RE: Rape and training

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ggonknees -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 11:44:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kisshou There is a Dominant that I personally know very well. At one time he was in a relationship with a submissive. He was into rape-play and the submissive also expressed a desire and gave not only her consent but encouragement to participate in this play with him. They never set a date for this scene. They had discussed fantasies but never details of how a scene would play out. Since they were in a relationship he had access and intimately knew her home. She got home from work one evening as usual. He was hiding in her home, he snuck up behind her and threw a pillowcase over her head. He did not utter a word or make a sound, she had no idea it was him. He bound her and dragged her up a staircase bumping her along the way. She fought like a tiger kicking and screaming. He then proceeded to have forced intercourse with her. When it was over he let her see it was him. My purpose in relating this to you was not to judge that dominants actions but to show you why people say communication is so important. If the thought of this happening to you scares you , or you think it would damage you then you better have a sit down real quick with the Dominant you are involved in. If you are too shy or unwilling to discuss this with him face to face, then send him an email, or write it out on paper and give it to him. I've told him but he told me to meditate about it, left me to continue with my daily tasks etc - which i see as conditioning for it...for something i'm not comfortable with. I raise it one week ago - he's not talked to me about it yet. Says a lot. I'm interested in what happened after that play-rape scene - was she cross, upset, pleased, aroused?

ggonknees -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 11:46:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: junecleaver You can't rape the willing. ;) Well you see that's what I said when he first hinted at it. That's when it gave me indication that it wouldn't be 'play-rape' - that it wouldn't be something i'd be able to enjoy, it would be severe. Again, when I said it sared me, he said it should. It's not really built his case. g

ggonknees -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 11:52:57 AM)
quote: I can see that. You've lived your entire life, I'm assuming, in a reality where YOU get to decide who gets to use your body, when, how, on what terms. You are, presumably, seeking to enter a relationship where that's no longer true. A rape-scene might be one way of impressing deeply into your consciousness that change. I'm not saying it's the only way to do that, I'm not saying it's the best way to do that, and in particular I'm not saying that it's really the best way to do it in your case. You obviously are thinking it's not, and you know the situation better than I do - and better than any other poster here does. But, at the same time, I can't help but think that there must be good reasons you've gone this far with him, and that he is also in a better position than any poster here to know what the deal is. He may have good reason to judge that this is the best way to take you over the threshold, so to speak. And I would recommend that you think about that possibility, and possibly discuss it with him some more, before you scrap the whole project. The thing is, you also make some valid points - that maybe that is a way of enforcing this change. My instinct is to not continue - i think that it's not quite right from me, although i also understand the thoughts you've put across to me. I think it's a lot bigger than i can deal with, so soon. i am slightly loathed to leave it as there's so much i like so far, but this (and a couple of niggles that weren't big enough to be raise at the time) has really pushed me towards a stop. I'm still thinking, but really wanted to get some advice from the people here - it's been very very useful in so many ways. gg

kisshou -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 12:47:27 PM)
I refuse to tell you what happened after that scene. It does not matter how she felt what matters is how you would feel. junecleaver stated you can't rape the willing , totally missing the point. Is being raped something you have held deep , with very specific actions taking place , fantasies about for a long time. Is being raped , you tell the man no and he winks at you , wiggles his eyebrows , you giggle , he says "I command you to say yes', you change your no to yes..... Do you trust him with your life? See the difference!!!! Maybe it will be the best experience of your life , maybe you will be traumatized and have nightmares for months. There is nothing wrong with going over the cliff but you need to slow down the speed you are traveling at. If he gives you an ultimatum remember this, it is better to walk away and live to play another day.

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 12:57:45 PM)
gg It seems to me like you've already pretty much made up your mind. Don't ignore those niggly feelings, they may be what saves your life. There's plenty of other people who w/ill safely fufill those "other things" you like so much.

ggonknees -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 2:50:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kisshou I refuse to tell you what happened after that scene. It does not matter how she felt what matters is how you would feel. junecleaver stated you can't rape the willing , totally missing the point. Sorry, I didn't mean my question to be insulting - I was thinking that it was just awful, but i wondered if that had worked for her. I hope I didn't offend

ggonknees -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 2:51:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion gg It seems to me like you've already pretty much made up your mind. Don't ignore those niggly feelings, they may be what saves your life. There's plenty of other people who w/ill safely fufill those "other things" you like so much. Thank you - I think you're right.

mistoferin -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 2:57:15 PM)
You may also be interested in reading this other thread. http://www.collarme.com/forum/m_59115/mpage_1/key_play%252Crape/tm.htm#59124

Raphael -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 6:02:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ggonknees The thing is, you also make some valid points - that maybe that is a way of enforcing this change. My instinct is to not continue - i think that it's not quite right from me, although i also understand the thoughts you've put across to me. I think it's a lot bigger than i can deal with, so soon. i am slightly loathed to leave it as there's so much i like so far, but this (and a couple of niggles that weren't big enough to be raise at the time) has really pushed me towards a stop. I'm still thinking, but really wanted to get some advice from the people here - it's been very very useful in so many ways. gg OK. You're sure that it's more than you can handle. Tell him that, if you do still desire to continue with him, just not this far this fast. If he can't accept that then I'd have to say the posters that are being less than kind to him are probably right. And if there are "niggles" from before this bothering you too... maybe you don't care to continue with him regardless at this point. I'd have to say trust your gut on that.

junecleaver -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 6:13:24 PM)
quote: junecleaver stated you can't rape the willing , totally missing the point. Um. Junecleaver stated you can't rape the willing as a JOKE. Sheesh, I'll try to reign my humor in and only joke around on the humor section.

Lepidoptera -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 9:17:51 PM)
I'm curious... is it the rape aspect or the sex aspect you find difficult? I think acting out a play rape the first time you have sex (I think this is what you implied- maybe you have had sex with him before, I don't know) is a little bit much. Maybe when he says "rape" he really just means sex... as in "next time we meet we are having sex."

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 9:32:27 PM)
Lepid, she already said he didn't mean pplay or sex, if you read everything she said carefully you will se she sais he ment it not to be play or enjoyable. he ment to really rape her.

Lepidoptera -> RE: Rape and training (5/20/2005 9:49:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion Lepid, she already said he didn't mean pplay or sex, if you read everything she said carefully you will se she sais he ment it not to be play or enjoyable. he ment to really rape her. I guess it's a little confusing for me, because none of the sex I've had with any Dom/me was ever pleasurable - at least not physically. If she doesn't find in mentally pleasurable, then they just probably aren't compatible- especially if he doesn't seem to recognize her concerns (which he doesn't seem to be).

Jasmyn -> RE: Rape and training (5/21/2005 6:18:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ggonknees OK, i'm veeeeery new to the scene. i was discovered outside the scene by my Master and have used this forum to learn about this. Loving training to be a slave - i didn't know how much i had it in me. i've written this in another post, so forgive me if you've already read this, but i feel it's significant enough to start a new thread on it. i've come to a stand-still on my training. My Master said at my first training session that he is to rape me. We've been corresponding for about 3 months, met after 1 month, in private the other week. i raised this as an issue that i wasn't happy about it and that it scared me. He said, i should be scared. Which, naturally scared me even more. With it in mind that a slave is to accept whatever her Master choses to mete out on His slave's body whether she likes it or not - where on earth does rape fit in this? Especially as part of training. It's a delicate line to tread 'play-rape', but something tells me it ain't play. In my own working out of the situation, i have asked to terminate the relationship - He's told me to meditate on it. i am. And with the help of you helpful people out there... Is this something that is acceptable in the context that a slave is to be wants and accept whatever her Master desires (rape included)? Does this mean that i'm well off the mark in wanting to be a slave? Or is it a classic case of being incompatible? (Yet more questions) has this been something that other slave's in their training has had (He says it is to break me)? i just know i can't accept that...I believe he's more sadistic than i would want my Master to be (everything else i accept and love, punishment included). What do you guys think (about any of the questions raise)? Opinions soooo gratefully received. gg Have you ever questioned 'why' he 'discovered' you? Maybe he just found you were easy to manipluate, easty to feed a few lines about subservience and submission, he starts calling you slave and little one, and next thing your masturbating on cue and entering some holy grail of 'training'? He's dangled, threatened rape from the onset that no true slave would deny her Master anything, including her body ... so funnily enough part of this training will of course include raping you... to break you ... help you accept your place at his feet ... nothing personal mind... but its my duty as a Master to do this ... Conditioning ...Is what I think.... Trust your instincts ... personally I'd tell him ...glorified rape ain't my scene ... no matter how he tries dressing it up. You didn't ask for this ... he's telling you this is what you want, this is what you need ... even if you did agree, I'd argue being 'raped' under those circumstances is 'consensual'.

ggonknees -> RE: Rape and training (5/21/2005 9:26:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lepidoptera I'm curious... is it the rape aspect or the sex aspect you find difficult? I think acting out a play rape the first time you have sex (I think this is what you implied- maybe you have had sex with him before, I don't know) is a little bit much. Maybe when he says "rape" he really just means sex... as in "next time we meet we are having sex." He made it clear it's not play-rape. it will be harsher than even i can imagine. he was quite clear about that. It's not the sex, or even that at some point it would be, say, hard or extreme (i hope it's not contradictorary, it's not meant to be, sometimes hard to explain it exactly)...it's the purpose of it and so soon. The concept of play-rape can be introduced to the role (and that may be something i become interested in later on) but i believe that it takes a bit of negotation and being comfortable with how it is carried out. You know, there's a thread on rape and it covers that and it made a lot of sense. It's something that both parties would want to do and in a agreed manner. In those posts, i've seen that done badly (i.e. too realistically), it's severely wrecked the relationship. Also as one post said earlier on here, there's a big chance that it'd have a psychological impact on me. I believe that to be true in this instance. I hope it doesn't seem too contradictorary, it's just the way i'm trying to understand what that act would do to me. gg

ggonknees -> RE: Rape and training (5/21/2005 9:30:50 AM)
quote: I guess it's a little confusing for me, because none of the sex I've had with any Dom/me was ever pleasurable - at least not physically. If she doesn't find in mentally pleasurable, then they just probably aren't compatible- especially if he doesn't seem to recognize her concerns (which he doesn't seem to be). Now this is an interesting point for me - i realise i can't be a full slave (as i though i could be) as there has to be a certain amount of pleasure for me. You're right, we're not compatible - there are probably tonnes of people out there who want to have sex with their Dom/me or Master and that's what they want. i think that through people i've exchanged emails with, it's become more clear that i am not orientated the way i thought i was. (someone got it right - that i am probably a sub with slave tendencies). But i think i didn't expect him not to recognise my concerns or allow me to discuss it. And that is where another problem lies for me. gg

ggonknees -> RE: Rape and training (5/21/2005 9:34:00 AM)
quote: Have you ever questioned 'why' he 'discovered' you? Maybe he just found you were easy to manipluate, easty to feed a few lines about subservience and submission, he starts calling you slave and little one, and next thing your masturbating on cue and entering some holy grail of 'training'? He's dangled, threatened rape from the onset that no true slave would deny her Master anything, including her body ... so funnily enough part of this training will of course include raping you... to break you ... help you accept your place at his feet ... nothing personal mind... but its my duty as a Master to do this ... Conditioning ...Is what I think.... Trust your instincts ... personally I'd tell him ...glorified rape ain't my scene ... no matter how he tries dressing it up. You didn't ask for this ... he's telling you this is what you want, this is what you need ... even if you did agree, I'd argue being 'raped' under those circumstances is 'consensual'. Yes, i believe a lot of this is conditioning (hence meditating on it rather than to talk about it), your point is certainly worth considering, for sure. But at the end of the day all i know is that i'm exceptionally happy that meeting him has led me here (so one good thing...). My instinct is to move on. Thank you for your thoughts gg

perverseangelic -> RE: Rape and training (5/21/2005 10:18:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ggonknees Now this is an interesting point for me - i realise i can't be a full slave (as i though i could be) as there has to be a certain amount of pleasure for me. I think that this way trouble lies. EVERYONE gets pleasure out of their relationship, or they wouldn't be in that relationship. Perhaps your pleasure comes from being useful, or from serving, or from being treated as an object, or from subsuming your desires in your owners. You are -still- getting pleasure. Just not the kind of pleasure most imagine. There is NO requirement that a "true" anything not enjoy what they're doing. If you got no pleasure from it, why are you there? I think that the outlook that demands that a submissive person (incompasing term, here) be willing to get -nothing- from a relationship in order to be "real" misses the idea that people don't seek out a realtionship from which they get nothing. why would one be in a relationship that gave them -nothing- in return? I don't think that someone who demands a realtionship which will fufill her is any less submissive to that person. In trying to get me to have phone sex with him yesterday, someone told me yesterday that a 'true slave'tm must be willing to give up everything for her owner. I told him I agreed with that. He told me, then, that if I would have phone sex with him I wasn't a 'true slave' because I was clear that I seek only partners that can be with me realtime, and would not enter a relationship with someone I could only interact with over the phone. Ignoring the fact that I'm with my partner, there's a flaw here. He thinks that someone should give up whatever their owner wants. Ok. However, he also thinks that submissive individuals should enter relationships regardless as to whether those relationships fufill them. Unless one is in a situation which one despises, apparantly, one is not "true." I think that one only gives everything up when one has found someone that will fufill her. I could not give up everything for a relationship which brought me no joy. I don't think that makes me less a submissive person (again, inclusive). Ok. That rant aside, the guy your talking to creeps the hell out of me. I'm all for play rape. I am -not- a fan of rape that is designed to BE rape. Simulate it, sure, when peopel know that they are playing. Actually occur? Well, people go to jail for that. Good luck to you.

kisshou -> RE: Rape and training (5/21/2005 10:19:32 AM)
you did not offend me at all , please read mistoferin's post and the other thread on the subject. cheers kiss

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Rape and training (5/22/2005 9:46:46 PM)
You need to drop all this "true slave" idealisim. There;s no such thing as True slaves will....... that line is only used t o make someone think they're less of a submissive slave or person if they have opinions.

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