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RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 3:00:14 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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I don't get that either - how can references be important and yet, not with the current partner? - that is like saying one thing and meaning another. Consistancy is far more important than contradiction.

And how can a reference from a previous partner tell you what they are like? People have good break up sure - but the majority aren't always like that - so what if they cannot provide references like that?

What happened to 'preaching' commen sense?

Peace

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 41

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 3:42:48 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Persoanlly its a BIG red flag if someone doesn't have them or when I ask, if they say 'no.' What are they hiding? Are they really that new? Are they married? etc. Even if its just referances from lifetsyle friends. Besides, I also check more than just referances before I get into a regular/steady relationship with someone, I'm cautious, I have to be, at the end of the day, my responsibility is to go home to my son; Not the morgue.

My current partner an I have not discussed referances, we have known eachother for years though, if he wants referances, sure, he can have them, I have nothing to hide.

Ignoring the blatant contradiction...

So the automatic assumption is that someone who doesnt want his personal friends to be hassled by some stranger doing an extensive background check just so she can get past her own paranoia of meeting them in a public place is hiding something? Is this what they teach in formal training?

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 42

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 3:43:41 PM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I don't get the part about references being so important and flaggy but yet not with your current partner?

Referances are like anything else, if it helps to make someone feel more secure than why not? I have them, I am damn proud of them. I enjoy things htat I would NOT do with a partner who didn't have experience in them, so referaces are a great way to find out.

I have known my current partner for OVER 3 years, we are friends above all else; if we had just met {not had a history}, of course I would ask for referances.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 43

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 3:51:05 PM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
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Yes, meeting someone is kinda like a job interview; sad to say, but its true. You need to know about someone to make a logical and smart decision. Actually, being safe WAS part of my training, to run background checks, ask for CDL, full name, home number, set up safe calls, etc. I'm not paranoid, I'm cautious, I have a small child to think about; most of you may not know what its like to almost die, but I certainly as hell do; my priority is to my child, so yes, I take extra precautions, its calling being a RESPONSIBLE single mother.

Now with part of what I moon-light doing, I get the info I need very easily, I still ask for referances on occassion, no real need for it, I get info other ways.

What ask for referances? Because, its how I was trained, its responsible to ask others who know Mr. Xyz and besides, what does someone have to hide?

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 44

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:03:21 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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Well...I would consider that an invasion of my privacy and we wont go very far.

Now...as far as references...lets say I were to meet you...you give me a list of references I call to gather information for you.

They tell me your super cool and all that good stuff...but I have absolutely no idea who any of these people are, how well they know you, how long they have known you, etc.

So how good is this information exactly? I can give you a list of strangers who know very little about me and would still stay "Hey, hes a cool guy."

Now you want my full name, address, driver's license number, and I would assume maybe SSN so you can do a background check on me. So here I am, handing out all this personal information to someone is still pretty much a complete stranger to me. She can get my work information, my family information, all kinds of information regarding my private life...

What exactly makes you so special that I should provide all this information to you when we havent even met or even after a few dates?

All I have is the list of strangers I dont even know who say you are cool...

Next thing...your a psycho stalker with serious emotional problems. You got all my personal information. You got all these references who are friends of mine. Haressing phone calls, dead cats being sent in the mail, locks of hair on my moms front door...

Why are you so trustworthy that I should fork over contact information for references and in depth personal information that would give you access to many areas of my life?

Because...you have references???

Would you be willing to fork over the same personal information to me so I can do an in depth background check when I am still a stranger? You want it from me so I should expect it from you. Then next think you know...I'm a psycho who now knows where your son lives...

And why do I have something to hide because I want to protect myself from a stranger who could take all this nifty information and become one huge pain in the ass to a lot of people?

I would be curious to know how giving all this personal information to the people we are so afraid of to do background checks isnt decreasing our safety level and improving it...

Call me crazy and have something to hide, but I am not going to fork over tons of private information that gives someone extensive access to my private life just so we can drink a cup of coffee...

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/7/2007 4:09:19 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 45

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:03:40 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I've always kind of laughed at the idea of giving references because some of the women I've served in the past were outright nuts. Others were great. But honestly, I'm not sure I'd want to include anyone's name in a reference for me. I kind of think of it as I'd still be with that person if she was going to give me a glowing reference.

If they were nuts, why were you in a relationship with them anyway? That would be a red flag for some women, because they would wonder if you served women who were nuts but chose to ignore it, or they just "became" nuts after the break up and it's because of bad blood.

My post was somewhat of a joke. I have great respect for almost everyone I've ever served and had a relationship with. Only once did I ever date someone who I felt was completely nuts, and when I finally figured it out, part of the problem was that she refused to allow the relationship to end.

_____________________________

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http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
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(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 46

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:11:29 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
I have known my current partner for OVER 3 years, we are friends above all else; if we had just met {not had a history}, of course I would ask for referances.

But you didn't have a history when you met- which is the same story with everyone when we first meet.

Did you form all your strong feelings about references only after you developed a relationship with your partner?

First you make a big deal about them- even saying its BIG RED FLAGS if they don't meet your reference criteria and seriously advising people about them...and yet you didn't employ them in one of the primary relationships in your life and don't see that as a contradiction?

How can you expect people to take your advice seriously if you don't take it yourself?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 47

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:17:28 PM

EvilGeoff

Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

References are a tool, folks. No more. No less. If the tool does what you need doing, you use it. if it doesn't, leave it in the tool box and go on to something else.

I have provided references in the past, I have asked for references. I have been asked to give references about people. *shrug*

No big deal.

Some people I have had to say "I've known him for years. Never seen him play though, so I can't comment on his play style. In my dealings with him, he has never given me any reason to doubt his honesty or integrity, but we are not terribly close...." etc.

*shrugs*

References are not the single overiding factor to decide "Meet or don't meet." They are just one of many things to consider. Let the "totality of the evidence" sway your decision.

YIK,
- Geoff

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

Post #: 48

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:18:01 PM

Donnalee

Posts: 339
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

Slaverosebeauty says...

quote:

If you dont like what I say, then stop reading.

Good point.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 49

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:23:24 PM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

Submissive meets Dom online, they meet in person and click. Dom spends time at submissives house. Within a week $1,000+ worth of charges are made to her credit card. Dom had lifted the card from her purse. Police get called in, Dom has card in possession. Dom has previous criminal record. If only she had know about it ahead of time.

People are starting to use background checks more and more, for screening people they meet on dating sites, regardless if it's vanilla or not. This practice is slowly becoming more common. Plus you don't need to know all the information about somebody to do this. Name, Address and Date of Birth generally is enough to start a background check on somebody.

While I have not done this myself, I am aware of people doing this. Some people are doing this to screen babysitters and other people that they let into their homes and lives.

Nice to know if somebody has a criminal record or not. Perhaps you are letting a con artistic into your life and don't even realize it. Too many people have been getting burned and these type of services are being used more and more. Yes, I know this is all Big Brother is watching you kind of stuff.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 50

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:23:52 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Donnalee
Slaverosebeauty says...
quote:

If you dont like what I say, then stop reading.

Good point.

The irony that this is in a reference thread.

A reference is a judgement about a person. According to SRB, she was trained and finds these judgements to be very important and even necessary when getting to know someone (except for her partner).

And yet she thinks that, instead of getting more information from the source, pointing out to others that this/she might be a bad source of advice, we should instead simply ignore her and let things go along?

I don't consider myself some paragon of goodness and judgement, and I don't make myself responsible for the boards, but, as Erin's other thread so well said, we do have SOME responsibility for helping to weed out the crap advice from the good.

And we can't do that if we just ignore it all the time. Sure, eventually they hang themselves and people will make up their own minds whichever way, but when it comes to blatant contradictions...well I guess I just can't resist.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Donnalee)

Post #: 51

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:25:19 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Yes, meeting someone is kinda like a job interview; sad to say, but its true. You need to know about someone to make a logical and smart decision.

This isnt a job interview. There is no company who is accountable. Just people who you may have never, ever met - some people (using your example)who may allow people with restraining orders to attend their munch if they are co-ordinators which you may have no clue of.

How comes they are trustworthy? Who is really trust worthy to give a reference?

quote:

most of you may not know what its like to almost die

I can think of at least 3 regular posters here who can and I am sure there are a hell of alot more people who can relate they just chose not to express it.

I don't understand how a person can give advice they don't follow themselves and believe people will heed their advice.

Peace

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 52

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 4:29:35 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

What ask for referances? Because, its how I was trained, its responsible to ask others who know Mr. Xyz and besides, what does someone have to hide?

I guess you were trained extessively to give bad advice that you dont follow yourself.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 53

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 5:01:17 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Yes, meeting someone is kinda like a job interview; sad to say, but its true. You need to know about someone to make a logical and smart decision. Actually, being safe WAS part of my training, to run background checks, ask for CDL, full name, home number, set up safe calls, etc. I'm not paranoid, I'm cautious, I have a small child to think about; most of you may not know what its like to almost die, but I certainly as hell do; my priority is to my child, so yes, I take extra precautions, its calling being a RESPONSIBLE single mother.

Now with part of what I moon-light doing, I get the info I need very easily, I still ask for referances on occassion, no real need for it, I get info other ways.

What ask for referances? Because, its how I was trained, its responsible to ask others who know Mr. Xyz and besides, what does someone have to hide?

I am still interested in this constant reference you make to your training. How were you trained and by whom? What form did this training take? How did you meet the person that trained you? You are constantly talking about your training so I think it only fair that you give us some insight into this training.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 54

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 6:24:47 PM

Tristan

Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline

I'm not sure I understand the point of references. You have no idea who these people are so how can you trust what they say? Why be in such a hurry to "play"?

I think it's a much better idea to spend time in public until you are comfortable with each other. Then, maybe try a dinner or two or something else in private with no "play". I also tend to trust my instincts, which are usually right.

I tend to take the trust but verify approach to dating. Make sure you confirm real names, addresses, and car lisence numbers. Do a search to see what turns up online. Make sure you talk enough so that you would notice contridictions, and also talk about values. It's very hard for a lier to keep his or her lies straight. I'm also guessing that the really dangerous people have a history that you can easily find online, but there are always the first times.

I personally would never give references, but I'm really not interested in "play" without romance. I would feel that calling friends would be incredibly invasive to my friends.

Tristan

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 55

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 7:48:58 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

Here is another problem with references. That chat room, the Southern Submissives room on AOL, was a place where most of the Doms and subs knew each other real time from various kinds of get-togethers, including scenes. There were some in D/s relationships, some friends, some who played casually and other over lapping types of present and past relationships. Giving references in that setting made it public knowledge whom they had played with and many didn't want it to be known.

Say I had a brief scene with this beautiful, intelligent sub and I wanted to let others know I had Domed this woman, in an attempt to increase my self-importance, although she would rather I not say anything because she didn’t want a future Dom to know she had played with others or simply because she valued her privacy.

If I told others to contact her and she would give me a reference, pretty soon everyone in that room would know I had played with her, including possibly a Dom she liked who thought she had never really played or didn’t like me for whatever reason. If my lifestyle and the way I played was pretty well known, it could be a value judgment on her. Of course it could also be the Dom desiring privacy.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Tristan)

Post #: 56

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 7:51:51 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Gosh I know that room, thanks for the reminder again why I don't do chat rooms anymore.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 57

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 8:06:50 PM

Joseff

Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline

Without breaking down the whole subject, it is my opinion that any information about a potential partner is useful. Take in any and all references, and use them to help you make the most informed judgement. Don't rely solely on them, of course, your own impressions are also usefull, trust your intuition. Remember, its better to risk the chance of missing the perfect person, than getting attatched to the wrong one. There are dangers in this game we play, always try to err on the side of caution.
Joseff

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 58

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 8:11:30 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Gosh I know that room, thanks for the reminder again why I don't do chat rooms anymore.

And I wasn't going to tell anyone you were that beautiful, intelligent sub. Heh.

Yeah, the old Southern Subs Room was something. Seriously, you used to hang out in there? E-mail me the name you used in there some time and I will tell you mine.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 59

RE: Giving References - 6/7/2007 8:34:04 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I myself only hung in there briefly, mostly I did the Novice Female Subs room. My name was EmeraldSlave2, same as my alter ego here.

My first masters other slave was the one who hung out there all the time and went to the gatherings.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 60

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