RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (Full Version)

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velvetears -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 11:55:31 AM)

i don't spend much time contemplating the lives of famous people in the media - if it's on television it's like background noise to me - i just hear bits and pieces which are forgotten easily.  She's one of millions of young american kids caught up in the drug culture and even though she's a public figure and people can say an example of what's wrong, she is also a victim of it - her money only means she can afford more than some other kids who live in other areas. 

Why wasn't she given community service in conjunction with some time spent in a rehab.  This is what the kids in my area get. Isn't the point to reform or help people? 

This might be splitting hairs but there is a difference between getting a DWI and a DUI - If she got a DUI she was not intoxicated she was under the influence - so i would suspect it carries a lighter sentence.  i don't think anyone should drive under ANY influence ever, but i have heard of people who have killed others under DWI and served very light sentences.  Should the focus be punishment or help?  Kids are under a lot of pressure in society and so many get caught up in drinking and doing drugs, ever tried to get one into a rehab on private insurance and have to fight tooth and nail for them to be allowed 6 lousy stinking days?  Who can be helped in 6 days!??  Jail the Insurance Agencies for the greedy bastards they are in ignoring a huge public health problem because it costs them too much money.  The outcome will be more users and abusers on the road killing themselves and anyone in their path. 

As a mother i can feel compassion - she may be 26 but to get into a car after being taken into custody and break down crying for your mom speaks volumes of where her head is really at.  If she is truly mentally unstable the worste thing that could have happened was to be told she was going to have house arrest and then dragged back to jail. i don't care who was wrong - judge/sherriff it simply wasn't fair to do to her.  Especially if she has issues of being unstable and on the verge of an emotional breakdown. Hopefully she will get the meds she needs in jail to cope.  i just see this whole thing as having had the potential to have been a positive turned into such a negative. 



KatyLied -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 12:13:23 PM)

She is currently in trouble for violating probation, not for DUI.
She was on probation and had her driver's license suspended (as a result of DUI in Sept 2006).
She was caught driving with a suspended license (violating her terms of probation)



Level -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 3:55:24 PM)

"Paris Hilton awoke Saturday back behind bars in a maximum security detention center where the distraught hotel heiress was believed to be undergoing medical and psychiatric evaluations to determine the best jail to keep her in as she serves the rest of her sentence for violating probation in a reckless driving case.

"Los Angeles County sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore declined to discuss details of Hilton's case Saturday, including the state of her medical evaluations, citing laws against revealing such information on inmates.

"Although Whitmore wouldn't discuss Hilton's condition, Sheriff Lee Baca indicated at a news conference Friday that it was psychological.

He said she arrived at her original jail with a condition he hadn't been apprised of and that it immediately began to deteriorate to the point that he feared for her safety."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/06/09/entertainment/e144645D69.DTL



KatyLied -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 4:00:37 PM)

Is being horribly spoiled a "condition"?



Level -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 4:08:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Is being horribly spoiled a "condition"?


Yes, and 45 days may cure it lol.



Sinergy -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 4:27:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Sheriff Lee Baca indicated at a news conference Friday that it was psychological.



And the winner of the understatement of the year award goes to...

Sinergy



Level -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 4:33:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Sheriff Lee Baca indicated at a news conference Friday that it was psychological.



And the winner of the understatement of the year award goes to...

Sinergy



LOL



ayip -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 4:43:11 PM)

The whole arguement based on the cost of treating her illness is mote. A non-issue. I think it's a given Paris Hiltom has health insurance and that insurance would cover any necessary treatment for whatever ailed her. Not the tax dollars. In her case... a complete mote point.

Under circumstances where an inmates incarceration instructions didn't specifically prohibit early release to monitored house arrest Sheriff Lee Baca would have been within his jurisdiction to have made the call. But, because of the specifics of the instructions he was provided that option was removed from his jurisdiction of action without first consulting with and gaining the permission of that/ or another judge. In doing so appointed himself a higher power than the judge that sentenced her.



Aswad -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 6:15:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

This might be splitting hairs but there is a difference between getting a DWI and a DUI - If she got a DUI she was not intoxicated she was under the influence - so i would suspect it carries a lighter sentence.  i don't think anyone should drive under ANY influence ever, but i have heard of people who have killed others under DWI and served very light sentences.


Thanks for pointing that out. I was not aware that there was a distinction in the US. There isn't one up here, AFAIK.

Either way, DWI should probably carry a heavier sentence than DUI, not the other way around.

quote:

Should the focus be punishment or help?


Depends on who you ask. If you ask me, the focus should be a balance between helping these people, making sure they don't do it again, and deterring others from doing the same. Such is the stated intent and purpose of our own system, and our recidivism rates are far lower than those of the US, although still not as low as Denmark. The system in Denmark has taken this balance further in the direction I prefer, compared to Norway.

If you ask a large number of people around the world, though, you'll find that many espouse the view that IIRC is one of the stated intents and purposes of the US system, namely that they should "set things right" by visiting an equal injustice (revenge, restitution, whatever name one calls it by) upon the offender. To avoid infinite recursion of this principle, it only entitles the judicial system to "set things right", and only "sets right" injustices that are criminal.

For a more pure form of the latter view, one can look to the old Egyptian concept of justice, ma'at ([image]http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_H6.png[/image]).

quote:

Jail the Insurance Agencies for the greedy bastards they are in ignoring a huge public health problem because it costs them too much money.


Actually, the insurance agencies are legally obligated to do what they do, the way they do it: maximize profit.

In that respect, it is not the insurance agencies that should be imprisoned, but rather the people who made the laws in the first place, or perhaps the people who didn't use their voting options (soapbox, ballot box, jury box, ammo box; that being the order I have seen them given by most Americans who have the same view of the reasons for the second amendment as I do) to avoid the problem.

quote:

As a mother i can feel compassion - she may be 26 but to get into a car after being taken into custody and break down crying for your mom speaks volumes of where her head is really at.


~nod~

It isn't surprising, though, given that children can be sentenced to a delayed execution.

quote:

If she is truly mentally unstable the worste thing that could have happened was to be told she was going to have house arrest and then dragged back to jail.


True. This is also one of the things that cause a lot of people to stop fighting when they're at death row: it's harder to live with the back-and-forth than with the execution itself.

quote:

i just see this whole thing as having had the potential to have been a positive turned into such a negative.


I'd have to agree there.



selfbnd411 -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 7:37:14 PM)

Here's the details of her case...She's not being treated harshly at all--if anything she got off light.  70 MPH in a 35 MPH zone WITH NO HEADLIGHTS!  Someone could easily have been killed:

In September 2006, Hilton was arrested and charged with driving under the influence with a blood alcohol content of 0.08%, the minimum at which it is illegal to drive in California. Hilton's drivers license was subsequently suspended in November 2006, and in January 2007 she pled no contest to the alcohol-related reckless driving charge. Her punishment was 36 months' probation and fines of about $1,500.

On January 15, 2007, Hilton was pulled over for driving with a suspended license and signed a document acknowledging that she was not permitted to drive.  On February 27, 2007 Hilton was caught driving 70 MPH in a 35 MPH zone, again with a suspended license. She also did not have her headlights on even though it was after dark. Prosecutors in the office of the Los Angeles City Attorney charged that those actions, along with the failure to enroll in a court-ordered alcohol education program constituted a violation of the terms of her probation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_hilton#Driving_violations



Aswad -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 10:21:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

[...]70 MPH in a 35 MPH zone WITH NO HEADLIGHTS!  Someone could easily have been killed:


I'm pretty sure everyone here gets that part. In 4 hours, I'm off for a baptism, that of my younger sister's baby. In one of the places my sister walks around with his wagon, a guy I knew (past perfect tense) got caught doing 85mph; that's right beside a residential area, and it's a 30mph zone.

Now, I've seen a teenage girl get hit by a car from literally about 2 meters away, and was looking right at her when it happened; ogling, in fact. I don't have have a clear idea of the speed, as I drop into f/f mode, but it was a 35mph zone. If it hadn't been real, it might have been funny in slo-mo, what with the crumpling, rolling over the car, then dropping to the ground like a ragdoll while doing the most amazing spin ever at an odd angle.

It was real, however, and I had the dubious distinction of being first on the scene (2m is apx 6ft).

The driver had made a bad judgment call about considering that someone could be stupid enough to try to cross over where that girl did. People who are drunk make these kinds of mistakes. And driving without the headlights does not, obviously, make it any better ...

Now I don't particularly feel like applying that mental film-reel to my sister, to her kid, or to anyone I've lost to traffic.

I don't need a reminder that someone could have been killed. I know that firsthand.

But in an area where the average person doesn't do any more time than Paris did, according to what others here have said, then what the judge did in that case was a blatant and arrogant mockery of justice. He could just as well have said "I don't like her, and as the the hand that moves the puppet of justice, I'm taking my grudge out on her right now. Take her away!".

And he got away with it; he was applauded, in fact.

The only argument to support the notion that Paris should do more time than the average is that she had no regard for the law. Paris' mental faculties sometimes seem borderline retarded, and she's been shielded enough to have no clue. The judge has neither of these "excuses". He knows the law and its purpose.

Tell me; which is the greater mockery of, disregard for, and insult to, the law and justice?



selfbnd411 -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 10:45:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

But in an area where the average person doesn't do any more time than Paris did, according to what others here have said


"Others" are wrong:

Robbie Davenport: 42 y/o female interviewed by the LA Times upon her release from the LA County Jail at Lynwood
Time served: 45 days
Infraction: Probation Violation--Driving with a suspended license, two prior DUIs (comparable to Hilton's case)
Medical condition: None

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1070416/tm.htm

And the only stat I've read is that "female prisoners" tend to serve 10% of their sentence. Every case is different, and none of us has the legal experience or the access to the necessary evidence to be in any sort of a position to second-guess the judge.

She could easily have been charged with reckless driving under CVC 23103:

23103. (a) Any person who drives any vehicle upon a highway in
willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is
guilty of reckless driving.

The sentence for that ranges from 5 to 90 days.



mistoferin -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/9/2007 11:05:58 PM)

According to the early release policy that was made public last year by Sheriff Baca and the District Attorney, ALL inmates must serve a minimum of 25% of their sentences before being considered for early release.

http://da.co.la.ca.us/mr/110906a.htm



kittinSol -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/10/2007 1:47:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I am pretty sure the last three days showed Ms. Hilton that she never wants to be there again. The LA County jail has no room for her nor does keeping her there serve anything but a "GOTCHA" to the masses. 

[...] Three days in LA County Jail is plenty to hit that point home  [...] ... she is in jail for a 45 day sentence no as justice but as fodder for the masses.

I honestly cannot believe I am saying this,,,

But she is a political prisoner.



That has been my point all long. I'm happily surprised to find that an increasing amount of people think this way. It's a good sign people are using their reason and not abandonning their judgement to the pleasures of passion. Good job, FatDaddy.



kittinSol -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/10/2007 2:05:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

People do love to hate Hilton, and I suspect it's partly because she's a woman [...] Nobody would DARE wish openly for a man to be abused, beaten, and raped in jail, but that's what people are saying about her.


And the really, really funny thing about that, is that, counting the conversations I've had about this in the offline world, women are the ones most keen to see her abused, beaten and raped. That speaks volumes.

I'm not sure what it speaks volumes about, though... Women? Equal rights? Feminism? The state of these? Something else?

I mean, in any other context, women are usually the most vocal about rape always being as bad as it gets, the most horrible thing anyone can do, and the greatest expression of hatred of women, lack of respect for women, and cruelty.



Yes - I think this shows that men and women have the same potential for stupidity. Just like their brothers, a lot of women are ignorant, spiteful cretins. I'm not sure it has much to do with feminism - which, incidentally, deserves an entirely new thread. What is at play here is a lynch mob majority: too many women are too happy to see their more advantaged couterparts "get taken down a peg or two" (an expression that has been repeated many times on this thread): they drool to see the rich, lucky, young bitch suffer.

It's nothing to do with justice when individuals start making suggestions about the ways to make the criminals pay back their debt to society: it's to do with the taste for blood. And it sickens me. I repeat: why don't people spend more time getting indignant about worthy causes, causes that REALLY concerns them directly, such as clean water, poisonned foods, the war in Iraq, poverty and education... the list is far too long.



Aswad -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/10/2007 2:54:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

What is at play here is a lynch mob majority: too many women are too happy to see their more advantaged couterparts "get taken down a peg or two" (an expression that has been repeated many times on this thread): they drool to see the rich, lucky, young bitch suffer.


Funnily enough, I've heard those same words out of some convicted rapists, people that committed assault, etc... "She needed to get taken down a peg or two"... Most frequently when I hear those words in mixed company, a description of "male chauvinist pig" or somesuch is applied to whoever originated them. (What does one call a female male chauvinist pig, I wonder?)

I agree that men and women are well-balanced with regard to their bad sides.

But it just strikes me as odd to find that a large number of women would advocate hatred of women, lack of respect for women, and cruelty to women. Note the plurals, which is how it would be interpreted if a man made similar wishes known about a woman they don't know.

quote:

It's nothing to do with justice when individuals start making suggestions about the ways to make the criminals pay back their debt to society: it's to do with the taste for blood.


~nod~

I'd love 30 minutes with Paris, a solid cane, and a legal go-ahead. [sm=evil.gif]

But I'm not about to pursue that, nor advocate a society that would give the go-ahead.

quote:

And it sickens me. I repeat: why don't people spend more time getting indignant about worthy causes, causes that REALLY concerns them directly, such as clean water, poisonned foods, the war in Iraq, poverty and education... the list is far too long.


Because you either have to pick your battles or become another Noam Chomsky. [:D]

So, people pick the things they care about, one way or another.



selfbnd411 -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/10/2007 3:05:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

So, people pick the things they care about, one way or another.



Some people are probably motivated by a sense of vindictiveness, at least on some level.  But that's hardly the most important motive.  The person you're responding to suggested that this is a minor issue.  We have larger fish to fry.

Not so.  This is a very important issue.  Zoom out, past the sex tape and the rich bitch aspects of it.  This is about equality under the law...it's about due process...it's about checks and balances and the separation of powers.

What I don't understand is why some people think they are in a position to second guess a judge when they have neither the legal training nor the access to information to do so.  If the sentence is unfair, then the convict is free to file an appeal.  She can get in line with all the rest of us citizens.  It damages our system of laws when a public official essentially holds down the velvet rope so that a court favorite can circumvent the rules.  It's an offense against all law abiding citizens.



mrbob726 -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/10/2007 3:20:40 PM)

Lets get real here - this third time, the one she went to jail for, was as follows:
She was driving at a high rate of speed, estimated at "in excess of 90 MPH", on a suspended license, under the influence, with no headlights on, and under court supervision, in the wee hours of the morning. How does anyone think she didn't deserve AT LEAST 45 days in jail? Would you want to be on the road anywhere in the same vicinity ? Lets stop this "feel sorry for Paris" party. Anyone else in the same circumstances should also go directly to jail, do not pass go, and do not collect $200.



Sinergy -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/10/2007 5:00:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbob726

Lets get real here - this third time, the one she went to jail for, was as follows:
She was driving at a high rate of speed, estimated at "in excess of 90 MPH", on a suspended license, under the influence, with no headlights on, and under court supervision, in the wee hours of the morning. How does anyone think she didn't deserve AT LEAST 45 days in jail? Would you want to be on the road anywhere in the same vicinity ? Lets stop this "feel sorry for Paris" party. Anyone else in the same circumstances should also go directly to jail, do not pass go, and do not collect $200.



As Katylied pointed out, she went to jail for violating her parole, not for driving under the infuence.

How she succeeded in violating her parole (driving under the influence) is not relevant to her being
forced to do jail time.

The way probation works is, instead of serving time in jail, the person agrees to walk the straight and narrow for a period of time until their probation is up.  Failure to do that means the person goes back to jail and serves their sentence.

There really is no reason to rush to her defense for driving under the influence, or even attack her for driving under the influence and insisting she do jail time.  Driving under the influence is not why she is Doing Time In The Big House.

Sinergy



kittinSol -> RE: Paris Hilton Released After Just 3 Days in Jail (6/10/2007 7:27:08 PM)

If you scroll back up and read my earlier posts, you will find that equality of treatment under the law is a concern of mine, actually. I'm certainly not in favour of a two-tier justice system.

What I am suggesting, however, is that people are so successfully manipulated by the media, they don't even realise it! People who are getting their knickers in a twist over Paris Hilton (a laughable person, in herself, and certainly not a threat to MY freedom) are the puppets of the tabloids, trash television, and other websites of dubious informative value.

Yes, justice is morally corrupt, and fuck, it sucks Hilton seems to have benefited from it (though she's now back in the nick, no doubt much to the pleasure of many - but is this what matters?), but really, do you believe it's by concentrating on a low-level personality such as Hilton that you are going to get your message heard? Nope. That will only excite the mass media even more.

If you truly believe in improving the fairness of the justice system, you have to write to your congressman/woman and set up a committee and organise demonstrations.

In our democracies, the people we elect don't listen to us until we risk our lives and reputations getting heard: and that's unfair too [sm=rolleyes.gif]



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