quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

<fast reply>

...if a country wishes to act from the moral high ground then they have to actually occupy it. The invasion of Iraq was justified by the governments involved on ethical grounds, in other words those governments took the moral high ground. Therefore Gitmo and torture are betrayals of that ethical position. Hypocritical basically.
Thus the moral authority of those governments is diminished.

If such a situation is acceptable to some then consider this........it basically allows the US to occupy any country they want. If ethics, morals or international law simply doesn't apply then what is to stop the US invading Canada? After all, we have a fair bit of oil up here too

Oh yes, and calling the prisoners of Gitmo 'illegal combatants' is meaningless semantic trickery. No such term exists in international law, it's merely a way for the current US regime to ignore treaty obligations. 

Philosophy, here we go again with that "Moral High Ground" crap.
I don't remember voting for that stuff.
You try to fight a war "morally" and you get killed.
And, I seriously doubt that if we did do things that way that we'd see foreign countries stepping forward with checks worth billions to "support" us!
"Good feelings" from foreign countries don't pay the bills!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

   We have armored trucks being bought by the homeland security to militarize this countries police.  Even russia never had that!

No - the KGB (internal division) was part of the military directly - and, therefore could muster a battalion to put down protests. Ask the Chetchens.

Again - sensationalist tripe. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

   Once the straw breaks the camels back the people become powerless to change it.  

Every contingent emergency the US has ever been faced with has been greeted by populist militarism which waned in the coming years... same thing as now.

The "doom and gloom" rhetoric you are using is also endemic to all of those situations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

  If you were to bring back the founding fathers and show them what is going on here today they would totally freak out.

Of course - who could have envisioned at that time internet porn and McDonalds - I would have a freaking bird too.

This comparrison is non -sequitor and completely silly - it is like saying that Bethoven es would be outraged by the use of his music in modern compositions... maybe he would - but, it is not something he could be expected to understand based on his culturalization and coming from his times.

quote:

So as the footer says, this country is doomed because by the time people wake up it will be all be 50 years history.

Please leave  -  save yourself!

~J
Who really is tired of the silly and outrageous statements accepted as fact by otherwise intelligent people.

quote:

You try to fight a war "morally" and you get killed.

quote:

The technology was here since about 1910ish!  Free energy was a reality back then but snuffed out because the infrastructure was so expensive it required HUGE investors and not ma and pa types with a few pennies here and there

quote:

And, if you move on to a 'conspiracy theory mode' at this point, you have lost the discussion and left behind reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Like you think the founding fathers could give a rats behind about porno or mcdonalds?  Do you think i care for that matter?

quote:

i am speaking in terms of the way ignorance and selfishness has destroyed this nation and all that it stands for.

quote:

This is about liberty and the constitution that no longer exists that they watched their commrades die to give us that we are now shitting all over it.

quote:

You think it is silly to desire liberty over privildges?

quote:

  That is all we have now if you take a moment to "really" look into it is freaking "priviledge", we literally have no rights left under the "color" of private and corporate law. 

quote:

 There are a very few others in here who do understand the difference and maybe they will elaborate on it more for you.

quote:

Its no simple issue to disect and frankly requires a lot of damn research and work that FEW are wiling to do.

quote:

  Its just much easier to accept what is handed to you and call it freedom and democracy, (democracy btw was despised and hated by the founding fathers), and then everyone goes their merry way clueless as to what life could be for this nation.

quote:

we are a nation of pied piper willing slaves all the way up to the highest intelligence levels because people have become complacent and could give a shit about the other guy or protecting the rights that the forefathers and real patriots died to give us.

quote:

Countdown with Keith Olbermann. Olbermann interviews Jonathan Turley a constitutional law expert who rips Bush a new asshole, pointing out how many of his cronies are former criminals who have no respect for the law or the Constitution of the United States.

quote:

THIS CLIP ALSO DIRECTLY APPLIES TO THE OP:
"The Constitution is just a piece of paper" - G.W. Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmc60JmaLbE

quote:

Oh yeh and for those who think i am republican bashing wait till you see what i can provide for the democrat side of the fence, then everyone can accuse me of democrat bashing too!

quote:

i stand for liberty nothing else and those who would deny the people regarless of party deserve to be taken down.  period.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
did you ever examine the "litter" in the legal system left behind by these actions?  did you ever examine the effects on peoples thinking after these occurances?  

Here is a real obvious one: What happened with those 2 huge bombs that DID NOT explode at the murrah building?  they have film of the trucks removing them, there was going to be a huge and full investigation to get all the details on them.  Than magically NOTHING!  ZIPPO!  The story was left by the wayside and nothing more said or done.

Now you go out and commit a crime and see if things get so sweetly dropped by the wayside like the mass murders here in the states.  

There was no freaking investigation and if you really believe there was please find it for me because i was totally unable to come up with one.  It really does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why there would be no further investigation does there?   Oh thats right there was little to no investigation on 911 either.  small world imo.

you could have been in the wtc and you could have been in the murrah building.  its sort of foolish to think mcveigh planted those huge bombs on the inside and then mix a freaking fertilizer bomb for show...  That and if you researched it you then know the building was proven to be blown from the inside out not the other way around!

If its not doom and gloom please tell me from a constitutional standpoint what it is?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

   We have armored trucks being bought by the homeland security to militarize this countries police.  Even russia never had that!

No - the KGB (internal division) was part of the military directly - and, therefore could muster a battalion to put down protests. Ask the Chetchens.

Again - sensationalist tripe. 

really?

You need to research the way this government operates a bit more throughoughly.   Once the cities/states accept these vehicles via the prima facia avenue the also accept that the FEDS now have a certain say so in how they are to be used as well as are now under at least partial control fo the federal government in as much as security is concerned.   Its been done this way since i was a freaking child and since my parents were a child.  If there is a glaring example look at the education system....  

what do people think the feds give this stuff away without a hitch?  Its all about the states losing their sovereignty within the union and becomming federalized and ultimately under federal control.  The object is to get the whole us under the control of the ferderal government, one unified usa, one unified world, that is new world order.





One of the more ridiculous phrases in modern usage is “We are moving towards a police state.” We are not “moving” toward anything -- we are already living in a police state.
http://www.fullmoon.nu/book/side_issues/PoliceStateAmerica.htm


That and we already have the national guard which is directed by the military so whats different?   Now we can add police that will also or better said are already in many senses directed by the feds.

hardly sensational tripe more like we are here x marks the spot.


finally:

The United States of America is a fascistic police state.
"Surely not, I hear a shocked bystander proclaim. Tell me again, though: How many men, women, and children died at Waco for supposed paperwork violations of an unjust federal law? At Ruby Ridge? How many innocent people have died because they defied immoral and unconstitutional drug laws? Or as the result of daring to resist soldiers, er, police storming into their homes, unannounced and without visible warrants? How many terminal patients have been sentenced to death by a State that refuses to acknowledge the validity of "medical marijuana" laws that were designed to help these sick people combat the effects of their diseases? How many people have been condemned to an early grave because they are refused access to drugs that are not State approved? How many examples of "collateral damage" can we tally in the non-wars we have waged in Europe and elsewhere against people who dared to disagree with official American doctrine?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

The technology was here since about 1910ish!  Free energy was a reality back then but snuffed out because the infrastructure was so expensive it required HUGE investors and not ma and pa types with a few pennies here and there

OK - a reminder about the proviso:

quote:

And, if you move on to a 'conspiracy theory mode' at this point, you have lost the discussion and left behind reality.

Transmission of energy in usable transmutable quantities through the air is only now becoming a reality... in 1910, Tesla had a theory...
...nothing more...
 
 - and, it failed all actual testing.
 
-repetetively
-and, wiht different people both funding and trying the testing

Thank you for flying with us - we hope you enjoyed your stay.
 
~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Silly silly me....

quote:

NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

quote:

Telecoms let NSA spy on calls
By Leslie Cauley and John Diamond, USA TODAY
The National Security Agency has secured the cooperation of large telecommunications companies, including AT&T, MCI and Sprint, in its efforts to eavesdrop without warrants on international calls by suspected terrorists, according to seven telecommunications executives.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-02-05-nsa-telecoms_x.htm  

quote:


NSA phone program leaves many questions
Detailed answers are needed to calm civil liberty vs. security concerns

Tim Russert
Washington Bureau Chief

MSNBC:  Tim, the revelation that the National Security Agency has been building a massive database of American’s phone calls - tens of millions of American’s phone records sure looks like it comes at a tough time with General Michael Hayden, the nominee to head the CIA, being the former head of the NSA?

quote:


NSA Phone Record Program: More Than Meets the Eye
By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Thu May 11, 2006 at 09:46:37 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)

quote:


NSA phone spying program: a blueprint for mass repression
By Patrick Martin
15 May 2006

quote:

200 Million Americans' Phone Calls Are in Federal Databases
Written by Michael J. West
Published May 11, 2006
See also:
» The U.S. Shouldn't Execute Zacarias Moussaoui
» Markos Moulitsas Zúniga: Another Darth Nader?
» On William Jefferson And Office Searches

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

LOD, i assume you missed the part of my post where i stated it was a 'fast reply' and not aimed at you specifically.
As for your concept that the US, as a nation, believed they were acting justly i can only ask one question.....were there any dissenting voices in the US? If so, then you can not claim that the nation as a whole was behind the decision. Essentially, some accepted the government line and some did not. In hindsight, which group were more correct?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Like you think the founding fathers could give a rats behind about porno or mcdonalds?  Do you think i care for that matter?

Not only do you not care - I do not care that you do not care. But, now you know how silly the statement was.

quote:

i am speaking in terms of the way ignorance and selfishness has destroyed this nation and all that it stands for.

And, a good job you are doing of it too.

quote:

This is about liberty and the constitution that no longer exists that they watched their commrades die to give us that we are now shitting all over it.

Did you serve in the armed forces? If not this conversation is entirely theoretical for you and nonsense to me.

quote:

You think it is silly to desire liberty over privildges?

Nope - nor did I say that... I believe that your stance and the way you are approaching it are silly.

quote:

  That is all we have now if you take a moment to "really" look into it is freaking "priviledge", we literally have no rights left under the "color" of private and corporate law. 

Bull.
 
But, hey - I guess you need something to rant about - and, that is as good as anything else.
 

quote:

 There are a very few others in here who do understand the difference and maybe they will elaborate on it more for you.

In other words, you are saying:
"There are people in this discussion who agree with me and might be able to make sense of what I am saying"?

quote:

Its no simple issue to disect and frankly requires a lot of damn research and work that FEW are wiling to do.

In other words, you are saying:
 
"I cannot prove what I am saying, but I will make it appear that I have more information than I am letting on about so that I will not look silly" ?

quote:

  Its just much easier to accept what is handed to you and call it freedom and democracy, (democracy btw was despised and hated by the founding fathers), and then everyone goes their merry way clueless as to what life could be for this nation.

No - I am hardly afraid of confrontation and/or researching my material... how about you?

quote:

we are a nation of pied piper willing slaves all the way up to the highest intelligence levels because people have become complacent and could give a shit about the other guy or protecting the rights that the forefathers and real patriots died to give us.

Thank God you are here then - we need someone to defend our rights on a posting board, anonymously - and, without getting out of their chair.

quote:

Countdown with Keith Olbermann. Olbermann interviews Jonathan Turley a constitutional law expert who rips Bush a new asshole, pointing out how many of his cronies are former criminals who have no respect for the law or the Constitution of the United States.

And?
 
People express opinions daily.
 
Why, just consider you for an example... and, that amount of green unrecyclable alternative energy (and, not even through a Tesla coil!) matters naught, without a consideration towards action. Words are cheap (and, if you make that statement inclusive of the founding fathers, as is you normal course of rant -you would defame them in the comparisson)

quote:

THIS CLIP ALSO DIRECTLY APPLIES TO THE OP:
"The Constitution is just a piece of paper" - G.W. Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmc60JmaLbE

Yup... nice - U-Tube. Good clip.
 
Proof of nothing however.

quote:

Oh yeh and for those who think i am republican bashing wait till you see what i can provide for the democrat side of the fence, then everyone can accuse me of democrat bashing too!

I just think you are ranting to feel better about non-involvement.

quote:

i stand for liberty nothing else and those who would deny the people regarless of party deserve to be taken down.  period.

Thank you and all the other summer soldiers and sunshine patriots for services to your country.
 
~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

The technology was here since about 1910ish!  Free energy was a reality back then but snuffed out because the infrastructure was so expensive it required HUGE investors and not ma and pa types with a few pennies here and there

OK - a reminder about the proviso:

quote:

And, if you move on to a 'conspiracy theory mode' at this point, you have lost the discussion and left behind reality.

Transmission of energy in usable transmutable quantities through the air is only now becoming a reality... in 1910, Tesla had a theory...
...nothing more...
 
 - and, it failed all actual testing.
 
-repetetively
-and, wiht different people both funding and trying the testing

Thank you for flying with us - we hope you enjoyed your stay.
 
~J

giving us more bad research i see.

whos testing?   Tesla got scalar waves THEY couldnt. same tower.  sounds like bonafide tests to me.


Oh but you forgot about the boat that tesla drove around the harbor with remote control?

more bad info on your part.

Oh and now that people 100 yers later are geting smart enough to figure out teslas work you actually have them proving it WAS TRUE!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1426638491693188239&q=meyl

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4615804709108706714&q=meyl


but never ferar it wont be america who uses this wonderful discoveries.  we like oil and pollution and holding people ransom to pay pay pay pay pay pay pay pay!   we have enjoyed your kind of wisdom for the last 100 years and look at where it got us.

looks like it works to me!!!!

i suppose like most people out here seeing wont be believing for you either huh.... lol

Oh yeh and i hope you enjoy your red face!

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

<fast reply>

...if a country wishes to act from the moral high ground then they have to actually occupy it. The invasion of Iraq was justified by the governments involved on ethical grounds, in other words those governments took the moral high ground. Therefore Gitmo and torture are betrayals of that ethical position. Hypocritical basically.
Thus the moral authority of those governments is diminished.

If such a situation is acceptable to some then consider this........it basically allows the US to occupy any country they want. If ethics, morals or international law simply doesn't apply then what is to stop the US invading Canada? After all, we have a fair bit of oil up here too

Oh yes, and calling the prisoners of Gitmo 'illegal combatants' is meaningless semantic trickery. No such term exists in international law, it's merely a way for the current US regime to ignore treaty obligations. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Here you go:
 
Prove what you are saying...
 
You are saying that:
 
Reliable free energy capable of being transmitted through the air has been available since 1910...
 
Prove it using something besides disreputable sites, u-tube and other nonsense.
 
Cite text and study.
 
Demonstrate scientific proof beyond your conspiracy theory riddled mind.
 
Give us the meat, sweet.
 
Other than that... you are half baked and sincerely odd.
 
~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

The technology was here since about 1910ish!  Free energy was a reality back then but snuffed out because the infrastructure was so expensive it required HUGE investors and not ma and pa types with a few pennies here and there

OK - a reminder about the proviso:

quote:

And, if you move on to a 'conspiracy theory mode' at this point, you have lost the discussion and left behind reality.

Transmission of energy in usable transmutable quantities through the air is only now becoming a reality... in 1910, Tesla had a theory...
...nothing more...
 
 - and, it failed all actual testing.
 
-repetetively
-and, wiht different people both funding and trying the testing

Thank you for flying with us - we hope you enjoyed your stay.
 
~J

giving us more bad research i see.

whos testing?   Tesla got scalar waves THEY couldnt. same tower.  sounds like bonafide tests to me.


Oh but you forgot about the boat that tesla drove around the harbor with remote control?

more bad info on your part.

Oh and now that people 100 yers later are geting smart enough to figure out teslas work you actually have them proving it WAS TRUE!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1426638491693188239&q=meyl

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4615804709108706714&q=meyl


but never ferar it wont be america who uses this wonderful discoveries.  we like oil and pollution and holding people ransom to pay pay pay pay pay pay pay pay!   we have enjoyed your kind of wisdom for the last 100 years and look at where it got us.

looks like it works to me!!!!

i suppose like most people out here seeing wont be believing for you either huh.... lol

Oh yeh and i hope you enjoy your red face!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

I do not believe you and you and I are through with this.
 
Too many things you have said so far are lies... there is absolutely no veracity in any statement you could make any more.
 
~J