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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 7:55:19 AM   
DomKen


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After a good nights sleep I see Sicarius continues his BS campaign.

You continue to throw around logical fallacies like no one has ever heard of a non sequitur, anecdotal evidence, straw man or any of the other fallacies you're throwing around in place of valid arguments.

Once more:

1) Do you deny human involvement in the change in atmospheric CO2 that has occured in the last 200 years? If so what data exists in support of your denial?

2) Do you deny that the present atmospheric composition is able to retain more heat than the atmospheric composition from 200 years ago? If you do not do you agree that the change in CO2 concentration is the primary cause?


(in reply to Sicarius)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 8:29:29 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

A very large number of people in the scientific community are guilty of invoking "witch hunts" on anyone who dares lift a hand in protest of the almighty "global warming."

-Sicarius


I call BULLSHIT. NAME NAMES.

All these weasel words are what pisses people off. "A Very Large Number of People In The Scientific Community", don't exist except in moron's little-toy brains.

Hey, the propaganda is slick, and educational standards are pretty weak, so people who get suckered in shouldn't feel so bad.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sicarius)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 8:32:30 AM   
ModeratorEleven


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Folks,

Do your part to end global warming, please chill out. 

XI

_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 9:00:04 AM   
Sicarius


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From: New Orleans
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
After a good nights sleep I see Sicarius continues his BS campaign.


Thank you for that response, DomKen.  For a little while I was actually thinking you were the relatively polite and respectful one out of the bunch.  I suppose I was mistaken.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You continue to throw around logical fallacies like no one has ever heard of a non sequitur, anecdotal evidence, straw man or any of the other fallacies you're throwing around in place of valid arguments.


Quote them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
1) Do you deny human involvement in the change in atmospheric CO2 that has occured in the last 200 years? If so what data exists in support of your denial?

2) Do you deny that the present atmospheric composition is able to retain more heat than the atmospheric composition from 200 years ago? If you do not do you agree that the change in CO2 concentration is the primary cause?


It's funny, I believe I've already answered these questions.

1.)  No, I do not deny it, nor do I support it.  I remain skeptical and have not yet made up my mind in favor of one side or the other.  I understand that being skeptical is something you view as heretical against the Church of Global Warming, but I retain that position.  You're looking for something that isn't there, DomKen.  I don't support one side of this argument or the other side ... I am a bystander.  Given the fact that your side seems to be comprised of nothing but zealots who want to scream and club people over the head for disagreeing with the "Almighty Power" of your ideology, I have to admit I'm leaning a bit more toward the "anti" side, though.

2.)  I think that there is very compelling evidence to suggest that, yes.  I have no real reason to deny that assertion at all based on what I do know about both sides of the debate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I call BULLSHIT. NAME NAMES.

All these weasel words are what pisses people off. "A Very Large Number of People In The Scientific Community", don't exist except in moron's little-toy brains.

Hey, the propaganda is slick, and educational standards are pretty weak, so people who get suckered in shouldn't feel so bad.


Your chant at the beginning seems verly likely reminiscent of what must have been screamed on the sidelines at Salem's witch burnings.

Honestly, farglebargle ... what incentive do I have to continue replying to you with articulated responses when all you do is comb over every post and try to find a single sentence to scream at?  We're not debating anything ... I'm posting and you're nitpicking single sentences that you take issue with.  If you posted more than single-sentence paragraphs, I'm sure I could do the same in return.  When you're ready to speak civilly about the merit of hypotheses, theories, etc. you let me know and I'll be right there to talk to you about it.

Right now your relevance in this discussion is somewhere below propaganda and lingering around mere distortion.  For the sake of amusement, however, what say you of the treatment that Bjorn Lomborg received?

-Sicarius

_____________________________

"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; ... Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." -Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 10:03:07 AM   
DomKen


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Another round of evasions, how novel.

I have presented data, that is well supported, that atmospheric CO2 was around 280ppm in 1750 and is at 380+ ppm today. That is a fact. Unless you have some evidence to suggest the multiple lines of evidence in support of these numbers are wrong you must accept them. Now what caused the increase? I say that human activity is the cause and have the evidence that in the last 200 years we've added immense amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere through combustion of hydrocarbons. To deny this theory you need to show that human caused CO2 does not remain in the atmosphere and that some other source of CO2 is responsible for the change in CO2 concentration. You have consistently failed to do so but made grand claims about the scientific method without actually employing even the most basic elements of that method yourself.

BTW you conclude your response to my first question with an ad hominen, a logical fallacy you had so far failed to employ. It is unfortunate that you cannot support your position without resorting to such tactics.

Your response to my second question is almost an actually useful response. Unfortunately you felt the need to use weasel words where a simple positive or negative response is appropriate.

Want to try again? This time I suggest you actually employ trhe scientific method you made such a show of supporting. Although after reading your replies to L&M I'm fairly convinced you're simply trolling for your own amusement.

(in reply to Sicarius)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 10:13:55 AM   
philosophy


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""The Church of NON-Global Warming is just as bad... "

LOL, except one is following a belief without evidence, just like a church, and the other is requiring evidence, the exact opposite of a church."

......so, what you're saying is that all those scientific studies which suggest a human impact on climate don't constitute evidence and therefore can be safely ignored?
To ask for evidence while ignoring any previously accumulated evidence that disagrees with your position reminds me of that old adage....'there's none so deaf as those who wont hear'

(in reply to curiousexplorer)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 10:29:22 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:


Honestly, farglebargle ... what incentive do I have to continue replying to you with articulated responses


None. And that's never been what I've demanded you provide to support your claims.

I've just asked for the name of a single credible individual to support your broad allegations.





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sicarius)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 10:39:00 AM   
popeye1250


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There is more and more evidence that increased solar activity is causing temperatures to rise not only on Earth but on Mars as well.
That defenestrates any argument of the church of global warming.
Yet, the global warming nazis cling to fading hopes of their arguments.
I wonder if they'll be having reunions ten years from now; "boy, those were the good old days, fucking up non-believers, manipulating the ignorant!"
"Yeah, us global warming politically-correct goosesteppers RULED!"
"Can we get a chant!" "Heil Gore! Heil Gore! Heil Gore!"
"Those godamned SCIENTISTS! We had a good thing going for a while!"

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 10:41:33 AM   
farglebargle


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I wonder if it wasn't Al Gore's pet project, the science would get a credible hearing?

What is "more and more evidence"? I'll need to see the data.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 11:12:08 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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Actually the solar radiance data isn't correlative with Mars' or Earth's warming. Solar irradiance peaked back in the early 90's and is expected to reach a minimum sometime around 2040. However evidence shows that global warming has only accelerated since the peak even though the Earth receives less solar heat now than it did in the early 90's.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, the scientist making the claim linking Earth and Mars' cliamte change, also dismisses CO2 as being a greenhouse gas.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 12:14:01 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I wonder if it wasn't Al Gore's pet project, the science would get a credible hearing?

What is "more and more evidence"? I'll need to see the data.




Fargle, if the Earth and Mars are heating up *at the same rate* what more evidence do you need? That's called increased solar activity and there's simply nothing that can be done about that.
And Gore's "film" is no different than a Josef Goebbels "film", it's pure propaganda intended to incite the global warming goosesteppers.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 12:20:16 PM   
farglebargle


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Well, wouldn't, for one, the inverse square law require that the available solar radiation reaching mars, to be proportional to the square of the distance?

In other words, for the 2 bodies to be heating *at the same rate*, the amount of energy reaching mars would have to be the same.

( adjusted for difference in planetary masses, I suppose... )

That said, if that factoid is relevant, wouldn't it show some offsetting force on Earth opposing the incredibly high rate of solar heating?

This all works out better on a whiteboard, and with real numbers, I expect.

Anyone got some?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 12:30:30 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, wouldn't, for one, the inverse square law require that the available solar radiation reaching mars, to be proportional to the square of the distance?

In other words, for the 2 bodies to be heating *at the same rate*, the amount of energy reaching mars would have to be the same.

( adjusted for difference in planetary masses, I suppose... )

That said, if that factoid is relevant, wouldn't it show some offsetting force on Earth opposing the incredibly high rate of solar heating?

This all works out better on a whiteboard, and with real numbers, I expect.

Anyone got some?




Fargle, "at the same rate" doesn't mean that.
It's two different measurements which co-relate.
One level of solar power reaching Earth , another level reaching Mars.
Both levels can be measured seperatly then extrapulated.

www.theguyfromboston.com
Go in that site then look at video menu, push "Global Warming".
That'll explain it

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/28/2007 12:37:47 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 5:32:19 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, wouldn't, for one, the inverse square law require that the available solar radiation reaching mars, to be proportional to the square of the distance?

In other words, for the 2 bodies to be heating *at the same rate*, the amount of energy reaching mars would have to be the same.

( adjusted for difference in planetary masses, I suppose... )

That said, if that factoid is relevant, wouldn't it show some offsetting force on Earth opposing the incredibly high rate of solar heating?

This all works out better on a whiteboard, and with real numbers, I expect.

Anyone got some?




Fargle, "at the same rate" doesn't mean that.
It's two different measurements which co-relate.
One level of solar power reaching Earth , another level reaching Mars.
Both levels can be measured seperatly then extrapulated.

www.theguyfromboston.com
Go in that site then look at video menu, push "Global Warming".
That'll explain it


Hey, you have the data to support this? I don't feel like wading through a video tonight...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 5:34:59 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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So...

What I am hearing is...

That if mankind would stop all forms of carbon based fuels, Global Climate Change would go away????


(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 5:36:04 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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I couldn't tell you. I've not really seen compelling data either way.

I hear a lot of COMMENTARY, but not a lot of Climatology.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 5:36:54 PM   
popeye1250


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It's a two minute video.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 5:39:28 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

So...

What I am hearing is...

That if mankind would stop all forms of carbon based fuels, Global Climate Change would go away????




...how come this is what you're hearing? No-one here has suggested this...perhaps you're reading our posts but hearing the dulcet tones of GWB and other rather unimaginative people that can't conceive of multi-cause problems.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 5:39:51 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
I got woken up after 2 hours sleep this morning. Had to fix something, then didn't get back to sleep before the next meltdown.

My head's all fried. If it's only 2 minutes, how does it present an abstract, methodology, data, results, and conclusions in any meaningful way?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I hav... - 5/28/2007 5:53:42 PM   
greyarcher315


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 the problem I have with global warming is that it basicly a prediction of the weather for the whole planet , going several decades to several centuries into the future. scince we can not even predict the weather a month from now, how can we be sure we have the predictions right?  also, a lot of the so called studies are just computer models, which are very subject to GIGO.(garbage in, garbage out)

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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