you to be satisfied with less.

I believe that part of that striving is including your relationship into any decision that comes to you. In that regard it is not a matter of degrees. It is here that I disagree with the OP saying that a relationship as a married spouse or as either half of a lifestyle M/s relationship shouldn't be elevated to priority status. I say is must. Not having achieved or representing perfection, but because it is a desired goal. The semantics of 24/7 label aside, I'll ask again - why would anyone have anything less as a goal for any real time, live in relationship?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

Not really. Become victimized by anything, and chances are, there is someone there to demonize you for being the victim. Because, to them, it's your fault. Get scammed in the stock market? You should have done your research better. Buy a lemon of a car? You should have known that that engine is prone to valve problems. Some one promised to move in with you and wasted your time and energy? Your problem entirely, you should have seen that coming.

You can see why I don't buy that line of thought one bit. You can always look back and say missed things that, in retrospect, told you something may not have been all above the board. Do you deserve everything you got as a result? No, not at all. The people perpetuating the fraud are the ones responsible.

You compared a violent crime to a non-violent crime - they are nothing alike. Then when challenged about your comparison, suddenly all of your examples are non-violent in nature.

You also seem to have missed that I did not dispute the fact that it is the scammer and not the scammee at fault - my problem with your post is that you compared two entirely different things and expected people to buy it as a justified comparison.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I view them differently because I had someone break into my dorm room while I was asleep - I had the windows closed and locked, I had the door shut and locked - what the hell did I do wrong? Did I not use common sense? You are comparing what I went through to someone who was taken advantage of because he was thinking with his dick instead of his brain. I resent the comparison because it is TOTALLY invalid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I'm stating that your comparison was invalid because you compared two entirely different things - violent crimes do not compare to non-violent crimes. You are still trying to claim that they are comparable and they AREN'T. When I stated my position, you pulled possible misjudgements/lack of foresight/etc into the discussion and I'm showing you that there are situations of rape where there was no misjudgement or lack of foresight; with rape, walking alone in a dark alley = lack of foresight, being asleep in a locked dorm room does not = lack of foresight; with getting scammed, sending money to someone that you don't know at all = lack of foresight pretty much every time. The two are not comparable. I don't care why you picked rape, it was a very poor and insensitive choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

Forget it, you are still missing my point (which never was that "blaming the victim" is appropriate for any crime) and you obviously will never get why your comparison was so incredibly insensitive to some people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

That said, I DO see this with many people. You can see it in any lifestyle. I'm not just a audiophile... I've got the biggest, baddest most powerful sound system in creation. I designed it all myself, even my closets have better fidelity than your living room! I'm not just a bdsm enthusiast.... I'm the biggest baddest, most hard core 24/7 bdsmer you'll ever meet, much more legit than you are! Why, I even have black leather bath towels!

Agree 100%! I know that people are more hardcore than us, more formal than us, more everything. Perfection is a goal to strive but doing so you must know that ultimately it is unobtainable. But striving for, or desiring anything less dooms you to be satisfied with less.

I believe that part of that striving is including your relationship into any decision that comes to you. In that regard it is not a matter of degrees. It is here that I disagree with the OP saying that a relationship as a married spouse or as either half of a lifestyle M/s relationship shouldn't be elevated to priority status. I say is must. Not having achieved or representing perfection, but because it is a desired goal. The semantics of 24/7 label aside, I'll ask again - why would anyone have anything less as a goal for any real time, live in relationship?

I agree with your points also. The issue to me has never been wanting to improve what you have or what you do. That is part of what people should do. The problem is when a person try to elevate your situation and give it a false validity by giving it some kind of label that to me, really doesn't mean much. It's the whole "edgier, leaner, more valid than THOU" that I take exception to. I don't see that the OP indicated that a relationship as a married spouse or as either half of a lifestyle M/s relationship shouldn't be elevated to priority status. Just that "24/7" is a sort of meaningless term. No one talks about a 24/7 marriage, 24/7 kids or a 24/7 cat or dog. It's a term that many people use to try to give themselves a falsely inflated status.

quote:

even the majority. In fantasyland, people give up their lives,

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

You are comparing what I went through to someone who was taken advantage of because he was thinking with his dick instead of his brain. I resent the comparison because it is TOTALLY invalid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

Forget it, you are still missing my point (which never was that "blaming the victim" is appropriate for any crime) and you obviously will never get why your comparison was so incredibly insensitive to some people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSilvie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

That said, I DO see this with many people. You can see it in any lifestyle. I'm not just a audiophile... I've got the biggest, baddest most powerful sound system in creation. I designed it all myself, even my closets have better fidelity than your living room! I'm not just a bdsm enthusiast.... I'm the biggest baddest, most hard core 24/7 bdsmer you'll ever meet, much more legit than you are! Why, I even have black leather bath towels!

Agree 100%! I know that people are more hardcore than us, more formal than us, more everything. Perfection is a goal to strive but doing so you must know that ultimately it is unobtainable. But striving for, or desiring anything less dooms you to be satisfied with less.

I believe that part of that striving is including your relationship into any decision that comes to you. In that regard it is not a matter of degrees. It is here that I disagree with the OP saying that a relationship as a married spouse or as either half of a lifestyle M/s relationship shouldn't be elevated to priority status. I say is must. Not having achieved or representing perfection, but because it is a desired goal. The semantics of 24/7 label aside, I'll ask again - why would anyone have anything less as a goal for any real time, live in relationship?

I agree with your points also. The issue to me has never been wanting to improve what you have or what you do. That is part of what people should do. The problem is when a person try to elevate your situation and give it a false validity by giving it some kind of label that to me, really doesn't mean much. It's the whole "edgier, leaner, more valid than THOU" that I take exception to. I don't see that the OP indicated that a relationship as a married spouse or as either half of a lifestyle M/s relationship shouldn't be elevated to priority status. Just that "24/7" is a sort of meaningless term. No one talks about a 24/7 marriage, 24/7 kids or a 24/7 cat or dog. It's a term that many people use to try to give themselves a falsely inflated status.

Someone cannot be actively grandstanding (giving themselves a falsely inflated status) without TWO people participaing. The person who is talking about their lifestyle, and the one that choose to interpret that as superiority statement. The "criteria" for "better" is not established -- it's not cut and dry like "who has more money." It's all based on a person's interpretation of what *a better lifestyle is*. Some people might think 24/7 bdsmers are at the bottom of the food chain, you know that? Because they don't think it's functional, or it's not balanced. Or any host of reasons why it is "less than."

quote:


How come some people get all offended and bent out of shape, claiming others are trying to "Act superior" or be "more kinky" or whatever? Obviously it affects *your* ego, so you are the one with the issue. What insecurities is it rattling? Why does it even matter if someone is higher on the "bdsm totem pole" (as if one exists -- and it apparently exists very clearly in YOUR mind)? Why does that threaten you? Why does that cause YOU any angst? Who cares? Is it jealousy? Seriously, why do you let it bother you? Why do you interpret it as grandstanding, when for all you know it is enthusiasm?

quote:


More importantly, why do you *choose* to believe that "more" or "24/7" or "insert whatever it is you think is grandstanding" makes that person better? I don't get that feeling at all when I hear people talk about how "into" the scene they are. I could really care less. I know there are a lot of people that are way more "lifestyle" than me, and a lot that are about the same and a lot that are less into it. Who cares? How does that affect my life one bit? Do I get a lesser parking space or something?

quote:


In fact, I bet a lot of people who are weekend kinksters (but really do love it) or casual players with a toe in "the scene" and the rest in vanilla don't see these people as grandstanding or "better than" -- think about it. The probably see them as fruitcakes or extremists, or shrug it off and say "whatever, I don't get that, but hey works for you..." Why are these kinky people not "offended" by their apparent grandstanding, but you are?

quote:



If these kinky people started coming online and talking very passionately about how their kink/vanilla life is SO integrated, runs SO smoothly, how they switch gears with ease, how they have the most passionate weekends but none of that nonsense drama, or strange "scene parties" ...well, they would be "better than" too, right? They would be putting down everyone, because they measure success in a different way?

quote:


The bottom line is -- you have a choice about how someone's attitude affects you.

quote:

The problem is when a person try to elevate your situation and give it a false validity by giving it some kind of label that to me, really doesn't mean much.