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RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 12:02:03 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		You announce something like this AFTER you're elected not before.
Watch his poll numbers go down!
I do think we need to have a National Healthcare Plan in place by the way.
However, many people won't like the cuts to other programs already in place so that we can *afford* it.
Doing away with foreign aid for one.
The Lobbying Corporations on "K" street would fight that tooth and nail! They make a LOT of money off of those foreign aid programs!

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 12:20:14 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		(fast reply)

Ahh... the illusion of getting something for "nothing" (what some other guys pay for)... Sounds sweet, doesn't it?

Hey... why treat the cause of the lack of health care, when you can treat the symptoms of it with bigger and better band-aids, bigger government, and by becoming more deeply entrenched into the system all at the same time.

Ask yourselves who the bill will really fall upon after all this nonsense plays itself out. 

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 3:14:05 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		We're already paying the bill.

You know, not many people seem to be aware that Edwards has a national health-care plan as well--and it's more detailed than Obama's:

http://johnedwards.com/about/issues/health-care-overview.pdf

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Ask yourselves who the bill will really fall upon after all this nonsense plays itself out. 

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 3:32:56 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		We already have "universal healthcare".  It's called the Emergency Room at the hospital.  Go to one any time and see it full of uninsured people there because they have a bad cough.
 
It would be a good idea to have some kind of guaranteed healthcare for children, under the age of 18, whose parent(s) are uninsured, which are many.  i have known several kids, below the age of 10, whose parents either are self-employed, work part time, or for some other reason, have no insurance and their kids go without glasses and go untreated for fevers and illnesses because their parent(s) can't or won't pay the cost themself.  Kids shouldn't have to suffer because of their parent(s) inability to get medical insurance.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 3:54:03 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I always have to scratch my head when I read reactions like this one, because, dollar for dollar, we have the crappiest health-care system in the world.  Every other advanced nation has better life-expectancy and infant-mortality statistics than we do.  You can look it up.  We're comparable to something like Peru.

All these other countries all have some form of nationalized health care, too.  The only people here who wouldn't benefit are corporations like Blue Cross.  "Increased expense"?  Any economist will tell you that nationalized health care would be much cheaper overall.  Health-insurance premiums in the U.S. are outrageous.



Theres the communist spirit!  Go lam!

i will agree it needs reform but giving this country an even greqter socialistr fasclift than it already has is not an option imo.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 3:56:43 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

(fast reply)

Ahh... the illusion of getting something for "nothing" (what some other guys pay for)... Sounds sweet, doesn't it?

Hey... why treat the cause of the lack of health care, when you can treat the symptoms of it with bigger and better band-aids, bigger government, and by becoming more deeply entrenched into the system all at the same time.

Ask yourselves who the bill will really fall upon after all this nonsense plays itself out. 



BANG!


Ouuuuu day it is right on target!  People just never wake up i swear!





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/29/2007 3:57:49 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 4:04:22 PM   
dogthing


Posts: 98
Joined: 9/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Kids shouldn't have to suffer because of their parent(s) inability to get medical insurance.
 

Agreed, kids in the developed world shouldn't be missing out on basic healthcare just because they've committed the sin of choosing their parents badly.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 4:10:39 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Every time this comes up, I have to point out that the WASTAGE *directly* caused BY INSURANCE COMPANIES practice of denying *properly filed* claims results in a loss estimate to exceed THREE TRILLION DOLLARS.

By enforcing good-faith payment practices, we would have enough money available to give everyone a boob job, AND whatever else they *needed*.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to dogthing)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 4:40:34 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Well, all I have to say about it since it is at the moment just him saying he has a plan but I can't seem to find the plan, is that from the article it looks as if "The Experts" referenced want to fund it by getting rid of tax cuts. Argggghh, my problem with these "new" programs is they always raise taxes, why not cut some bullshit out of the current budget to pay for it. 

Zero budget increase, if they want to play around with programs they have plenty of tax money already shuffle it. Hey I know, cut military spending. There you go.

If he plans to fund via tax increases, then I'm against it regardless of the content of the plan.


< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 5/29/2007 4:49:46 PM >

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 5:17:36 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Well, all I have to say about it since it is at the moment just him saying he has a plan but I can't seem to find the plan, is that from the article it looks as if "The Experts" referenced want to fund it by getting rid of tax cuts. Argggghh, my problem with these "new" programs is they always raise taxes, why not cut some bullshit out of the current budget to pay for it. 

Zero budget increase, if they want to play around with programs they have plenty of tax money already shuffle it. Hey I know, cut military spending. There you go.

If he plans to fund via tax increases, then I'm against it regardless of the content of the plan.




yah but the tax cuts are ficticious!  They give us a tax cut and pump more money into the system so where is the cut?    i dont see it,  of course it works great for those who did not get a fixed mortgage and bought into modernomics system of money management.


oh and i actully watched tv for the first time in ages today and seen our former president..err i mean hilary talking about getting rid of the bush tax cut, which will result in a bit more buying power and us money has once again been successfully manipulated to bilk people out of their money and politiocians making hay over it.




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/29/2007 5:22:33 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 5:37:54 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		General Reply -
 
The Governator was on The Tonight Show last week talking with Jay Leno.  Arnold wants to have universal health care in California.  He mentioned that the concept of national health care has been discussed since Teddy Rossevelt but has never been done by the Federal Government.  So now individual states are starting to provide coverage for their own residents.
 
He also pointed out that we all pay a hidden tax in high premiums and deductables for the
millions of uninsured who have to seek basic care at the Emergency Rooms.
 
I would also like to mention that millions of Americans along both the Canadian and Mexican borders cross
the borders for less expensive prescriptions and treatments.
 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 6:12:13 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Even when you work a full time job and have a family insurance can cost anywhere from 400 to 900 dollars per month for a family.  You'd almost be better off putting that money in the bank and gamble on never getting a life threatening illness or some tragic disease.  But if you have kids you really can't do that.  The real problem is the age range between 19 to 21 - they go off their parents insurance (if they are not full time college students) and if they have any kind of illness it's the parent's responsibility to pay.  They cannot get medicaid till they are 21 - till then they are YOUR responsibility, i know because i am fighting this now with my oldest who has incurred a lot of medical expenses and she's off my insurance - we were paying 900  month for it - we switched and now only pay 400 - aren't we lucky!  By the time we pay the 500 deductible, 30 co pay per visit, and depending on what the insurance company "will pay" for certain prescriptions i never know what i will have to pay for certain meds.  i just pray i never to get sick so i don't have to use it.  NY has many options for people - Healthy NY - NY Plus - all for low income to no income people - there are minimum payments, and some requirements, but for some reason they assume if a 19 to 21 yr old is very sick there's no choice for them - so yes if we have to we use the ER - they can't refuse treatment - i don't like doing it but i won't see my kid's health fail because the state doesn't care to do something about this age bracket. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 6:35:56 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Obama offers universal health care plan
By MIKE GLOVER, Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago


 
Seeking to add heft to his presidential bid, Democrat Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) is offering a sweeping plan that would provide every citizen a means to have health coverage and calls on government, businesses and consumers to share the costs of the program.

Obama said putting in place universal health coverage has been debated for decades, but the time has finally come to act. He said his plan could save the average consumer $2,500 a year and bring health care to all.

"The time has come for universal, affordable health care in America," Obama said in remarks prepared for delivery at the unveiling of his plan Tuesday in Iowa City.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070529/ap_on_el_pr/obama_health


(Gawwdammit MAN!!! One of these days I'm gonna get you to actually ask an actual gawddamn MF question!!!!!).

However...

As a Republicrat (formerly a Republicalibertariacrat)...and a bidness owner, I was (once) against Hillary's (and her husbands earlier) attempts to make this a Democrat issue, moreover...it was something I felt we as bidness people could (and should) handle on our own.

Now, 10+ years later, with health care having risen 17% (2004), 29% (2005), 21% (2006), and now anticipated for 2007...26%...as a bidness owner I'm screaming HEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!....

And I'm thinking..."Hell yeah...make this universal for all...." it's too fucking expensive.

And for those of you thinking "yeah, right...give me a fucking break...it doesn't cost that much" when your boss is telling you "This shit is fucking KILLING ME!!!!!"...he (or she) ain't lying.

In 1997 it was 6% of my cost of doing business (and we raise prices religiously every year).

In 1999 it was 8%, and I thought..."gotta raise prices again....this may be an aberration...but I gotta cover my costs...we can always lower them later"....

And in 2001, they hit 9%.

In 2007 they're over 17%.
 
(And just so's ya know....we've grown over 20% every year since 1998...but we ain't growing "out of it").

And for the record...I own a company where the feds mandate through federal law, my product (and products like mine), wherein which I have fairly decent latitude as to pricing.

(Most company's don't have that luxury).

It's getting wicked out there.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 8:44:01 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I found a very interesting article in Business Week on the subject -

"It's Time to Cure Health Care"

"Nearly everyone agrees that all Americans need medical insurance. It's time for Washington to make it happen"

January 23, 2006, SOUND MONEY
By Chris Farrell
 

" HARBINGER OF CHANGE.  The U.S. has flirted with some kind of national health policy six times over the past 100 years, only to see the reform impulse wither each time. For instance, a key plank in Theodore Roosevelt's losing Presidential campaign of 1912 was national health insurance. President Harry Truman tried again after World War II, but he was thwarted by a potent combination of political forces, including the vehement opposition of the American Medical Assn., which was determined to defend doctors' incomes against the threat of "socialized" medicine.

The Clinton Administration's health-care initiative of 1993 collapsed a year later, after conservatives, physicians, and insurance companies mounted a well-orchestrated attack. "Major changes in health policy, like major changes in any area, are political acts, undertaken for political purposes," Victor Fuchs, the dean of health economists, wrote in his 1993 book, The Future of Health Policy.

Well, Maryland's "Wal-Mart Bill" may be a harbinger that the politics of health are changing. The Maryland State legislature recently overturned the veto of Republican Governor Robert Ehrlich, and passed a bill that requires any employer in the state with 10,000 or more employees to spend at least 8% of its payroll on health care -- or pay the state the difference (see BW Online, 1/17/06, "First Wal-Mart. Then Who?"). The only company to fit all the bill's requirements is Wal-Mart (WMT ), which has 17,000 employees in Maryland. "

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jan2006/nf20060123_1965_db013.htm

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 9:01:16 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		griz you just gotta raise your prices accordingly!

oh trust me i know it doesnt work that way!  its a littel slanted aint it?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 9:43:20 PM   
StructuredKing


Posts: 27
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		I hate the thought of the elderly and young not having care, too, so I'd say deregulate the entire industry, hold HMO's/insurance companies to their contracts, and allow the market to provide the best possible solution, namely, people choosing with their own money. Otherwise, we'll be waiting 17 weeks for an MRI (Canada), or having British looking teeth. No thanks.

Oh, did I mention, it's MY money. Stop stealing it for forced acts of charity that turns people into government dependents. :-p

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 10:28:46 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

(fast reply)

Ahh... the illusion of getting something for "nothing" (what some other guys pay for)... Sounds sweet, doesn't it?

Hey... why treat the cause of the lack of health care, when you can treat the symptoms of it with bigger and better band-aids, bigger government, and by becoming more deeply entrenched into the system all at the same time.

Ask yourselves who the bill will really fall upon after all this nonsense plays itself out. 



BANG!


Ouuuuu day it is right on target!  People just never wake up i swear!


<sigh> ... isn't that the truth...

Have you noticed that no one even mentions the cause of the problem? It seems as though nearly the entire population has been brainwashed, via years of indoctrination, into convoluted thinking. Very few can even see beyond treating symptoms these days.  

In the end, I believe people are going to get exactly what they deserve.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 10:57:01 PM   
daddysblondie


Posts: 181
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		Well, technically we already have a national health care system for poor families...it's called Medicaid (MediCal in California). Does it suck ass? Pretty much.

It seems many of the states have gone further and instituted health care plans for children of low to middle income families that are based on a sliding scale depending on family income. The program is actually administered on a National Level by the Department of Health and Human services. At the national level, its called SCHIP.

Furthermore, we have health care for seniors...it's called Medicare. It sucks ass too. Why? Because the government is in charge. ( Yes, I'm oversimplifying but as a former government employee, I've seen all too well how legistlators get involved and make simple crap overly complicated....)

From what I've seen in my own experience, yes, there are problems with the way the health care system in the US works. The notion that we "need" universal health care coverage in the US is a fallacy as far as I'm concerned. I've seen plenty of people who had insurance available to them at a nominal fee and made the choice to refuse insurance simply because they didn't feel it was a priority but when someone else was footing the bill for it, suddenly had the desire to take every opportunity to go to the doctor.

I personally don't see how the government is going to give me medical coverage equal to what I have now for less than what it's currently costing. Simply put, any national plan is going to cost me more and provide me with less. As with all things governmental, the middle class are going to be the ones losing the most. They are going to be the ones, especially those on the low end feeling the bite of the increase in taxes to cover the costs, and are likely going to lose coverage over what they have now, and who's going to feel sorry for them when they're still scrimping to pay for medications, or even to pay for additional coverage so that those on the lower end can have "more". I'm not hard hearted enough to say that we shouldnt have basic coverage for those most needy, but I also am a little tired of the notion that I should be busting my ass every day at work so that I can make ends meet and live within my means, so that someone else can have more for nothing.


(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 11:08:11 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Why are you so sure of that?  Anytime we privatize anything in this country, we end up paying more than we ever did before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysblondie

Simply put, any national plan is going to cost me more and provide me with less.

(in reply to daddysblondie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Obama offers universal health care plan - 5/29/2007 11:52:55 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The $99 airfares from NYC to LAX counter your argument LM.
Also in most cases the deregulated industries make up for the higher prices they charge by improving the product or service well above the levels formerly provided.


BTW you never addressed the Infant Mortality rates explination?
Your thoughts on the information provided showing the false comparison?


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 40
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