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Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 7:54:11 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		The thread on rules got me thinking about rules, protocol, and  the importance we place on them.

Are we defined by how many rules we are given to follow?  Is  the use ,or lack of, protocol a defining factor or basis for being submissive?

Do submissives feel more or less submissive by the number of rules  and or protocols laid down to follow?

In my own case, I've never  felt that either of the above define who i am or what i seek.  I  know i respond best in most situations without micro management, and without a laundry list of rules  that basically fall under "personal preference".    I know enough about myself to know that i would never thrive in a relationship with one who put restrictions on my speech,  eye contact, or on my ability to conduct myself  or function outside of our dynamic. 

For me, it's always been more a state of mind, then a tangible thing, and i feel most submissive with the realization that i am pleasing my partner in any given circumstance,  from my own free will and desire to please, in lieu of fearing punishment or repercussion from breaking a "rule".

So...how important are rules and protocol to you?

This does not include little rituals that may be in place to keep an intimate bond when partners cannot be physically together for one reason or another.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:01:25 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Very little.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_579363/mpage_1/key_ritual/tm.htm#579537
Rituals and protocols, which ones do you use?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_512995/mpage_1/key_ritual/tm.htm#513015
Daily Routines

http://www.collarchat.com/m_307839/mpage_1/key_daily%252Croutine/tm.htm#307839
Structure

http://www.collarchat.com/m_99518/mpage_1/key_daily%252Croutine/tm.htm#99518
day to day in the lifestyle

http://www.collarchat.com/m_83995/mpage_1/key_daily%252Croutine/tm.htm#83995
Need help...consistency problems

http://www.collarchat.com/m_45593/mpage_1/key_daily%252Croutine/tm.htm#45593
routine

http://www.collarchat.com/m_504581/mpage_1/key_rituals/tm.htm#504854
Rituals...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_229409/mpage_1/key_ritual/tm.htm#229409
Purpose of ritual and types

http://www.collarchat.com/m_234894/mpage_1/key_ritual/tm.htm#234894
Ritual in anticipation of time together

http://www.collarchat.com/m_242681/mpage_1/key_ritual/tm.htm#242681
rituals, your favorite and why?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_110/mpage_1/key_rituals/tm.htm#110
rituals

http://www.collarchat.com/m_7380/mpage_1/key_rituals/tm.htm#7380
protocols

http://www.collarchat.com/m_48910/mpage_1/key_rituals/tm.htm#48910
special rituals please?!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_97744/mpage_1/key_rituals/tm.htm#97744
rituals (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_296210/mpage_1/key_rituals/tm.htm#296210
favorite rituals


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:10:06 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		From another viewpoint.
I define protocol as A set manner in which a repeated situation is handled.
If there is a set way something is done, from making coffee to greeting me when I return home. Then it is a protocol by definition. How ornate or obscure the reasons for a protocol is depends on the person making the rules.
I don't set protocols that are obscure in their reasoning, I set protocols to reinforce the dynamic and to make life easier for me and mine. The standards are simple the reasons provided, they are easy to remember.

Walk to my left and a half step behind because I want you to be within reach and I don't want you to be in the way of my right arm. That is a protocol along with the reason for it.

Protocols don't define who I am or what the relationship I have with my slave is. They provide the guidance of how situations we will no doubt encounter repeatedly are going to be handled. If the protocol I set up gets in the way of the goals of the relationship then the protocol changes. But I rarely have to change a protocol because I don't set up arbitrary protocols, and I don't have tons of them. I have more of them than many folks but that is because I use the term to include those things I want done a specific way.

When you define protocols the way I do then they simply do not have the negative feel so many folks seem to put on them.
Protocol - An agreed way that something is done.

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:15:42 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		I personally find the word "protocol" stomach turning.  For me it conjurs up Anne Rice and not much more. (not that I didn't enjoy her books) 

Without a doubt there are very specific things I want from Robert.  For example, I want Coke in a glass with ice but I want Diet Dew straight from the can.  That's not because I want to confuse him it's because that's how I prefer those two drinks.  It's my innate weirdness not some strategy for mindfucking him nor is it just to see how high he'll proverbally jump.  I already know Robert would jump until his leg fell off for me.  I don't need him to prove that by "maintaining" a "position" or speaking key phrases.

I personally don't care how he does something as long as it gets done.  I know people with high protocols for many many things, such as dinner.  I have a family of 5.  One is off to cheerleading, girl scouts, school, friend's homes, one is still in pull ups and takes random naps. I have a husband who works varying hours each day and I go to school full time. I have no room for static protocol. 

I LOVE change, thrive on it actually, so seeing the same thing day in and day out would become terribly boring to me.  I can't imagine coming home every single day to find Robert in the same position, saying the same thing, making me think the same thing *I created a mindless Robertbot*.  Nope, I'll keep the excitement and interest.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:19:13 AM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		Oh boy....this is a odd one for me personally. Master and i are both new and learning together, i have been in some places that were called play dungeons..or play houses...and i know that there is a protocol that is observed. I was fortunate enough to have a good group of men and women around me that guided me along. Master and i do not follow a formal portocol, we are very much a Master/ slave dynamic in all aspects of our relationship...it is what we are...we live it the way we feel it...in time i think Master may incorperate some protocols or rituals that He may enjoy seeing me do or what have you....and that would be great...we are less concerned with that stuff right now is all.....

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:28:12 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

...Are we defined by how many rules we are given to follow?  Is  the use ,or lack of, protocol a defining factor or basis for being submissive?...


there is no we.  there are no universal defining factors/basis for "submissive" other than the claim on that identity by the individual.

quote:

Do submissives feel more or less submissive by the number of rules  and or protocols laid down to follow?


that would depend entirely on the individual.

quote:

...I know enough about myself to know that i would never thrive in a relationship with one who put restrictions on my speech,  eye contact, or on my ability to conduct myself  or function outside of our dynamic... 


this slave knows enough about herself to know that she wouldn't thrive in a relationship where she is the one setting restrictions, making rules and/or calling shots.  to each their own.

quote:

So...how important are rules and protocol to you?


the rules and protocol Master requires are of utmost importance.  Master's happiness/fulfillment/joy is job #1.
 
knowing other's rules/protocol before interacting with them in a social setting is helpful for this slave as well, so as not to be offensive.  this slave has learned to NEVER assume that someone else would have anywhere near the same rules/protocol as Master does, just because they use the same label (submissive/slave) to express anything from a behind-the-locked-dungeon/bedroom door-sexual preference to a full-on 24/7 relationship identity. 

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:28:31 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Wouldn't worry too much about it i'mthat. You'll find what fits you (as a pair) and learning Dungeon/ Playspace Protocols is usually a review of Kindergarden rules. 80% of it ammounts to one simple rule. Don't touch what isn't yours without asking.

Many folks make protocol a mysterious tough thing. It can be really simple and can provide security in knowing what is expected under specific situations.

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:37:20 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		 Thank you for the replies so far, on a comic note...dammit LA...whenever i create a thread, which is not often, i try to word it in such a way that you are not compelled to list a bunch of links...lol...curses...foiled again!  (don't get me wrong,  I'm sure the links are helpful to many, it's just a goofy  thing that always comes to mind when i consider starting a thread). 

Archer, Thank You, i appreciate your examples of such in your reply, it leads to ask this question though....should we need our dynamic to be reinforced?  After all...i specifically choose my  relationship dynamics as a direct reflection of my personality.


Thanks Earthycouple...i rather enjoy that outlook, and tend to try and adhere to one rule, and that is to please my partner.

< Message edited by spankmepink11 -- 6/4/2007 8:38:09 AM >

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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:44:45 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...I know enough about myself to know that i would never thrive in a relationship with one who put restrictions on my speech,  eye contact, or on my ability to conduct myself  or function outside of our dynamic... 


this slave knows enough about herself to know that she wouldn't thrive in a relationship where she is the one setting restrictions, making rules and/or calling shots.  to each their own.




beth,  do you think seeking one out who's thoughts and feelings about rules and protocols are compatable to ones own as setting restrictions, making rules, or calling the shots?

Initially....did you not have any criteria for choosing a partner before you became the property of Merc?

I respect the love and beauty involved in your dynamic, even if i doubt my own ability to live it in the exact way that you do.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:48:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		LOL well if it helps you to really think about your post, I have to say I'm happy about that, even with residual grrness to go with it.

Also it helps to realize that everyone is weird in some way.  I haven't met someone yet who didn't have some weird "thing" about them which they just irrationally need or prefer to have that way.  Good relationships I have found are often finding a way to mix peoples different weirdnesses so that everyone's happy.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 8:50:03 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		don't have any rules and protocols in my relationship with Daddy ...just like you, i don't respond too well if my day had to be micromanaged by Him ...i do quite well being self-motivated in getting things done.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...


...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:00:30 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		should we need our dynamic to be reenforced?

Should we need to work on communication?

In a perfect world with perfect people reinforcement would not be required, but we have niether perfect world or people. Should is never a good word choice in my mind.

We have relationships and the dynamic has been set but how it is expressed i action is what I am refering to.

With a thought towards simply having folks take a look beyond the surface of the statement.

"...try and adhere to one rule, and that is to please my partner. "

How do you decide what might please them?
Do you evaluate every possible action possible to be taken at that moment or do you communicate with them to help narrow the field of possible actions that will please them? If something pleased them one time do you assume it will please them every time? Or do you communicate and see if you can figure out what conditions and situations they will like X and which ones they would be pleased by Y.

As another example We have a protocol that says Elegant will greet me upon my return from work and If I hae had a hard day I say so. If I have had a hard day the rule is unless it is an emergency I m to get 20 minutes of decompression time after which I will be open to communications. (Reason Simple I want to get rid of the external influences of the day and not have them fall on her) Until that time she brings me my drink and sets me up in my space wih those things I need and leaves me alone until the time is up.

The protocol part is simple 20 minutes. Otherwise she would have to ask how long I need every time. This way she knows it's 20 minutes without needing to ask or be told.

I'm not one who believes that everything needs a protocol. I actually require a huge ammount of decissions to be made by my slave. But in cases where the situation will repeat itself often and I have decided that the best way for it to be handled is X. Then I will set a protocol. That way the slave knows exactly what is expected of them in that situation.







It is in my definition a protocol since it is an established way we handle a repeating situation. 

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:12:47 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11
How important are rules and protocol to you?


For me, they are like bondage, they are comforting and relaxing. I thrive on protocols and on rules to some extent. I have done the micromanaged thing, it was an interesting and learning experience, at this time and point in my life, its not neccessary, nor is it required. I do like rules and protocol since I was trained in both areas, they come naturally, an I do find myself asking for them when a partner does not put them on me. Then again, I am a bit more old fashioned than most around here; I had 'formal' training; an I earned my title, so rules are kidna part of who I am now, and what I desire.

_____________________________

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:15:57 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

With a thought towards simply having folks take a look beyond the surface of the statement.

"...try and adhere to one rule, and that is to please my partner. "

How do you decide what might please them?
Do you evaluate every possible action possible to be taken at that moment or do you communicate with them to help narrow the field of possible actions that will please them? If something pleased them one time do you assume it will please them every time? Or do you communicate and see if you can figure out what conditions and situations they will like X and which ones they would be pleased by Y.

. 


It's not i who decides what he may find pleasing, if we are in a relationship, then i believe that information would have already been given and processed.

I greatly appreciate your viewpoint, and it has given me much food for thought on the subject, thank you

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:17:39 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Protocol does not = Micro Management

In fact they actually work to reduce the need for it. Protocols are the SOP's. The guidance that helps someone to make decissions that will have a greater chance that will please their D-type. Because it is based on specificly communicated information of what pleases them.
The difference is in the manner of communicaing what will please me (your D-type).



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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:20:35 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty


I had 'formal' training; an I earned my title, so rules are kidna part of who I am now, and what I desire.


Do you believe that one must earn the right to be themselves and label themselves accordingly?  Did someone have to tell you that you earned the right to be called a submissive or slave in order for you to feel validated in your relationship choices or self identification?  

What does "formal training" consist of?

< Message edited by spankmepink11 -- 6/4/2007 9:22:03 AM >

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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:29:43 AM   
SubSlaveJane


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		Hello,
How are you doing there..I just what to let you know that am look for master if you can be one of my master i will be happy?

Thank you

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:35:22 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

With a thought towards simply having folks take a look beyond the surface of the statement.

"...try and adhere to one rule, and that is to please my partner. "

How do you decide what might please them?
Do you evaluate every possible action possible to be taken at that moment or do you communicate with them to help narrow the field of possible actions that will please them? If something pleased them one time do you assume it will please them every time? Or do you communicate and see if you can figure out what conditions and situations they will like X and which ones they would be pleased by Y.

. 


It's not i who decides what he may find pleasing, if we are in a relationship, then i believe that information would have already been given and processed.

I greatly appreciate your viewpoint, and it has given me much food for thought on the subject, thank you


OK Maybe another approach will get the point I'm trying to get across.

You know you have the task of ( for purposes of this exercise we'll use getting dressed for an evening out) How do you decide what to put on?
With the goal of pleasing him in mind, what is the entire process.

(Elegant's answer would look something like this:)
Evening Out protocol says dress or blouse and skirt, heels, makeup, contacts.
If she shows up in Jeans and a T shirt there is no doubt in either of our minds this will not be pleasing. If she shows up in slacks and a blazer she knows I will not be pleased.
If she shows up in shorts No Go again.
The protocol guides her to a decission more likely to be pleasing.

Thus I'm not micro managing her choice of what to wear (ie picking the outfit out for her) I have provided the guideance so that for every evening we are going "Out" she has a very good chance that within the guidelines of the protocol at the very least I will not be displeased, and chances are good I will be pleased.


(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:40:47 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

beth,  do you think seeking one out who's thoughts and feelings about rules and protocols are compatable to ones own as setting restrictions, making rules, or calling the shots?


for this slave, it would be.  others define their submission differently, and there's nothing wrong with that.

quote:

Initially....did you not have any criteria for choosing a partner before you became the property of Merc?


this slave was not seeking and not interested to be a partner in a relationship when we met.
 
this slave did not advertise herself as a slave or have a prepared list of qualities or attributes or preferences for a potential Master/Owner, if one presented themselves as such, because she did not seek to be owned.
 
this slave was not looking for a specific bedroom kink to be fulfilled amidst an otherwise vanilla dating/marriage construct.

quote:

I respect the love and beauty involved in your dynamic, even if i doubt my own ability to live it in the exact way that you do.


thank you for your kind words.  the fulfilling and beautiful dynamic we share isn't something this slave demanded or shaped by her preferences, rules or criteria.  this slave submitted to Master's limits, His rules, His criteria.
 
this slave has mentioned often on these boards that her submission is not inspired by others.  it isn't a "headspace" she struggles to maintain, a relief/release from her Dominant role(s) elsewhere, or present only behind locked bedroom/dungeon doors.
 
to react to others submissively, to this slave, is as natural as breathing.  only after folks no longer thrive in a relationship with this slave, regardless of the relationship, has she ever even thought to extricate someone from her path.
 
this slave thrives in service to another's preferences/limits/criteria...and now that she is owned by Master, ONLY His.  she no longer serves the public, her neighborhood, relative strangers, strange relatives, offspring, friends or an independent self...only Master.

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. - 6/4/2007 9:42:39 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
I had 'formal' training; an I earned my title, so rules are kidna part of who I am now, and what I desire.


Do you believe that one must earn the right to be themselves and label themselves accordingly?  Did someone have to tell you that you earned the right to be called a submissive or slave in order for you to feel validated in your relationship choices or self identification?  

What does "formal training" consist of?

 
I do wholeheartedly believe that the title of 'slave' is earned, NOT given, as it does mean the bar is set higher and more is expected in a relationship from one who is 'a slave.' Their use to be a 'heirarchy' of sorts that listed what the baseline for 'a submissive,' 'a servant,' a slave,' 'a pet' etc were. Its been years since I have seen such a thing, yet I do remember it.
 
My goal was NEVER to be 'a slave,' I figured out a long time ago that I was more submissve to various types of men, so entering into D/s was a natural progression and place for me, especially when I started to persue older men for relationships, things worked out. I don't look at what I experienced as self-identification, I look at it more as a different way of learning and one that I am greatfull for; things aren't wishy washy as with other I have encountered on the boards. The bar is higher, and I strive for it; just as I set it higher for a potential partner.
 
 
My areas of 'formal training' are - basic positioning, cum, ass, spice, obediance, breath control, eye, point, verbal, expectance, oral, manners (including high protocol and 3rd person).
 
It was like any other training, just done over and over. It was structured, it was extensive it was all inclusive, from the moment I woke up til I finally went to bed, and even then, sleeping was a learned experience, you try having a chain around your ankle, and try to get comfortable, not easy. 48 to 72 hours at a time.
 
Don't get me wrong, I was allowed to check in with my child and those who were my safe calls, but, things were structured and VERY high protocol. After xyz weekends like that, I earned my title, my view on M/s and on lifestyle changed, I saw things differently, hense my strong views on many things.
 
I need a refresher course on some things and in some areas, but, right now, I don't see that as an issue; I exceeded expectations this weekend.  I set the bar higher not only for me, but for him as well; I just take this new path and journey as a new chance to learn and to grow. I will be going back over notes, more to get that headspace back, for the moment, I'm not worried, I'm glad we are still talking and on the same page.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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