undergroundsea
Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
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From a discussion on another thread:
quote:
ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
quote:
ORIGINAL: cloudboy
It makes you feel like its boys against the girls all over again.
On this thread, not as much. At least it is not how we came to this point. On this thread, it's about rudeness and attacks on others, which is what I questioned.
Instead of responding about the rudeness, she is going towards a discussion that really belongs on another thread. I expect she is doing so because she has no response about the rudeness and needs another direction to deflect the conversation.
As for the other thread, perhaps it has potential to become a boys versus girls matter for some people. The thread stemmed from intellectual curiousity. Rather than discuss here her response and ask questions to you, I will instead direct the questions to her in that thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_1064592/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm
Cheers,
Sea
Pardon me for not responding in more detail to this post the first time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<arg>>>>>>>>>>> whats with these wuss weak baby questions. 'Ohhhhhh come come the girls dont have to do nice gestures to us boys and show us nice regards tooooo' <waaaaaaaa>
<sigh>
quit being all scarred your never gonna have the power like Her.
women dont have to do these quote: [regard gestures] you worry and speak about and check this BECOZ they dont have to. thats why. womens got what the man wants. yay thats right and quit all fighting it and dont hollar bout it. you think its so unfair and you cry about it and stomp your feet like a passiveagressive fake ass sub. whatever. just come out your closet already that your like really just a lost dom in disguise, dammit. your in a womens world. cry in the sub section and quits trying to fool these WOmens that your a sub when you aint one and aint neva going to be one till you accept it. whats it. you know.
Let's break this down. There are two points your text attempts to convey.
First, you think the reason that women don't extend gestures of regard is because they don't have to. Sure, I agree that that point is relevant and is one I raise in post number 17 in this thread. While your point has some merit or relevance, I think it is too simplistic to reduce it to that alone. I think the matter is more complex and relies on multiple factors, of which the point you raise is one.
The second point you raise is that if one expects regard, one cannot be a sub.
First, if you follow the posts, you will see this thread is not a rant but an intellectual discussion. Asking the question in itself is not necessarily equivalent to expecting or wanting to receive regard. But in my case I do indeed expect regard.
I do expect respect in my social relationships--friendships, work relationships, more--in general. And I, in turn, give respect. I give each person basic respect initially. From that point onwards, the respect I give is influenced by the behavior of the person as well as what is given to me in return. I extend this expectation to most Fm relationships.
I say most because I can see myself engaging in a relationship which is limited to SM or D/s play only, where I can process the relationship differently and not expect what I ordinarily do. However, I would see this relationship to be incomplete and would give to it proportionately.
I would not enter into a broader relationship that did not make me comfortable about basic respect. With that prerequisite in place, I can see myself being flexible on matters by realigning a perspective to see something as a gesture of D/s versus a matter of respect. I have whatever sense of self I have. I may take a lesser role but do not consider myself a lesser person for having submissive interests. Whatever realigning I do will be because of how I feel about the person and what is created in the relationship, and not because a sense of duty that a true sub is supposed to behave per a certain rule book.
My broader relationship will be based on D/s and romantic love. And for this relationship to be healthy, affection has to flow in both directions. I would indeed be unsatisfied if affection was not reciprocated. In general, I think both people need to give to a relationship for it to succeed.
I think it is fair of me to expect respect and affection from my relationship. I disagree with your notion that if a sub expects respect and affection, he is not a sub. It is not clear to me on what you base this notion. Are you able to explain it?
I sense anger and sarcasm in your post. Why is it there? Perhaps some of it comes because I have called you on your attacks on people on multiple occasions. However, I think there is more because I have seen statements in similar spirit directed at other people. Why are you threatened if a sub expects respect or regard? What are your thoughts about your capacity and interest to give to a relationship or to a sub?
Cheers,
Sea
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RE: Ladies and....ladies? - 
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