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RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/2/2007 10:39:32 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Valyraen

Part of human nature is the desire to see ourselves as "better than" another...


Some desire to perceive themselves as better than others.

Some desire to strive to be better than themselves, and couldn't care less what the rest of the pack thinks about it.

quote:

Differences are scary...


Some differences we perceive negatively. I find it a bit wierd when someone, unlike myself, thinks it's okay to curb random people in an area; disturbing if they're thinking about doing it; worth stopping if they are doing it anywhere near me. Not scary, though.

Some differences we perceive positively. I think it's cool when I hear about people doing things in a radically different way, even when it doesn't make sense to me. It gives me something to think about (like a rubix cube), and reassures me that the world has more wonders in store for me yet.

quote:

and no matter how accepting, how tolerant someone is, there's always a difference radical enough to make you uncomfortable, particularly in the world of BDSM.


In my experiences, what gets most people scared, uncomfortable or outright enraged, is not the radical differences, so much as the minor ones. It's kind of like what horror film makers say ... take something familiar, and twist it a little bit, and you get something really disturbing. In this department, I'm guilty, though I try to improve on that.

I don't think this is unique to BDSM, though. Just look at Protestants vs Catholics.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Valyraen)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/2/2007 10:49:00 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

To determine beauty, someone has to place a value on ugly.


I'd have to disagree with you.

Well, obviously, someone had to. It's teh IntarW3b!

But, seriously, I think that's a flawed approach. I'm not sure it is, but I think it is. It doesn't work for me in either case. It's kind of like what I (much too often) say about Nietzsche's writings. You're starting with the bad, and defining the good as its complement. I start with the good, and view things as having a relative presence or absence of this. Occasionally, I will make a bad, too, but that's a seperate quantity, which can sometimes overlap. Of course, my approach may equally well be the flawed one.

For me, there is beauty versus lack of beauty. Ugly is too colloquial for me, most of the time, and when I use it, it generally refers to something else than a lack of beauty per se.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/2/2007 10:50:13 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I enjoy those among us that think NOT only is their kink better than mine.
BUT,
they are also going to attempt to change/ my views or my mind on my kink.
I love the audacity of some people, I often wonder if they really believe what they are typing. 
As IF you could actually change what I want, enjoy or what I am?
It really does take all kinds in this world, and you see many of the "kinds" around here.
 

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/2/2007 10:51:02 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/2/2007 10:56:44 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The things we do affect other people's lives; it stands to reason that people have strong opinions about them.


Personally, my strong opinions are about these people's right to do their thing, not about what they are doing and how. I may, and sometimes do, have an opinion on what they are doing and how. But what I always have a very strong opinion about, is their right to choose, and their right to claim equal validity for their choices.

That's why I sometimes play the devil's advocate for stuff I don't do, or don't like.

Again, usual stuff about consent applies. For instance, the one about putting crickets in someone's vagina ... that I have strong opinions about; crickets cannot consent to that. But whether they put a bucketload of polonium in there, I couldn't care less, if both of them find that radiation poisoning rocks their world in a good way.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/2/2007 11:04:41 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

And don't go dissing my kink for Germanically-overblown sentence length, either.


I, for one, would not care to go dissing anyone's particular kinks, including ones regarding excessively long sentences, although there is the bit about not including other people in one's particular kinks, in which regard I am fortunately not finding anything objectionable in being included in said kink, although some might, but I do find that certain related kinks- such as ones regarding spelling and grammar- are ones I do not approve of being involved with, and as such cannot condone, as such activities are of a nonconsensual nature, which we are all, apparently, in agreement the unacceptability of, as voiced on this thread, elsewhere, and by the last word of the "safe, sane and consensual" credo; as such, please continue including me in your particular kink about long sentences, but be aware that others may find it objectionable to be nonconsensually involved in it, although, of course, it may be said that there is implicit consent in being on a board, where, after all, anyone can say just about anything that does not violate the ToS, meaning that one knows there is a risk of being exposed to such kinks.

But what I really want to know, is:

Was it as good for you as it was for me?


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/2/2007 11:09:06 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

On the topic of the thread, I suspect that part of the reason people need to trash the kink of other people, and vaunt their own as being The Ultimate In Kinkness might have something to do with their own personal need for validation.


Nod. This is reflected in the fact that both conventional stages of "moral" development rely, in part, on external validation from the desired "in-group".

quote:

Human beings tend to be a pack animal, and in a situation where a person might have mixed feelings about their behavior, being surrounded by a group of other people doing the same behavior may be comforting to them.


Indeed. Exclusion is a common tool in enforcing groupthink and social harmony. And differing opinions may be seen as some as being a challenge of, or even an attack on, their own views. Some people are very fragile in that regard, requiring perfect assent to be able to maintain their peace of mind, and needing to lash out at any dissenters until they leave the range of perception, or until they stop dissenting.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/2/2007 11:27:31 PM   
Wildnfreehrt2004


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


I've just been looking over threads on subjects as compelling as: "Anyone who considers having a mentor is psychologically, morally and legally incompetent to give consent" and "Anyone who explores the small side of the parent/child dynamic should be sent into the outer darkness (because they take tax dollars from starving children."

Here's a question for the group:

Do you suppose the world would come to a fiery end if this forum went 24 hours without a thread about how My kink is better than Your kink?

Or--more to the point, about how Your kink is worse than My kink (and of course You are worse than Me for being different than I am.)


Second question:

Do you think we'll ever get a chance to find out?





In an ideal world yes - this post made me go searching for a couple of quotes; I only found one easily and is obvious:
You cannot find a rule that is always appropriate to be lived by everyone in exactly the same way. There is no law that broad that in its rigidity that it would be appropriate.

the other one I'll try to paraphrase - In order for someone to win, no one has to lose therefore competition is no longer needed. I wish society as a whole was ready to understand/embrace this.

And then my thought: Once I figured out that the worst that life could do to me is kill me, and in my beliefs that is not a bad thing (I'm ready to go home), then there is little left to fear. Fear isn't easy to get rid of, but it gets easier with practice.

All of these are helpful in letting go of judging others in what they do. As noted, I do have my opinions on what is right or wrong for me, but I try not to interfere with people's choices until they touch me/my world. I might discuss a point intellectually, but I don't advocate trying to control another person's choices.

I might make one exception and admit kids are my soapbox - they who have no voice need voices to speak for them.

Wildy
seeking Utopia

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/2/2007 11:44:15 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildnfreehrt2004

Fear isn't easy to get rid of, but it gets easier with practice.


Fear is situational. Although, of course, the situation may be imaginary, or there may be a fear response to a situation that doesn't bear fearing. Either way, resolving a situation, or changing the perception of it, takes away fear, in my experience.

quote:

I might discuss a point intellectually, but I don't advocate trying to control another person's choices.




quote:

I might make one exception and admit kids are my soapbox - they who have no voice need voices to speak for them.


Does this extend to animals? Just wondering, because they don't have one either. And an adult monkey used in medical research is in almost all respects the same as a child of about 5 years. Darker and longer hair, somewhat different facial shape and posture, and vocal chords that are unsuited for speech, yes, but largely the same mind.

Kids are an interesting challenge, ethically speaking. You either have to have a proxy for them- the pros and cons I won't go into as they would be OT- or you have to let them make their own choices (again, pro/con is OT). The former raises the question of who should serve as this proxy, what choices the proxy may make (and who determines that), and for how long the proxy should remain a proxy. The latter, by contrast, raises other, more obvious, concerns.

quote:

Wildy
seeking Utopia


Aswad
fleeing Utopia


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Wildnfreehrt2004)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 12:04:57 AM   
Wildnfreehrt2004


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildnfreehrt2004

Fear isn't easy to get rid of, but it gets easier with practice.


Fear is situational. Although, of course, the situation may be imaginary, or there may be a fear response to a situation that doesn't bear fearing. Either way, resolving a situation, or changing the perception of it, takes away fear, in my experience.

quote:

I might discuss a point intellectually, but I don't advocate trying to control another person's choices.




quote:

I might make one exception and admit kids are my soapbox - they who have no voice need voices to speak for them.


Does this extend to animals? Just wondering, because they don't have one either. And an adult monkey used in medical research is in almost all respects the same as a child of about 5 years. Darker and longer hair, somewhat different facial shape and posture, and vocal chords that are unsuited for speech, yes, but largely the same mind.

Kids are an interesting challenge, ethically speaking. You either have to have a proxy for them- the pros and cons I won't go into as they would be OT- or you have to let them make their own choices (again, pro/con is OT). The former raises the question of who should serve as this proxy, what choices the proxy may make (and who determines that), and for how long the proxy should remain a proxy. The latter, by contrast, raises other, more obvious, concerns.

quote:

Wildy
seeking Utopia


Aswad
fleeing Utopia



All good points - and if Utopia were defined as Logan's Run or The Island, you'd have to eat my dust or try to catch up! But with the dumbing down of the world - or the expanding chasm between those who can use technology/stay informedlearn and those barely able to graduate from high school with an 8th grade level of education... aren't we getting a lil too close to that kind of Utopia for comfort? I mean... look at who got an 8 yr presidency?

Okay, animals are welcome on my soapbox. And again,  your points are valid - absolute power corrupts absolutely so no one person could/should have the job for long (kinda like our presidency) and yet too much committee and nothing is ever decided or gets done. Who among is qualified? How do we determine that, test for it, monitor it? Who among us is qualified to determine who is qualified?

Wildy
off in search of aspirin...  :

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 6:39:48 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Fast reply to no one in particular. 

For me, i see motive being of more importantce than the act itself, i see limits based on likely consequences rather than specific activities.  What is the motive??  An activity with the motive to harm is bad the same activity with the motive to please or excite is good.  Yes, it's not always so black and white and i get weary of having to add qualifiers and disclaimers to every post.  Which brings us back to motive... i never post with the intention of flaming or harming or badgering anyone... but it's possible that someone will not take my comments the way they were intended and i can't allow myself to get upset over that for which i have no control.




_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Wildnfreehrt2004)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 10:11:33 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I'm still confused on the starving taxpayer money line. How is me being told I'm a bad girl and being put across his knee equal to stealing taxpayer money?

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 10:29:03 AM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
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quote:

Noah: 
Hey now! Disrupting the time space continuum ... there's a kink for you. Though methinks some may deem that unacceptable edge-play. But then again who cares what people who say "deem" and "methinks" think?

Not that we don't have every right to our word-kinks, a'course.



Indubitably

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 11:21:16 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
I've just been looking over threads on subjects as compelling as: "Anyone who considers having a mentor is psychologically, morally and legally incompetent to give consent"
Do you suppose the world would come to a fiery end if this forum went 24 hours without a thread about how My kink is better than Your kink?

Or--more to the point, about how Your kink is worse than My kink (and of course You are worse than Me for being different than I am.)


Responding because you chose to use one of my threads as your example. My thread, however, did not have anything to do with what people choose to do as a "kink". I would have no issues whatsoever with someone who had a mentoring kink. Nowhere did I say that "Anyone who considers having a mentor is psychologically, morally and legally incompetent to give consent" I was speaking specifically about people who state that they "need" to have someone else make decisions in their life because they are incapable or can not trust themselves to do so. The question was that if they are indeed incapable to make their own decisions, can we then assume they are capable of consent.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 1:08:29 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
I've just been looking over threads on subjects as compelling as: "Anyone who considers having a mentor is psychologically, morally and legally incompetent to give consent"
Do you suppose the world would come to a fiery end if this forum went 24 hours without a thread about how My kink is better than Your kink?

Or--more to the point, about how Your kink is worse than My kink (and of course You are worse than Me for being different than I am.)


Responding because you chose to use one of my threads as your example. My thread, however, did not have anything to do with what people choose to do as a "kink". I would have no issues whatsoever with someone who had a mentoring kink. Nowhere did I say that "Anyone who considers having a mentor is psychologically, morally and legally incompetent to give consent" I was speaking specifically about people who state that they "need" to have someone else make decisions in their life because they are incapable or can not trust themselves to do so. The question was that if they are indeed incapable to make their own decisions, can we then assume they are capable of consent.


So it was primarily about the assumptions we can make? Thanks for the clarification. Since it was your topic I'd rather discuss it in your terms, and you just said above that the question is, under certain conditions "whether we can assume..."

Is there some compelling need in your life to make make assumptions about the the ability of all or any of these people to consent?

Maybe there is. I mean, what the fuck: rock on. I don't know what your life is like.

Did your thread give you all the data you needed or are you still busy tuning your assumptions about any number of people you never have and perhaps never will meet, some living and some hypothetical--and perhaps a few you actually know, as well?

Would you care to share with us the basis of your own need (or is it just a desire?) to make assumptions about people? 'Cause I mean it seems to me that in any particularcase where consent really mattered to you personally you would have the option of actually exploring the issue with the person involved rather than relying upon assumptions.

Okay. So next maybe you can go stand in front of the car repair shop and start a discussion on whether the people who "need" a mechanic to make decisions for them (potentially life-and-death decisions, not only for the driver/ owner but for all possible future passengers, nearby pedestrians, etc) ... start a conversation on whether these people can be assumed to be able to consent--explicity, in writing, on the work-order--to the repairs and expenses involved.

While you're at it you may visit the hospital and start a conversation about whether General Practitioners who call in specialist colleagues for consults can be assumed to be able to give consent to procedures to be done or not done to their patients. And if they can't, well, should they be allowed to practice medecine at all? Then again, what about these patients? Can they consent to the procedure themselves once we know that they were so weak/lazy/backward/unenlightened as to ask another, presumably more knowledgeable person for help?

Maybe the only ethical surgery is that which we perform upon ourselves. Maybe your thread will reveal this Truth.

But never mind those piddling matters. First we really need to dispense with the far more imposing issue of whether some subbie can consent to have his or her dom pick out her outfits every day--in cases where the subbie states a "need" for this help.

"I never can decide, Sir, between the mauve and the puce. I need your help"

"Well if you really need my help then maybe you can't be assumed to be able to consent to my help. According to what I gleaned from mistoferin's recent thread: it sucks to be you, bitch."


We could go on endlessly with examples of what is commonly understood as delegation. The fact is that each of us delegates some decisions and makes other decisions with varying degrees of independence. We delegate decisions upward, downward, and sideways. That is not a careless generalization. It is a very careful one describing what seems to me to be a self-evident aspect of the human condition.

You said: "I was speaking specifically about people who state that they "need" to have someone else make decisions in their life because they are incapable or can not trust themselves to do so."

... which seems to describe to me a situation which might or might not in any given case be structural to the power exchange (a major aspect of kink for some of us) in the relationship.

Therefore, your claim: "My thread, however, did not have anything to do with what people choose to do as a "kink"," was somewhere between fatuous and myopic, unless I'm mistaken and power exchange has nothing whatsoever to do with kink. And since all of the cases referred to were found in explicitly kinky contexts, I don't see how your little disclaimer can hold any water at all.

You were indeed asking questions about what other people may choose to incorporate into their personal kink life, whether you happened to notice what you were saying or not.

I honestly think your question can be adequately dealt with in its thread, though.

What I'm interested in talking about here is whether there isn't anything more worthwhile and compelling we might do in these forums than climb up on our high horses and question the autonomy (maturity, moral worth, etc.) of other adult human beings who choose to go about their kink differently than we do.

Please note that I did not question your right to post about whatever you care to, nor did I indicate that your comments are unwelcome here.

I'll be sure to check your thread later to see whether you've gotten your assumptions about those people all in an orderly row yet.



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 1:31:22 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildnfreehrt2004

All good points - and if Utopia were defined as Logan's Run or The Island, you'd have to eat my dust or try to catch up!


Thanks. But, with regard to eating your dust? I'd be fleeing in a hijacked car or something, not on foot. Eat my exhaust. ~lol~ 

quote:

But with the dumbing down of the world - or the expanding chasm between those who can use technology/stay informedlearn and those barely able to graduate from high school with an 8th grade level of education... aren't we getting a lil too close to that kind of Utopia for comfort? I mean... look at who got an 8 yr presidency?


I'm not getting into that bit about the presidency. It will derail the thread.

But, yeah, there's a dysgenic trend, as well as a strong socialistic trend.

I remember when our former Minister of Justice (?) visited the USA a while ago. When speaking to his US counterpart, he made a comment that the US was "the last remaining communist state" or somesuch. That obviously raised some eyebrows. Somewhat straining to contain himself, your guy then asked why anyone would say that. "Well, with all the lawsuits, nobody willing to take responsibility for themselves, and everyone sticking their noses in everyone else's business, telling them what they can and can't do; to my mind, that's the essence of socialism." I'd love to have been there with a camera.

I've sometimes made the point that, given accurate selection, 80% or so of the workforce could stay at home, and the remaining 20% would get the job done. There are some places where nearly 100% would still need to work, and some where nearly 0% could do the same job, but overall, it'd probably even out to about 20/80. That says something about our potential, and what we're doing about it. Of course, it'll be very interesting when machines start replacing people in more complicated jobs.

In truth, we will have the means to build a utopia in somewhere between 50 and 150 years, unless we go extinct before that. We won't do it, however. And that will be just as well, because a utopia leaves no room for the sweeping social and societal changes we so desperately need in order for utopia to be worthwhile.

quote:

Okay, animals are welcome on my soapbox.


Whee.

Can I set up mine next to yours?

quote:

And again,  your points are valid - absolute power corrupts absolutely so no one person could/should have the job for long (kinda like our presidency) and yet too much committee and nothing is ever decided or gets done.


I've seen large groups that can make decisions, but it's rare. The British have had a cycle going on for some time, where they start a new decision-making body of about a dozen people or less, and then it grows over time, until a new one is made and put over the old one, resetting the loss of efficiency. Not sure if they're still doing it, though.

For a sufficiently detailed and insightful overview of how committees work, and don't work, I'd suggest reading The Mythical Man-Month by Fred P. Brooks, and also the paper behind Parkinson's Law. Particularly the latter, really.

quote:

Who among is qualified? How do we determine that, test for it, monitor it? Who among us is qualified to determine who is qualified?


Very hard question. Yet one that has already been arbitrarily decided. In the manner it has been decided, it is acceptable for Amish to refuse medical care to their children, which may or may not be the way things are supposed to be. It's complicated. Where do we draw the line?

quote:

off in search of aspirin...


In my experience, aspirin doesn't help, since it doesn't put the genie back in the bottle, the worms back in the can; the questions remain.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Wildnfreehrt2004)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 1:31:26 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

On the topic of the thread, I suspect that part of the reason people need to trash the kink of other people, and vaunt their own as being The Ultimate In Kinkness might have something to do with their own personal need for validation. 


And maybe this kind of psychologizing across broad populations is genuinely interesting to some people. I'm not being sarcastic, it is just way, way down my my personal list of preferred kink-related topics.

As for "the reason people need," I suspect that this way of couching the issue might contribute as much to the muddling as to the resolving. I suspect that the people in question don't "need" in even a weak sense to type those particular words into a particular forum thread. I'll acknowledge that they may have psychological needs (quite un-specifiable by the likes of me) but psychological needs tend to admit of a wide range of potential satisfactions, in my experience.

I suspect that these people, whatever their "needs" may be, choose to publicly go on and on about the superiority of their kink, and they could as well choose not to, and to meet their psychological needs some other way--or transcend certain of them altogether, perhaps.

And I think either of those options would be fucking great.

quote:

Human beings tend to be a pack animal, and in a situation where a person might have mixed feelings about their behavior, being surrounded by a group of other people doing the same behavior may be comforting to them.


Pack animal sounds like it might be a little pervjorative. I believe that human beings are social creatures, identified by--as much as anything--the fact that they use language--and language is inherently social.

I have been in situations where I had mixed feelings about my behavior. In some of those cases, being among people acting just as I was acting was just what I needed to see the ugliness of my own behavior and then to reconsider and change it.

That is to say that being a socail animal can be seen to contribute just as well to exemplary behavior as to inimpressive or even bad behavior.

Moreover, I think that the fantasy of the rugged individualist, taken beyond a very small range, is nothing but a fantasy. As to why some people seek to inhabit it, well again I'm not interested in that kind of psychologizing. I haven't found any way of personally envisioning the human being as I know it utterly without the effects, potentials and limitations of social interaction and language.

So yeah. Pack animals and yack animals. And I'm cool with that.

Thanks for all your thoughtful contributions here, by the way.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 1:40:50 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I enjoy those among us that think NOT only is their kink better than mine.
BUT,
they are also going to attempt to change/ my views or my mind on my kink.
I love the audacity of some people, I often wonder if they really believe what they are typing. 
As IF you could actually change what I want, enjoy or what I am?


I never can understand people when they talk about what they "are" in these contexts, so I'm not qualified to comment on that part.

What I want and what I enjoy have altered considerably over time, and to a great degree as a result of the influences of people with whom I have interacted in life or literature. Similarly I take credit for acquainting other people with desires and pleasures with which they had been not-in-touch. So I think it is fine to speak (in qualified but big and important ways) in terms of changing another person's desires and pleasures.


quote:

It really does take all kinds in this world, and you see many of the "kinds" around here.


An' dey's all God's chilluns, in my book.



(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 1:43:23 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Responding because you chose to use one of my threads as your example. My thread, however, did not have anything to do with what people choose to do as a "kink". I would have no issues whatsoever with someone who had a mentoring kink. Nowhere did I say that "Anyone who considers having a mentor is psychologically, morally and legally incompetent to give consent" I was speaking specifically about people who state that they "need" to have someone else make decisions in their life because they are incapable or can not trust themselves to do so. The question was that if they are indeed incapable to make their own decisions, can we then assume they are capable of consent.



I missed the other thread. I do not understand this position on what suits other people in their lives... are they happy, satisfied, and functioning in their life? If they are I do not know if it matters what your opinion is about how they choose to live. You know, many people think that anyone that is a submissive that needs to be controlled sexually or emotionally is unhealthy, and they would even think that people who consent to any such things must be flawed. I am sure you do not agree with that assessment of being a submissive. There are plenty of Ds couples where the submissive makes a choice to have someone else make her choices... I do not see choosing a mentor to make decisions as that much different than choosing a dominant to make decisions. One is consenting to give away their capacity to make choices in both circumstances. I do not know what separates a submissive's right to consent to ownership from her ability to consent to mentorship... it just does not seem logical that one form of consent is consent, and the other is not.

I think that if people are happy in their lives, and they feel safe knowing that others are looking out for them, who the hell cares? They can and did consent to it so I don't care at all. In my opinion it would be slightly hypocritical of me to state that because I consented to a fullblown Ds dynamic with a dominant that takes control over my decisions I am somehow superior to someone that gave similar rights to a mentor... why is my decision somehow better than theirs?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 2:22:39 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

quote:

Noah: 
Hey now! Disrupting the time space continuum ... there's a kink for you. Though methinks some may deem that unacceptable edge-play. But then again who cares what people who say "deem" and "methinks" think?

Not that we don't have every right to our word-kinks, a'course.



Indubitably

E.


Are you sure you want to invoke the spectre of Descartes that way?

And please say hi to the x-masbush girl.

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Why my kink is so very much better than yours - 6/3/2007 3:05:10 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline




quote:

Noah: 
Hey now! Disrupting the time space continuum ... there's a kink for you. Though methinks some may deem that unacceptable edge-play. But then again who cares what people who say "deem" and "methinks" think?

Not that we don't have every right to our word-kinks, a'course.

ME:  Indubitably

E.

Noah, again:  Are you sure you want to invoke the spectre of Descartes that way?

And please say hi to the x-masbush girl.


I will not be drawn into a discussion of Cartesian logic.  But you know I love the chance to show off with fancy words *grin* so thanks for the reply which gives me the chance to say "Cartesian".

he only does it to annoy, because he knows it teases (said by some Dutchess, as told to me by a latent paedophile).
 
My own little garland of berries, leaves and thorns is quite wonderful, and I'll pass on your hello.  She doesn't read these boards anymore, so far as I know.  I didn't for a while, but as Rene might say c'est moi.  That is the sad state of my existence.

How is your delightful nurse?

E.

Edited to get the quote thingy working right.



< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 6/3/2007 3:08:22 PM >

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 60
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