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RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 2:28:45 PM

Copulo

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Faramir, you said; So all this crap about how some fantasies are not ok is just that--hypocritical crap. The same people talking through the side of their mouth about anyone who gets off on the idea of fucking an adult who is in a little headspace, are the same ones who have brutal rape fantasies, snuff fantasies, torture fantasies, non-consensual imprisonment/slavery fantasies, etc. You're friggin' hypocrites.

No, that’s not what I said. I said anyone who gets off on imagining the person they are fucking is a little and not someone who gets off on the idea of fucking an adult who is in little headspace! theres a huge difference

You say that you got off on what your girlfriend wanted. You got off on what she wanted ? and you found the desire to please her fantasy exciting? or you got off on what actually happened to her?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 21

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 3:39:23 PM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo
Then I hope this is not part of what we consider to be sadism because this bit
and this is where I see certain predators coming into this field of things,
is concerning. One does not have to commit an act to be diagnosed as a violent offender.
Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexualized violence is enough to diagnose someone as a violent offender.
So, someone who really gets off on imagining hurting another person portrays and who gets sexually turned on by that thought/image that is being created, is not someone who would be necessarily safe with other people.
Like it or not thats the facts

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 22

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 3:41:27 PM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo
Then I hope this is not part of what we consider to be D/s because this bit
and this is where I see certain predators coming into this field of things,
is concerning. One does not have to commit an act to be diagnosed as a rapist.
Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving rape is enough to diagnose someone as a rapist.
So, someone who really gets off on imagining raping another person and who gets sexually turned on by that thought/image that is being created, is not someone who would be necessarily safe with your daughter.
Like it or not thats the facts

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 23

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 3:42:44 PM

Faramir

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Joined: 2/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo
Then I hope this is not part of what we consider to be D/s because this bit
and this is where I see certain predators coming into this field of things,
is concerning. One does not have to commit an act to be diagnosed as a murderer.
Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving death is enough to diagnose someone as a murderer.
So, someone who really gets off on imagining killing another person and who gets sexually turned on by that thought/image that is being created, is not someone who would be necessarily safe with your daughter.
Like it or not thats the facts

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 24

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 3:54:10 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo
So, someone who really gets off on imagining someone is the age their partner portrays themselves to be and who gets sexually turned on by that thought/image that is being created, is not someone who would be necessarily safe with your daughters.
Like it or not thats the facts

And it's completely false.

What about people who really get off on imagining someone being whipped until they bled?

Or raped?

We can enjoy tons of things in fantasies, get really turned on by them, even act them out with other people- and there's still nothing wrong or any actual danger to other people.

What about the "younger" ones in these relationships? Would you tell me that there's something wrong with me because I really get off on being a little one and having sex with a much older father figure? Am I a danger to older men?

See...this is one of those things that kind of bugs me.

Gloria Brane in "Come Hither" states "There is no scientific evidence that people can be cured of their sexual desires."

We constantly talk about accepting and understanding these "dark" desires people have.

Sadists love to hurt and torture people.
Masochists love to be hurt and tortured.
Rape fantasies.
Kidnapping fantasies
Fetishes have sexual fixations that range from feet to the shoes they wear...

A huge wide variety of obscure and twisted sexual desires that involve many things that if were to happen outside of the context of fantasy would be horrible unethical acts...

Yet but we focus on acceptance and understanding that these desires are a part of us and we shouldnt be thought of as bad people simply because we have them...

Then you get to the subject of people who have sexual desires about kids and animals and all the rules and understanding and science and psychology seem to go right out the fucking window...

Somehow all the things that apply to all other sexual desires dont seem to apply to people who have these desires...

Godforbid, someone with sexual desires towards children finds ethical satisfaction in fulfilling them threw roleplaying fantasies with other adults as opposed to fucking a kid.

_____________________________

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 25

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 3:57:11 PM

Faramir

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I should even be talking here--I should be in an institution somewhere. I have snuff fantasies, and have had them for more than 6 months. I'm a diagnosed murderer.
Like it or not, that's the facts.

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 26

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 4:11:59 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Godforbid, someone with sexual desires towards children finds ethical satisfaction in fulfilling them threw roleplaying fantasies with other adults as opposed to fucking a kid.

That is my point of view exactly. Perhaps in addition to jailing the offenders (I do think child molestion is a serious crime that should *definately* be punished) we should try to find these people a healthy outlet.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 27

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 4:12:38 PM

MadRabbit

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Jack Rinella has openly admited to having fantasies about "Pure Sadism" in his articles. Full blown, non consentual, pick them up and tie them up and make them cry, fantasies.

I guess he is eventually going to snap.

I am no psychologist, but based on experience and logic, I doubt simply having sexual fantasies over an extended period of time is enough to diagnose someone as being a clincal pedophile or sadist.

The Diagnostic and Statistics Manual of the American Physiatric Assocation concluded (back in the early 1900s when Blume was writing the book) that a sexual desire isnt a disorder until begins to impair a person's social adjustment or ability to form intimate relationships.

So whos right?

Does simply having repeated sexual desires of pedophilia mean that one is doomed to become a clincal pedophile...or are the sexual desires of pedophilia not a disorder until the person becomes a clinical pedophile?

A clinical pedophile being the same as a clinical sadist...someone who cants function in society without becomming overcome by their desire/obession/fixation with performing pain without consent or raping kids?

I wonder how many people secertly have fantasies about having sex with pre pube UM children and never get counted in statistics or even admit it to anyone...because they dont have the same problem with social function that a clinical pedophile has who goes out and kidnaps a child and gets plastered all over the news...

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/1/2007 4:17:19 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 28

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 8:56:27 PM

Laura

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My ex and I tried age play. Gorean too. Those were the only times my submission actually worked, for short spans of time. He just really could not Dom. But, I do have some understanding of it all. For him it was a chance for him to "cluck" over me as he called. it. Other wise I did not let him look after or fuss over me. He loved it when I got poison oak and he got to look after me when it wasn't just me submitting for a role play thing. In that case it was based in something real and it was nice. It's one of my better memories. :)

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Post #: 29

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 9:02:58 PM

Laura

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From: Ontario, Canada
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There is a line between having a fantasy and taking a step to bring it into reality. I have all kinds of fantasies which I would not want to experience in reality. As a fantasy I can enjoy them to their fullest. The reality would spoil the fantasy. I can see that. Someone else might not see that, or might get so caught up in the fantasy they don't try to see how it would be different as a reality. I think that is the difference between someone who needs serious help and someone like myself who just needs .... well, I'm not going to tell. ;)

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(in reply to Laura)

Post #: 30

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/1/2007 9:18:25 PM

FelinePersuasion

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The reasons and motives are so diverse from person to person, paernt or the adult child, that I doubt a workshop would be able to grasp the motives and desires of more than a handful of studied people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

I did go to a couple of workshops on age play just so that I could understand more about the dynamics of wanting to be a child but neither of these workshops discussed the dynamics of wanting to be a parent (strange really!)

_____________________________

Most of the time if it looks like BS, smells like BS, you probably should not t taste it to see if, in fact, it is BS.

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 31

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 2:36:42 AM

Copulo

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Perhaps then there are certain cravings, wants, desires that shouldn’t be spoken about!

I wonder how many potential female subs who had daughters would sit and listen to a potential dominant saying ‘ I want to treat you like a six year old because I have this continual fantasy about 6 year old females’!!!

I wonder how many would want to play breath play with someone who has continual snuff fantasies.

I did know a paedophile. He’s dead now thank goodness! I have seen his case notes and know exactly how he ticked. He spent a long time with this just as a fantasy and eventually managed to find a couple of others that shared that fantasy. Talking to others about it convinced him that it was fairly common and that gave them huge comfort. He/they did go on to commit many acts and eventually he was caught and got 7 years in the clink.

This is all about being cool isn’t it, its all about tolerating everything and anything!

You never answered my question Faramir. I asked a simple question and you went all the way round the houses not to answer me.
You put paedophilia under the same heading as sadism and D/s!!

Mad Rabbit should we accept these dark desires to have sex with small UM’s?

Edited to say.

Perhaps the people that have written to me about this should put their views up on the boards.

< Message edited by Copulo -- 6/2/2007 2:49:43 AM >

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 32

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 2:47:39 AM

Copulo

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Joined: 5/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

The reasons and motives are so diverse from person to person, paernt or the adult child, that I doubt a workshop would be able to grasp the motives and desires of more than a handful of studied people.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

I did go to a couple of workshops on age play just so that I could understand more about the dynamics of wanting to be a child but neither of these workshops discussed the dynamics of wanting to be a parent (strange really!)

Workshops are a good source of learning, especially if its just to open ones mind on something that perhaps they have been feeling a little nervous about.
How else do you suggest people learn and understand.

Perhaps they should all talk to Faramir!!!

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 33

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 2:53:10 AM

Elorin

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From: San Antonio, TX
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Copulo
If "Daddy" (i.e. Sir, i.e. M, i.e. my male partner) said that he does age play with me because he fantasizes about sex with children, I would seriously consider ending my relationship with him because I have an 8 year old daughter and I might find the risk too high. However, I know Daddy, I trust him with my life over and over again. He knows that the only thing in the world that matters enough to me to bring me back from suicidal apathy and depression is my daughter. He also values my love and trust. I might decide that I trust him enough not to abuse my trust or my daughter, and continue the relationship, as well as engaging in age play, knowing his fantasies.

I can't say for certain, as I'm not there.

However, I will say that I would much prefer honesty about fantasies and urgings than keeping them hidden. When someone is honest about their fantasies things can be done about it. Role play can be found if the fantasy can't be fulfilled in real life. Treatment can be found if the person is amenable and willing to see a compassionate counselor, and one can be found.

Nothing can be done if they are kept secret, and it is the secrets that tend to build up pressure and get to the boiling point.

~E

< Message edited by Elorin -- 6/2/2007 3:28:35 AM >

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(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 34

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 3:09:55 AM

Copulo

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Thanks Elorin for bringing us back on track here! You explain age play to you and your daddy in what can only be perceived in a healthy and good way and that is also how I perceive age play to be.

My concern with saying its ok to have fantasies about 6 year olds and everyone saying ‘yes why not, that’s cool’ is that giving the wrong sort a green light for go to certain predators. Lets not give the wrong sort comfort here. None of us know who scan these boards. We reach out to a huge audience of people and not everyone is grounded.

(in reply to Elorin)

Post #: 35

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 3:34:31 AM

Elorin

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From: San Antonio, TX
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Copulo
There was a time that I thought that someone engaging in consensual age play role play in a chat room was a green light for any "lurking" pedophiles who might see it. I thought that those who were just coming by might think that we were condoning pedophilia or saying it is ok.

And here I am, a practicing age player, with a Daddy who makes me very happy, years down the road.

I think that some people have fantasies. And I don't think that we can all necessarily control what we fantasize about, what makes us hard or wet. I'm not someone who thinks nature vs. nurture in sexuality, I think it is nature AND nurture, and that we cannot undo nature nor the formative influences of childhood.

I think that having sex with pre-pubescent children is wrong. That is my personal value.

I will not say that I think fantasizing about it is wrong.

I will say that what marks us as mentally healthy or ill includes our ability to recognize social limitations and respect them. Acting on fantasies about pre-pubescent children goes against the social mores of the US, the UK, and most European countries. I'm pretty sure it goes against the mores of Australia and New Zealand also. I can't say for ALL cultures. I can say for mine, sex with pre-pubescent minors is unacceptable, illegal, and socially immoral.

And I still can't say that having the fantasy is wrong. Whether the DSM-IV (got one on my shelf!) says that just for THINKING it makes you a pedophile or not, just thinking it doesn't make you bad, evil, or wrong.

~Elorin

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 36

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 4:06:56 AM

adoracat

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i discussed this with Sir yesterday. Sir is Daddy to me. he knows what a miserable waste of space my sperm donor is...and as he put it "every little girl adores her Daddy. it should be the most special loving relationship she ever has with a man. he should love her, protect her, cherish her, guide her, and above all else, *never cause her harm*."

he's my Daddy because he does those things. ageplay in *our* relationship has really nothing to do with it.

when he got here yesterday, we hadnt seen each other in a week and a half. we were happy to be together again, and when i opened the door, he could see immediately that i'd been crying. NOTHING else mattered to him at that moment than comforting me, seeing what was wrong, and could he fix it. (i'd been sorting through some papers, and found something i'd forgotten about that tugged strongly at my heartstrings and made me cry).

i suppose there are all sorts of DaddyDoms out there, and all sorts of ways they interact with their subs. but this is how Sir and i interact, and both of us are happy with it

kitten, who is listening to long-needed rain and getting sleepier....

(in reply to Elorin)

Post #: 37

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 4:45:30 AM

WhiplashSmile

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Here's a link to Little Girl Lost's website..
http://www.mybdsm.com/pages/Vamp/lgl/intro.html

She covers a lot of the aspects of AGE PLAY and she has wrote a number of articles.

One of my favorites Age/Roles she has listed is Goth Girl (13-15 year old)
I also like the High School and School Girl roles as well. The other roles
don't have much appeal to me.

The thing is that she experiments with different Ages and Roles.

I've explored Age play a little in the past, and this is something I'm considering exploring a little more. I find myself torn in a couple of directions at the moment in terms of what I'm looking for in a partner. Daddy/Daughter, Master/slave or Dom couple. I know what I'm looking for out of each of these.

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 38

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 5:02:36 AM

Indemnis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

I did know a paedophile. He’s dead now thank goodness! I have seen his case notes and know exactly how he ticked. He spent a long time with this just as a fantasy and eventually managed to find a couple of others that shared that fantasy. Talking to others about it convinced him that it was fairly common and that gave them huge comfort. He/they did go on to commit many acts and eventually he was caught and got 7 years in the clink.

Lady, everyone who has these fantasies is not going to act on them in an unhealthy way. Just because you happened to know a pedo at one point doesn't mean every single person who has these fantasies is the same guy. Generalise much?

_____________________________

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(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 39

RE: A question I need to ask about age play - 6/2/2007 5:12:38 AM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

Mad Rabbit should we accept these dark desires to have sex with small UM’s?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

My concern with saying its ok to have fantasies about 6 year olds and everyone saying ‘yes why not, that’s cool’ is that giving the wrong sort a green light for go to certain predators.

Should we accept people going out and raping kids? I firmly say "No" as will most people.

Should we accept people going out and murdering people? No

Should we accept people going out and raping people? No

But where do all these forms of play stem from?

Rape play...maybe from a fantasy to be raped or to rape.
Breath play...maybe from a fantasy to be suffocated or to suffocate
Sadism...maybe from a fantasy to make people cry and inflict pain on them
Masochism...maybe from a fantasy to be hurt and to suffer...
Snuff play...maybe from a fantasy to kill or be killed.

People have the fantasies because they have desires. Without desire, there would be no fantasy and without fantasy, people wouldnt want to go out and participating in all the kind of "play".

To think that people who are into ethical sadism dont fantasize about hurting people or even...hurting people in a real non consent situation doesnt ring true to me at all. Many sadists I have talked to share these kind of fantasies with me. No more than people who are into rape play dont fantasize about actually being raped. I have sadistic tendacies and I can assure you the fantasy of "Pure Sadism" isnt one that is foreign to me.

I cerainly dont fantasize about the "play"...consentual, pre negotiated scenes where women are just pretending to be controlled by me. I fantasize and have desires about actually controlling women.

Should we past harsh judgements over these people based on fanatical views of right and wrong and say "Its wrong to have these desires!" when its been widely stated by modern psychiarists that there is no way to change a person's sexual desires?

Having desires and fealings dont make a person wrong in my eyes, because both arent subject to rationality. Actions determine whether someone is ethical or unethical. I have times when I feal like walking up to someone and punching them in the face. I have times when someone irritates me so bad I think to myself "Gee, I can just kill that person" and an image of me killing them will flash threw my brain.

You cant control how you feal or what you desire, but you can control what you do based on those actions or fealings. Sadists cant stop their fantasies and desires about hurting people and making them cry in the context of "Pure Sadism", but they find a safe and sane outlet for it in the realm of ethical sadism.

This is has nothing to do with being cool or "tolerating everyone". Nobody is encouraging that we go out and act our fantasies to the complete fullness and extreme of them.

But this idea that we should tell them its not okay to simply have the desires and make them feal guilty for something thats not in the spectrum of human rational is false and not solving anything. All its doing is creating some a lifetime of guilt and anguish over internal wiring they cant change and doing absolutely nothing to stop them from committing the unethical acts.

Not accepting or accepting the desire will have zero impact on the desire itself if it cannot be cured by any modern psychiatric means. Finding an outlet for the desire thats ethical so it doesnt lead to unethical behavior is a solution.

Putting up a big unwelcome sign to anyone who is into age play simply because it stems from pedophilia and exiling them is only going to make them go out and find an unethical means to satisfy that desire.

So...yes....we should accept people who have desires for pedophilia...just as much as we accept people who have desires and fantasies about rape, snuff, suffocation, torture, castration, branding, forced slavery and whatever dark desire the human brain can conjur.

But we shouldnt accept people who actaully go out and have sex with children, rape, kill, suffocate, torture, castrate, brand, or force people into slavery.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

We reach out to a huge audience of people and not everyone is grounded.

Then we should never talk about snuff, rape, suffocation, or sadistic desires as being okay because it might encourage people to do unethical things.

As I read your posts, this seems to be more about your personal crusade against pedophilia and not about sexual desires in a logical and scientific way.

I am a bit annoyed how it seems you arent even really reading what I am trying to say and trying to brand me as someone in support of fucking children.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/2/2007 5:18:14 AM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 40

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