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RE: At what point? - 6/12/2007 7:31:53 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

While I am not familiar with the other post, the fact is that some things ARE testosterone or estrogen driven, as I am sure you are aware.


Of course. Or, strongly influenced by it, at least. The hormones are the tide, the behaviours are the waves.

quote:

Pointing out rude behavior is not a hormonal driven trait.


How did you infer this from what I said?

quote:

Argumentively trying to assert your position does tend to be testosterone driven.


I hope, then, that by "argumentatively" you mean something else than what I read into that word.

Because my testosterone levels are probably lower than yours.

Seriously.

quote:

Curious Lord's general approach to most posts tend to be "I'm smarter than all of you, watch me use big words and amaze and confound."


Well, maybe a little bit, occasionally. Mostly, though, I get the impression that he's just being playful and not conveying it properly.

That, and not yet having come to see the value of diversity. I was the same, pretty much, until life showed me that while intelligence may be a figure of merit, it is not intrinsically a value or virtue. Since then, I've come to appreciate other traits a lot better. I'd like to imagine hindsight gives insight. And I have a bit of grounds for "getting inside his head" in that regard. I really don't get those vibes as strongly from him as they used to a little while ago.

quote:

He also gets more and more argumentative when his words fail to confound and when his analogies are proven to fall flat. That is not because of testosterone, but rather because of who he is.


If he's anything like me at that age, I imagine it is more a case of trying to balance his desire to be polite and "play nice" with his frustration at not succeeding at making people understand what he's saying, and the humor enters into the equation as a means of balancing it out. Hence, the attempts at explaining better come across differently.

Personally, I prefer to use headbanging instead. That kind of headbanging.

However, I usually get what he's saying the first time around, I think, and the most notable instance where I wasn't on the same page, was a case of me not paying attention to his OP.

You're right that it's personality, rather than hormones, though. And I'd credit him with the effort.

quote:

It is tough to walk through life with an "I'm better and more intelligent than everyone around me". Especially when many of the people he is dealing with are highly intelligent people as well.


Well, I haven't tried ascertaining his general intelligence level. From private messages, however, I'd assume a fair bit higher than the average, even with the somewhat unusual distribution on CM, which is, from what I've seen, shifted about 0.5-1σ to the right from the general population, and more fat-tailed than usual.

That doesn't imply equal proficiency in all areas, however. And being very good at a broad range of things (e.g. due to high intelligence), and not being able to express oneself to people can be a very frustrating combination.

quote:

As we grow up, we learn that we are not the smartest person in the room all the time and learn to understand that we may not always be right in our thinking as no one is perfect. Your quote from Hanlon's Razor seems very appropriate there.


Nobody is perfect, though how smart one is does not vary against time. It's a matter of who has the most proficiency appropriate to the task at hand.

I don't see how Hanlon's Razor applies, though. Care to clue me in?

quote:

As I mentioned on an earlier post, some conversations require and deserve your undivided attention.


~nod~

Agree perfectly there.

quote:

When you say to someone "just a moment, I'm on the phone", the appropriate thing to do is to hold all questions until you are off the phone and in a position to talk.


Well, yes, in a synchronous medium. But instant messaging is asynchronous. The messages will still be there when you get back. Hence, without knowing more about what was said, it seems perfectly reasonable to assume that this was the issue, not that he doesn't get that some phonecalls are important.

Personally, if something requires my undivided attention, I don't divide it. Which equates to the other person getting no reply at all, regardless of nagging, until I'm done.

quote:

It is like telling someone to hold on and they keep talking.


People do that all the time.

It's my favourite thing about working from home or wherever:

I don't end up with people coming through the door, ignoring my "hold on", spewing a whole lot of stuff that could be dealt with in a memo next week, nagging me until I give a one-line reply, and then leaving me to spend 2 hours re-wrapping my head around the thing I had 1 minute work left on.

It's a character flaw, but a common one.

quote:

After the last phone conversation where I again attempted to discuss these issues and got no where, I have told him to "sod off".


Well, it's resolved, then.

I wish you better luck next time.

quote:

In other words, while I was completely sure that his behavior was inappropriate in the world that I have been living, I was not completely sure that his behavior was inappropriate in the newer type of relationship that I am looking to have.


What is appropriate in a relationship is up to the people involved to decide.

quote:

Saying "I am what I am, and I screw up sometimes" would have been admitting that he had done something wrong, so yes it might have made a difference.


Whee, my own approach has merit.

quote:

Don't get me wrong, I am not expecting a dom to be perfect. But I am expecting him to be able to admit when he is wrong and offer and apology, and not believe that because he is a dom that it is ok not to.


I don't think anyone expects perfection. Or, if they do, this probably isn't the lifestyle for them. I demand perfection of myself, which drives me onward, but expecting it of myself, or for others to expect it of me, is just unrealistic.

We all have flaws, and I certainly agree it would be appropriate to admit his mistake if he understood what the problem was, though whether apologizing is appropriate is a relationship issue as much as anything else.

I can see other reasons for using that excuse, but none that aren't flawed on some level.

Hope you'll find the one for you.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: At what point? - 6/12/2007 7:44:23 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Only if they lack communication or build false expectations.


Your assertion was that you'd take a lot of things as rude behaviour, and respond in a negative manner, while there is no consensus on the dividing line between rude and not-rude. That constitutes one of the two. Virtually any assumption on social customs will be wrong for a large number of cases, has been my conclusion from studying the variations across social strata, geographical variations, generation gaps, and so forth.

quote:

Expecting consistency is an unrealistic expectation to start with.


Perhaps. Depends on what you mean by "consistency".

If you mean consistency from person to person, then hell, yes. Even inside a fairly homogenous culture, there is little consistency in anything that is ruled by consensus. However, there are a lot of other contexts where consistency is quite realistic, and more where it should be.

quote:

OK well then you have the same sort of relationship IN THAT ASPECT with everyone.


You could view it that way. I view it as being open, rather than having 6.5 billion relationships with a common thread. Hence my comment about openness being a lifestyle in my view. Opening up is something done when something isn't open to begin with.

quote:

Which is what this thread is based on.  He asked a question he thought was fine and public to ask, she had the reaction that this was private information.


Well, that was part of the issue, yes. But not all of it; there were reactions, and the thread went into a lot of speculation about reasons, and so forth. Me, CL and windchymes provided three alternative speculations that were less in tune with the rest of the opinions voiced.

quote:

I didn't say I wouldn't give a response (Why do you ask? is always a good one), I said I wouldn't answer the question.


My mistake, sorry.

And, yes, "why do you ask?" is better in the general case.

quote:

But you seemed surprised and not to understand when someone started talking about having different levels of openness/comfort/intimacy.  Now you seem to act like you completely understand it.


I'm guessing there was a communication problem along the way, then.

Wouldn't be the first time for anyone, least of all me.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: At what point? - 6/13/2007 1:02:22 AM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
Yes a Dom/Domme does have to earn the trust of the slaves/subs he plays with or is seeking to have a LTR with. The slaves/subs can literally be putting their lives in his/her hands. I believe that trust is an integral  part of the foundation that BDSM relationships are built on. Being Dominant does not go hand in hand with being jealouse. This particular Doms error was in being rude, jealouse and possessive to someone he had never met in r/t and who he had no authority over. Proving you are Domly or exerting your Domliness are actually not characteristics of a natural Dom.  As you said he simply is and he doesn't feel the need to show how Domly he is or excuse a mistake or bad behavior with the lame excuse I'm a Dom. I am  a Dominant and not once in 50 years have I ever said those words as a reason for having done something.

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: At what point? - 6/13/2007 1:27:18 AM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
  • LafayetteLady,
    Awhile back you wrote that you didn't believe his "I'm a Dom" line was a red flag for jealousy. I respectfully disagree. That he failed to acknowledge or apologize that he overstepped the line for where your relationship is currently. Those behaviors/questions are indicative of someone with a jealousy problem. That he didn't apologize or acknowledge after you told him your concern and only had the same none responsive excuse, says to me that he isn't a properly socialized man and not a real Dominate. If you choose to keep seeing him I would take a really slow approach.
    I wish you happiness,


< Message edited by Totalmaster4you -- 6/13/2007 1:30:13 AM >


_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: At what point? - 6/13/2007 8:34:10 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

Anyone who uses the excuse "because I'm the dom" is no Dom. It just don't get any simpler than that.
Namaste, Sir Dominic


Would you care to justify this?


Tis simple, Curious. A Dom who is secure in his position, comfortable with his dominance doesn't make up rules for no reason. What they do is usually calculated to generate a certain type of response. Thus if questioned, you should be able to explain, as much as you choose to, what you are looking for. Of course, I'm not saying that subs should be questioning everything their Dom demands. Just that if they have concerns, the Dom is aware enough to explain. If such a Dom decides they do not want to explain, they will say something to the effect "You will see" or "I wish for you to experience this before I explain it". This shows the sub there is a reason for the request, they just aren't allowed to know what it is yet.

Doms who use the "because I'm the Dom" line are fairly screaming that they don't have a reason for their demand. It's a cheap excuse to cover any situation. The OP's issue for instance. He wanted to know who she was talking to, and whether it was another Dom. Now remember they are not in any formal relationship yet. He is being very pushy, and if had a justification for his demand he should have explained it. Instead he used that silly "I'm the Dom" line, which to me, indicates that he either does not have a real reason for asking, or is too embrarassed to admit he is just being nosy or jealous.

For subs/slaves to have the trust in a Dominant, they have to feel that they are being treated with respect according to the conditions they have arranged with their Dominants. That requires honesty from both parties. Using the "I'm the Dom" line is a cop out. It does not build trust or confidence.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

p.s. The only way I can see this phrase being acceptable is a Dom who wants a sub to turn their brain off and blindly accept anything the Dom says. There are relationships like that, and if the parties involved are happy, more power to them. For me, personally, I want a slave who has a brain. Who can talk intelligently, who can ask questions in the manner in which she has been trained, who retains the ability to think for herself even as she immensely desires to serve. I'm a lucky guy in having just that in my slave.

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: At what point? - 6/13/2007 8:54:34 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

To Curious Lord

Being dominant is not a license to be overbearing and rude. 

[...]

You say, "I love my point of view that I'm afforded through virtue of having a high intellect." as well as earlier making the statement that most people are retarded to you.  Making such condescending statements invalidates just about anything you have to say.  It screams of a narcissistic personality.  Narcissists tend to not have much understanding of the real world when it is isn't revolving around them.



Yes, a narcissist and an emotionally insecure person would argue from the single stance that they are misunderstood because they fly high above the herd. Being curious is good, but it implies one is open to change from listening to others (not always, of course, I accept there are such things as personal convictions). However what I've read by the lord so far drives me to the conclusion that he is inexperienced and terribly smug: not the best traits in anyone, let alone a Dom. Sorry, lord, but I think a bigger Dom/me ought to take you out and give you a lesson.



_____________________________



(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: At what point? - 6/14/2007 3:54:01 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Sorry, lord, but I think a bigger Dom/me ought to take you out and give you a lesson.


Thank you for that. It obviates the need for a reference to an external thread.

This is what I was talking about with regard to the beta dominance response.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 67
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