quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: maisyjayne
Faramir I wonder if you might do us all the honour of answering  me this, When playing with your girl what exactly was it that made you insanely hot??  maybe Im not reading your post in the way you intended! but I don't feel this explained to us whether you got hot over what happened to her or you got hot over helping her with this fantasy. I think these are two very different things.

What happened to her didn't arouse me--it made me sad, angry and wish somehow I could help her.  I wept for the child she was, for the harm she suffered, and even more than the abuse, the silencing her family did to keep that abuse secret.  That struck me as even more sinful and more damaging than the abuse itself.

What was hot was our interaction, her response to me.  When I screamed at her, knocked her around the room, she responded with a sexual frenzy and devoted compliance that touched my sexuality exactly and perfectly in the right spot.  Not close, not sorta, but right where I am.  When I grabbed her by the throat, yanked this lithe young dancer in the air and slammed her against the wall, jammed my hand under her school skirt and found her "knickers" soaked, saw in her eyes complete acquiesence, I was on fire in response.  For most of the night she was shaking in terror and lust, sick with a desire to be good for me, fuck back, suck, spread her cheeks fo rme, do anything.  That incredible, compliant and sexualized response makes me catch on fire also.

I don't even know what that was--it wasn't ageplay.  My ageplay, what I fantasize about, and have role-played with partners, is she's my 17 year old daughter, sexual and in love with Daddy, so hot for her Daddy she fantasizes about his cock at school and masturbates in the bathroom stalls thinking about what it would be like to please him.  Totally hakneyed but man that works for me.

What I did with this girl was more like rape-play than age-play to me, although she was clearly in a little space.

The bottom line for me here is that Copulo is full of crap, making this arbitrary distiction between a kink she doesn't have and kink's she has.  I do fantasize a lot about teenage girls--that does not make me a rapist.  Two nights ago an"18" year old girl contacted me here at CM, we chatted for a while, turns out she's 16.  I'm not a rapist, and since a 16 year old girl can't give consent, that was the end of our conversation.

You know what the punchline is?  I looked at her profile today--she's owned now with a Master.  I wonder if he is as open as I am about ageplay?  Or did she decide to lie?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

My concern is this- what you describe sounds very much like a situation of traumatic dissociation/regression. IF that's what it was, your partner is/was an abuse victim, and your rough play triggered a non-volitional response, activating a dissociated part connected to an earlier episode of abuse. This is actually a pretty common occurence, and my concern is not to accuse you of impropriety or condemn anyone involved in anyway, it's merely to suggest that however much fun and satisfaction either or both participants in such a situation may recieve, it tends strongly to be part of an ongoing pattern that reinforces the original damage. The immediate effects may feel wonderful all around, but by becoming connnected to that dynamic, you can easily (to put it gently) become connected in her unconscious with the negative aspects of her abuse as well as the 'hot' ones, which tends to fuck up any relationship.

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ORIGINAL: stella40


Now really boys and girls, is it really so serious to get so wound up over?

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ORIGINAL: Copulo
What I have said is that certain peoples motives for wanting, desiring age play may not be as savoury as we would like to think.

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And I have not said anything of the sort. I have said that I understand age play to a degree and I have said that most people into age play are doing it for the right reasons.

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Like you I think there are many thousands of age players that are doing this with good intention but unfortunately there is a minority that are not.

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ORIGINAL: stella40

Wow! What a heavy thread!

Personally speaking I'm somewhat surprised that we're on the fourth page of a thread about age play and it seems that nobody's even thought of or mentioned TA or transactional analysis.

I'm talking about the psychoanalytic theory of psychology developed by psychiatrist Eric Berne in the late 1950's.

This is a revision of Freud's concept of the human psyche as being made up from the id, ego and super-ego. Berne replaced this with three 'ego states' - the Parent, Child and Adult states - these being largely shaped through our childhood experiences.

Now getting back to the basic concept of BDSM and D/s we are, are we not, talking about close interpersonal relationships based on the playing of roles? Isn't that what separates BDSM and D/s from vanilla? In BDSM and D/s we take on a role and take part in various interactions, games and rituals which we don't in what we call vanilla life. BDSM and D/s is 'play', vanilla is reality.

Isn't this the very basic distinction we expect from others, even newbies and beginners? Then how come some of you, with all your profiles and relationships and experience and roles and such defined are still struggling to make that very basic distinction?

And much of our interaction and the role-playing we do can be very easily analyzed through this transactional analysis model, where the Dominant plays the role in the Parental ego state and the submissive plays the role in the Child ego state.

Isn't this the basis of our roles - teacher/schoolgirl, doctor/nurse, doctor/patient, mummy/little girl (consider sissy maids), nanny/adult baby, Master or Mistress/slave, Lady/maid, etc?

And isn't that precisely what any decent Pro-Domme offers?

For those who wish to read up more about transactional analysis please visit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis

Now really boys and girls, is it really so serious to get so wound up over?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: maisyjayne
Faramir I wonder if you might do us all the honour of answering  me this, When playing with your girl what exactly was it that made you insanely hot??  maybe Im not reading your post in the way you intended! but I don't feel this explained to us whether you got hot over what happened to her or you got hot over helping her with this fantasy. I think these are two very different things.

What happened to her didn't arouse me--it made me sad, angry and wish somehow I could help her.  I wept for the child she was, for the harm she suffered, and even more than the abuse, the silencing her family did to keep that abuse secret.  That struck me as even more sinful and more damaging than the abuse itself.

What was hot was our interaction, her response to me.  When I screamed at her, knocked her around the room, she responded with a sexual frenzy and devoted compliance that touched my sexuality exactly and perfectly in the right spot.  Not close, not sorta, but right where I am.  When I grabbed her by the throat, yanked this lithe young dancer in the air and slammed her against the wall, jammed my hand under her school skirt and found her "knickers" soaked, saw in her eyes complete acquiesence, I was on fire in response.  For most of the night she was shaking in terror and lust, sick with a desire to be good for me, fuck back, suck, spread her cheeks fo rme, do anything.  That incredible, compliant and sexualized response makes me catch on fire also.

I don't even know what that was--it wasn't ageplay.  My ageplay, what I fantasize about, and have role-played with partners, is she's my 17 year old daughter, sexual and in love with Daddy, so hot for her Daddy she fantasizes about his cock at school and masturbates in the bathroom stalls thinking about what it would be like to please him.  Totally hakneyed but man that works for me.

What I did with this girl was more like rape-play than age-play to me, although she was clearly in a little space.

Thank you for your explanation and for answering my question, this now makes so much more sense but the following part really confuses me,

The bottom line for me here is that Copulo is full of crap, making this arbitrary distiction between a kink she doesn't have and kink's she has.  I do fantasize a lot about teenage girls--that does not make me a rapist.

 I just wonder why you have felt the need to sling personal insults at someone who just wanted to hear opinions, to say someone is "full of crap" is rather defensive I feel. Do you need to feel defensive?

To have differing points of view is good, and all these different perspectives put into the mix  helps us all see things from other points of view, Would it not be simpler to discuss and not act as if there is a personal vendetta against someone who has been open enough to start a discussion on a controversial subject.
 
 Two nights ago an"18" year old girl contacted me here at CM, we chatted for a while, turns out she's 16.  I'm not a rapist, and since a 16 year old girl can't give consent, that was the end of our conversation.

You know what the punchline is?  I looked at her profile today--she's owned now with a Master.  I wonder if he is as open as I am about ageplay?  Or did she decide to lie?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin


I think that in most of your posts you have said that you don't want to encourage fantasies of sex with actual underage children out of hand. However, the tone of many of your posts comes across that anyone who has those fantasies is wrong, and that is where I disagree. I think that it may be hard to accept - undoubtedly. I think that as a mother, being cautious about taking someone who admits to those fantasies into your home and meeting your young female children is wise.

Then please could you point out to me where those tones are. Have I said at any point or implied at any point that anyone who has age play as a fantasy is wrong?
On the contrary I have continually repeated that ‘age play’ is fine

But saying that ageplayers who admit to those fantasies are not doing it for the right reasons? I disagree. I think that someone with actual fantasies about sex with children who recognizes it is unhealthy and attempts to control it through consensual age play with another adult is doing it for many many RIGHT reasons. They recognize it is not right to act out those fantasies in truth, they are admitting who and what they are, and they are taking steps to prevent themselves from becoming dangers to children. And I think that anyone who engages in age play with them will likely have good intentions. Some will be honestly clueless and have no awareness. But to choose to engage with someone like that in age play as a conscious choice to help them control desires that are unacceptable, unpalatable,  and immoral in our current society? I think those intentions are very good.

A real paedophile, be that potential or ongoing is not into kink, neither is it a fetish . Paedophilia is a personality disorder and as such is a mental illness.
There is very specific help for paedophiles that needs to be dealt with by experts. Paedophiles are dangerous around our UM's


I won't say that I wouldn't encourage such a person to a good therapist also, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater because you personally have reservations about interacting with one of those individuals.

~E

quote:

ORIGINAL: maisyjayne
I just wonder why you have felt the need to sling personal insults at someone who just wanted to hear opinions, to say someone is "full of crap" is rather defensive I feel. Do you need to feel defensive?

To have differing points of view is good, and all these different perspectives put into the mix  helps us all see things from other points of view, Would it not be simpler to discuss and not act as if there is a personal vendetta against someone who has been open enough to start a discussion on a controversial subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo
Then please could you point out to me where those tones are. Have I said at any point or implied at any point that anyone who has age play as a fantasy is wrong?

One does not have to commit an act to be diagnosed as a pedophile
Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent UM or Ums  (generally age 13 years or younger) is enough to diagnose someone as a pedophile.
So, someone who really gets off on imagining someone is the age their partner portrays themselves to be and who gets sexually turned on by that thought/image that is being created, is not someone who would be necessarily  safe with your daughters.
Like it or not thats the facts

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ORIGINAL: Copulo

Wow Im kind of knocked back by your intelligent response!!!

Did I say everyone?
Not everyone will act out but what if one does? Just one, that’s all that’s needed.

Give out one liners much do we?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin
I think that in most of your posts you have said that you don't want to encourage fantasies of sex with actual underage children out of hand. However, the tone of many of your posts comes across that anyone who has those fantasies is wrong, and that is where I disagree. I think that it may be hard to accept - undoubtedly. I think that as a mother, being cautious about taking someone who admits to those fantasies into your home and meeting your young female children is wise.

Then please could you point out to me where those tones are. Have I said at any point or implied at any point that anyone who has age play as a fantasy is wrong?
On the contrary I have continually repeated that ‘age play’ is fine

quote:

A real paedophile, be that potential or ongoing is not into kink, neither is it a fetish . Paedophilia is a personality disorder and as such is a mental illness.
There is very specific help for paedophiles that needs to be dealt with by experts. Paedophiles are dangerous around our UM's

quote:

One does not have to commit an act to be diagnosed as a pedophile

quote:

Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent UM or Ums  (generally age 13 years or younger) is enough to diagnose someone as a pedophile.

quote:

So, someone who really gets off on imagining someone is the age their partner portrays themselves to be and who gets sexually turned on by that thought/image that is being created, is not someone who would be necessarily  safe with your daughters.

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ORIGINAL: Elorin

Condemning someone for just thinking thoughts means that all of us should be condemned for any kink at all because of where it might go if we had no impulse control whatsoever. 
~E

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

Having said that, I can still see why there is greater concern about paedophilia-related issues than about plain old S and M- in the former, the prospective victims are more vulnerable, and in fact it's a huge social problem.

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I don't believe that blanket condemnation of people with these 'thoughts' is an effective protection for children, but I have seen too much damage caused by paedophiles to say that they are in any sense 'okay' either.

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Once a person crosses the line from thought to action in this area, they are beyond any compassion from me.

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ORIGINAL: stella40 Wow! What a heavy thread! Personally speaking I'm somewhat surprised that we're on the fourth page of a thread about age play and it seems that nobody's even thought of or mentioned TA or transactional analysis. I'm talking about the psychoanalytic theory of psychology developed by psychiatrist Eric Berne in the late 1950's. This is a revision of Freud's concept of the human psyche as being made up from the id, ego and super-ego. Berne replaced this with three 'ego states' - the Parent, Child and Adult states - these being largely shaped through our childhood experiences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40  Now getting back to the basic concept of BDSM and D/s we are, are we not, talking about close interpersonal relationships based on the playing of roles? Isn't that what separates BDSM and D/s from vanilla? In BDSM and D/s we take on a role and take part in various interactions, games and rituals which we don't in what we call vanilla life. BDSM and D/s is 'play', vanilla is reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40: And much of our interaction and the role-playing we do can be very easily analyzed through this transactional analysis model, where the Dominant plays the role in the Parental ego state and the submissive plays the role in the Child ego state. Isn't this the basis of our roles - teacher/schoolgirl, doctor/nurse, doctor/patient, mummy/little girl (consider sissy maids), nanny/adult baby, Master or Mistress/slave, Lady/maid, etc?  And isn't that precisely what any decent Pro-Domme offers?