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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 7:44:34 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello WhiplashSmile. You made me "smile" with the "jailor" analogy as I am a corrections officer... .

Let us ponder "this" analogy: Paintball! we go and play war games, based on whatever "fantasy" you may have going on (Rambo, soldier, terrorist or the equivalent of a "snow ball fight" you are reliving).

You have a group consenting in a safe, sane way to have "fun". No bullets, safety equipment, negotiations, time limits etc. The reality is "playing", "sport", tactical "chess", ie a war sport (war like). You run, you hide, use tactics (intellect) and try to win your objectives.

Some may be in a fantasy world (like children playing, I'm Rambo you are George Patton etc), some may be in the athletic mode (like running an obstacle course), some may be in the tactical mode (tactical chess players). Each individual has his own "level" of reality which is more a mix of "motivations" than the only "one"  fantasy mode.

When we discuss roles in this analogy, we are talking "sport" not fantasy. The reality is not "soldiers" at war with one another. You may fantasize that you are when in play, but it is still paintball. The reality is playing Paintball. Someone compairing "real" war to "paintball" (and vice-versa) proves nothing.  

Now, I have a "role" in a D/s relationship. It is not "acting", it is not fantasy, it is half of a dynamic same as any other vanilla dynamic (unless vanillas are acting too?).

There may be "some" fantasy going on,  it does not mean it "is" a fantasy. Fantasy is "part" of life, it permeates everything and stems from the creativity of desire. (DisneyWorld is fantasy based, but you still have "real" buildings with "real" functions for entertainment , and the same "real" infrastructures as "non-fantasy" based venues.)

If one comes from the fantasy "play" aspect of BDSM, one may not easily see what is going on in longterm D/s. I do not play a "role" in the "fantasy" mode, I am living in a 24/7 relationship. When it's vanilla, it's a real role? When it's D/s, it's not?

Am I "acting" because of a different power exchange from the norm? Am I "acting" because my wife and I have a different "outlook" on sex than the norm? Am I  "acting" because for fun, we play at something else than vanilla paintball?

We all have fantasies, but we live and we "act" in the real world, and this with "real world" consequences, not "fantasy world" consequences. One should not take the "part" for the whole, even it seem's like an "acting part" at first glance. RL.


(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 8:06:18 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

Fuck don't tell me people go to work inside thier Master role?  I wonder how many people Mastered their ASS out the door by their Boss.  So yes! I say ROLE!.. because one is not going to treat every woman like they are their MASTER..  OH crap.. that's right there are a lot of men on this site emailing prospective sub/slaves with the attitude like they already are their Master.   Because these people can't seem to step outside their Masterly Roles of playing Master.


Tal Whiplash,
 
Thanks for the kind words, but I just don't get this "Master role" rant. I'm me. I bring certain talents to bear in some situations, and different talents in other situations. You imply that we have to leave our "Master role" at home when we go to work, lest we act like an asshole and get ourself fired, or annoy female coworkers. What precisely do you see as "masterful" about that?
 
IWYW,
 
Kirata

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 8:57:09 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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Joined: 6/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile
Fuck don't tell me people go to work inside thier Master role?  I wonder how many people Mastered their ASS out the door by their Boss.  So yes! I say ROLE!.. because one is not going to treat every woman like they are their MASTER..  OH crap.. that's right there are a lot of men on this site emailing prospective sub/slaves with the attitude like they already are their Master.   Because these people can't seem to step outside their Masterly Roles of playing Master.


Tal Whiplash,
 
Thanks for the kind words, but I just don't get this "Master role" rant. I'm me. I bring certain talents to bear in some situations, and different talents in other situations. You imply that we have to leave our "Master role" at home when we go to work, lest we act like an asshole and get ourself fired, or annoy female coworkers. What precisely do you see as "masterful" about that?
 
IWYW,
 
Kirata

Please excuse me for the heated rant I've been on.  First and foremost, I adhere to the belife in responsibility a Master/Dom has over a slave/submissive.  D/s without other BDSM elements (S&M, bondage) involved.  On it's own is very real working relationship dynamic.   One that has great rewards and is of mutal benifit to both Master/slave alike.  I adhere to the nurturing and growth aspects of such a relationship.  I'm speaking of  D/s on it's own merit without S&M and bondage.  This is a wonderul and real working relationship structure.  I'm totally in agreement it's real. 

However, what I dislike is those that come into the lifestyle.  Hide behind D/s use that as an excuse to carry out abuse and pass it off as S&M, and that this is acceptable and responsible behavior.  Where people come into BDSM to fantasy role play out a Sadistic Slave Owner.   That slaves should be tricked or lured into finding this acceptable behavior.  I tend to question anybody who treats SSC or similar concepts with little regard. 

There was a post on another thread I agree with  http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1062157 in regards to responsibility.

In terms of M/s with S&M involved.  It's the S&M aspects of a M/s or D/s relationship that were the main thrust of my attacks in terms of acting out fantasy Master/Slave roles.  Scene play aspects.   However, there was another thread that I was reading about Roles we live out in life.   Now I stress stepping into and Living out the Role of Master.  I know you don't understand where I'm fully coming from.

I have done both D/s and a D/D relationship in lifetime.   I have gone from being in the Role of Master, Role of being an Equal in a Dom couple relationship, plus I even had Vanilla relationship experience too.   Three Different Roles, I've done!  Now, each one of these roles I assumed I was basically the same Dom personality.  I am who I am.   However, my actions and behaviors were rather radically different between these roles I've lived in life.   Do you follow my perspective on this subject now?   Sure I was a Dom in a Dom couple,  Master to a slave, D/s in two others, and a Dom personality in vanilla based relationship.  However My roles were different.   In terms of D/s experiences.. I've done TPE, PPE level exchanges and played along great with a Domme..   Totally different dynamics with different Roles.   Does this make me any less of a Dom?  If my next relationship is a M/s one.. then I'm taking on the responsibilities and Duties of a MASTER.. if my next relationship is with a Domme, my role and duties will be rather different.   Hence my stance on acting out roles.  This by no means I'm being a deceitful or fake.. when I speak about living out, acting out a role I have asummed.   It means simply put I take responsibility for the role I'm in.   Now, if I'm in a Daddy/Daughter type of relationship my role is somewhat modified compared to Master/slave dynamics.  I will have responsibilities for whatever role I take on in a relationship, Does it not?  Hence why I have been upset seeing people post back that People who change Roles are not being Honest or are fakes.

I have not clearly nor properly voiced this until now.. because simply put.  I've been on a rant.  Mainly because I am somewhat troubled over the Motto that a sub/slave should do whatever their master wishes regardless if it's responsible or not.

When I saw the OP presenting SSC in a negative light, I viewed this as red flag.  Not in terms of D/s on it's stand alone merit.  However tossing SSC aside and incorperating S&M acting out Scenes of abuse and having this same treatment spill outside of scene play and into the D/s relationship itself is Trouble.   In short Master/slave doing intense scenes in the bedroom acting out Master/slave abuse and use is one thing.  That's a Fantasy of the real deal.  None the less... we walk a fine line between consensual slavery and nonconsensual slavery.  SSC and codes similar to this help us to seperate these two things.  Some people act out consensual slavery to the point it no longer is consensual.   Yes, I believe a sub/slave has the right to end/terminate a relationship when this line is crossed.  If not then were are encouraging or promoting noncensenual slavery in our own group.   Many people use consensual slavery to role play out nonconsensual slavery, and some fall pitfall into believing the slave/sub has no right whatsoever.  

Hence all my rants about legal vs. illegal stuff.   my rants about fanasty abuse and real abuse...  so many things that I got in a stir about.   We are simply living out roles we have established for our relationships.   Again, I'm speaking from my own experiences as I stated above.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 9:05:11 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		robertolapiedra,

I added a little more insight to my view in my response to Kirata. In terms of roles I have assumed or played out in life already.  A big difference between a couple of relationship.  I hope this adds some clarity to where I'm coming from.  My mindset is a little different based upon my experiences in life.. my apologies for ranting.  I think I've tried to explain why I felt passionate enough to rant in my response to Kirata as well.

I am looking out my door waiting for the angry mob carrying pitch forks and torches to show up any minute now...  LOL..


< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 6/5/2007 9:06:37 PM >

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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 9:21:37 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

I stress stepping into and Living out the Role of Master.  I know you don't understand where I'm fully coming from.

Well, that's true (grin). But it may help to define terms.

I'll say up front that I'm speaking from my point of view as a Gorean. That much clear, to me mastery has nothing to do with slaves. The person we have to master is ourself. Striving to do that through all that life can throw at us is not a "role" by any definition. From my point of view, you aren't going to be able to fully master a woman until first you master yourself. What does that mean? Not being an asshole, for one. Except during competitions, of course. Heh. Hell I don't know how to put it into words. To be honorable, to develop inner strength and courage. Many have said it better than me. Women aren't fools (no matter what people say about them). A fun scene is a fun scene, and a man is a man. They know the difference. Why don't we?

Be well,

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/5/2007 9:51:28 PM >

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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 9:29:54 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		Can you boys stop hosing down the thread with piss and testosterone?? Its not very attractive, if anything, its immature. You can only say the same thing so many times, before your point is lost. Trust me boys, its lost.
 
So many terms are being thrown around and grossly missused its disgusting. Can you boys play nice and use 'nice words'? or am I gonna have to seperate you, until you can talk to eachother with respect and ditch the sarcasm and disrespect?!

< Message edited by slaverosebeauty -- 6/5/2007 9:32:04 PM >

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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 9:47:58 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		slaverosebeauty, i was just wishing they would be more succinct instead of paragraphs and paragraphics of muscle flexing.  ;)

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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 9:52:34 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
slaverosebeauty, i was just wishing they would be more succinct instead of paragraphs and paragraphics of muscle flexing.  ;)


{giggles} I can't take any more, SOMEONE had to tell them to grow up, it just happened to be moi.

I was thinking it would be interesting if they said something new and to the same things over and over and over and over again; or at least find a cliff notes version what they think they are saying, sheesh.

Reminds me of that song 'Stupid Boy,' just the title or "My Give a Damn's Busted." Both fit well.

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 9:53:21 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

slaverosebeauty, i was just wishing they would be more succinct instead of paragraphs and paragraphics of muscle flexing.  ;)

They? ~ points at Whiplash ~
 

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 9:54:47 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

I stress stepping into and Living out the Role of Master.  I know you don't understand where I'm fully coming from.

Well, that's true (grin). But it may help to define terms.
 
I'll say up front that I'm speaking from my point of view as a Gorean. That much clear, to me mastery has nothing to do with slaves. The person we have to master is ourself. Striving to do that through all that life can throw at us is not a "role" by any definition. But from a Gorean point of view, you aren't going to be able to fully master a woman until first you master yourself.


Thanks for the excellent clarification in terms of Gorean Masterhood.  I tend to agree with this line of thinking.  I know I can be a bit of a ranting hot head at times, but my moments pass.  I do tend to be a bit of a smart ass with a scaractic streak.  Yes, I was on a bit of rant.   I want you to know I appreciate the things you have shared with me on this thread.  That I value your POV, thank you for sharing this with me.  

quote:


What does that mean? Not being an asshole, for one. Except during competitions, of course. Heh. Hell I don't know how to put it into words. To be honorable, to develop inner strength and courage. Many have said it better than me. Women aren't fools (no matter what people say about them). A fun scene is a fun scene, and a man is a man. They know the difference. Why don't we?
 
Be well,

K.

LOL...  you have me a good laugh.  Yes, to be honorable, and develop inner strength and courage.  Self control vs. no self control.  There are those that walk amoung us without Honor nor honorable intentions.  Who feel no strength within, that they use others as doormats to give them the illusion of strength.  But it's a dishonorable shameful act.  To be a Master at all times.  Ok.. I can see this being a 24/7 lifestyle when applying the concept of Master in this manner.  Similar in some Doctrines of religion or from Eastern Cultures.

I stand corrected when viewing Master in this context.  That it is 24/7 lifestyle dynamic that can be followed and not some fantasy being acted out.  However, you are following a code to live by.  Non the less you follow a code, just a SSC is a code to help keep things in check.

Out of control Masters, save at Sporting Event, that don't excercise a belief in the welfare of others is a dangerous POV in my opinion.  I don't know many slaves that embrace the thought of death at the hands of their masters. I've never treated anybody like a doormat in my life.  Hell, if I did.. my relationships would have not lasted as long as they did.  Now if I can break past the 7 year mark (my longest one) I'll be grinning, call it a personal goal of mine.  HaHaHa.. 

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:01:43 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

slaverosebeauty, i was just wishing they would be more succinct instead of paragraphs and paragraphics of muscle flexing.  ;)

They? ~ points at Whiplash ~
 


I counted 4 or 5 of you boys earlier. Pointing fingers only shows the guilty.

Come on boys a SLAVE is telling you to behave. Ok, I'm not your run of the mill slave, but all the same, I'm saying 'act liek adults' is that possible??

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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:10:52 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Come on boys a SLAVE is telling you to behave. Ok, I'm not your run of the mill slave, but all the same, I'm saying 'act liek adults' is that possible??

Waiting until the discussion's conclusion to tell us to stop doesn't count. We're done anyway. But hey, better luck next time.
 
K.
 

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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:15:14 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

slaverosebeauty, i was just wishing they would be more succinct instead of paragraphs and paragraphics of muscle flexing.  ;)

They? ~ points at Whiplash ~
 

I'm guilty...  I Did it...  I'm to Blame!  I take full responsibility for it all.  :-) 

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:16:17 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		Acting like children is rediculas, so is the pissing contest. You boys have PROVEN what insanity means, "doing the same tihngs over and over again expecting different results." You boys have been doing just that for PAGES on here. It ceased being a 'discussion' when you boys started pissing every where. The smell is horid.

If you don't like that a slave is telling you boys to act like adults, then don't reply or read my responses. Or {gasp} act like adults and agree to disagree and move on.

Good night boys.

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RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:19:34 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Come on boys a SLAVE is telling you to behave. Ok, I'm not your run of the mill slave, but all the same, I'm saying 'act liek adults' is that possible??

Waiting until the discussion's conclusion to tell us to stop doesn't count. We're done anyway. But hey, better luck next time.
 
K.
 


Hello Kirata. Just let her enjoy herself, hey? If she "really" didn't like what is said, she would stop reading (just like it is written at the bottom of all her posts).

EDIT: missing word


< Message edited by robertolapiedra -- 6/5/2007 10:21:12 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:22:31 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
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quote:


I counted 4 or 5 of you boys earlier. Pointing fingers only shows the guilty.

Come on boys a SLAVE is telling you to behave. Ok, I'm not your run of the mill slave, but all the same, I'm saying 'act liek adults' is that possible??

Oooo Ooooo Oooo... I'm pointing a finger at myself does this count? 
So what just is a run of the mill slave exactly, I've always wanted to know? (Big Cheezy Grin)! 

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 6/5/2007 10:31:35 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:26:45 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Come on boys a SLAVE is telling you to behave. Ok, I'm not your run of the mill slave, but all the same, I'm saying 'act liek adults' is that possible??

Waiting until the discussion's conclusion to tell us to stop doesn't count. We're done anyway. But hey, better luck next time.
 
K.

We are done debating.. think it was worked out a few posting ago?  Hell, I was thinking we properly end this pissing match by going for a beer or drink.

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 6/5/2007 10:28:24 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:30:31 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Come on boys a SLAVE is telling you to behave. Ok, I'm not your run of the mill slave, but all the same, I'm saying 'act liek adults' is that possible??

Waiting until the discussion's conclusion to tell us to stop doesn't count. We're done anyway. But hey, better luck next time.
 
K.

We are done debating.. think it was worked out a few posting ago?  Hell, I was thinking we properly end this pissing match by going for a beer or drink.


I've got a Lagavulin freshly opened! Who's driving? RL

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 10:54:02 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra

I've got a Lagavulin freshly opened! Who's driving? RL


Your car right?


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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Dominance and submission? - 6/5/2007 11:22:43 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra

I've got a Lagavulin freshly opened! Who's driving? RL


Your car right?



Uh...nope, I'm too far gone already. Why don't we ask slaverosebeauty? She could watch over us and make sure we got home ok. RL.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 140
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