At what point?

At what point? (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> At what point? (6/11/2007 2:31:51 PM)
I have been talking with a potential dominant for some time. We have spoken on the phone and on line pretty frequently. There has been no agreements between us, no "online domming", nothing like that to this point. We are talking and getting to know each other on a personal level. I have been pretty clear that I will not agree or "commit" to anything before we meet face to face. Recently, a couple of things have occurred that I find to be his "prematurely overstepping" the boundaries of where we currently are. The most recent thing that occurred was when he messaged me and I was on the phone with a friend. I messaged back that I was on the phone and couldn't talk at the moment. He then proceeded to question me on who I was on the phone with (I told him a friend), and then asked whether or not they were a dom. In my opinion, we are not in a place where he is yet entitled to know everything I am doing. He is aware of several things that are going on in my life at the moment that regularly require my attention, and it seemed to me that his questions were inappropriate at the time. In all honesty, had he accepted the fact that I was unable to talk at that moment, when I was done with my phone call, I would have likely told him about the conversation I was involved in. His continued messaging with questions about the who, what, when, etc. just pretty much pissed me off. I realize that everyone has their own "process", but I don't agree or partake in any of the "cyber domming" that many do, and have made that very clear to anyone I speak with. I am very clear that until we meet face to face, we are nothing more than two people with common interests. That once that face to face occurs, at that time decisions will be made as to how to proceed. My reasoning behind this is that I am looking for something in real life, face to face on a daily basis, and for me, the cyber stuff would interfere with that. Again, I realize that it is fine for some, just not for me. So my question is at what point is it considered appropriate to start making demands? We had no agreements, other than talking about that face to face, and I feel that his behavior was an attempt to assume a position he does not yet have. Yes, I am the type that believes until such time as we have entered into a lifestyle relationship, no one "owns" me and their rights over my activities are basically non existent. I don't mislead anyone into thinking otherwise though, so if they have continued to wish to speak with me, they know my position on such matters.

MagiksSlave -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 2:36:21 PM)
it is apropriate to start makeing demands when you both agree the time is right. he can make demands when ever he wishes you just dont have to stick around if you havent agreed to it yet. Magik's slave

Quivver -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 2:53:32 PM)
Making of demands may or may not have a ~proper~ time. What's more important is when you follow them without question. just my 2 cents.....

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 3:21:37 PM)
When you are both cool with it. His question is odd to me, is there some expectation of exclusivity between you both? Why would he specifically ask if it was another dom? Anyway, this is where that whole "communication" and "work through issues" sort of thing comes in. He might have thought he was asking innocent questions and you were oversensitive. Or he might have been laying a trap and hoping you'd go into it so he could start pushing further. So talk about it "I felt uncomfortable and a bit pushed when you asked who I was with on the phone. Was there a reason you were asking those questions other than casual interest?" and define exactly what you feel is ok and what's crossing the line. You don't need to type out a list or anything, just some general ideas and guidelines that you BOTH feel happy with.

earthycouple -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 3:38:16 PM)
It seems to me that he's threatened by the possibility you are entertaining other dominants but not him. I take this as a yellow warning flag. I would explain how this made you feel and that while everyone has their own comfort level yours is XYZ and if he can respect that great if not, it is time to move on. I would weigh this occurance with any other "strange" behavior in accordance with what you have he have deemed inapproriate at this time to further decide if there is more going on beyond casual interest.

LadyHeart -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 4:27:32 PM)
I would see it as simple bad manners. Forget the D/s - to interrupt someone who has told you that they are busy on the phone is rude. If he has issues then he can discuss them when you are free. It is a good indication that D/s will cross over into ordinary life in inappropriate ways, and that you will not be treated with ordinary poiteness. I would be looking at his manners in general and deciding if I felt I could live with them long term. :)) LH

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 4:46:45 PM)
i just can not improve one bit on what she said. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHeart I would see it as simple bad manners. Forget the D/s - to interrupt someone who has told you that they are busy on the phone is rude. If he has issues then he can discuss them when you are free. It is a good indication that D/s will cross over into ordinary life in inappropriate ways, and that you will not be treated with ordinary poiteness. I would be looking at his manners in general and deciding if I felt I could live with them long term. :)) LH

SimplyMichael -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 5:00:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross When you are both cool with it. His question is odd to me, is there some expectation of exclusivity between you both? Why would he specifically ask if it was another dom? Anyway, this is where that whole "communication" and "work through issues" sort of thing comes in. He might have thought he was asking innocent questions and you were oversensitive. Or he might have been laying a trap and hoping you'd go into it so he could start pushing further. So talk about it "I felt uncomfortable and a bit pushed when you asked who I was with on the phone. Was there a reason you were asking those questions other than casual interest?" and define exactly what you feel is ok and what's crossing the line. You don't need to type out a list or anything, just some general ideas and guidelines that you BOTH feel happy with. What she said, although I agree with earthy couple as well!!!! One of the reasons I agree with LA is great relationships don't just happen, they are created. A large part of that is learning not just to work through issues but to demonstrate over time that issues can be brought up and discussed and then solutions found all inside a loving caring place rather than an adversarial one. While the guy sounds insecure perhaps with a bit of calm discussion he might find the space to put that beside him. Having found that more secure space who knows what he might in turn offer her. I realize I at times join the chorus of "dump him/her" but I wonder if in our haste we reject people who may have become an amazing part of our life. I rejected and blocked my current partner, a woman who, if I have my way, I will spend the rest of my life with. We have had a few bumps, but we have calmly talked things out, made each other feel safe and came out of our disagreements stronger and closer than ever.

windchymes -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 5:05:12 PM)
Instead of taking it at face value, I read between the lines that he digs you and was feeling the green-eyed jealousy monster. Yes, he handled it rudely by repeatedly messaging you while you were talking, that was wrong. You don't say how old he is, it might just be immaturity. A more mature and secure person would let you finish your phone call in peace, no matter who he thought it might be. But, if you've been talking for awhile, and this is the worst thing he's done that you consider 'over-stepping', I wouldn't let it be a deal-breaker just yet. I agree that it's a yellow-flag to watch. You mentioned "other" things that have made you uncomfortable.....? He also might just be confused with what's acceptable "dom behavior" and what's expected "dom behavior". He might think he's being "domly" by questioning you. I've talked to quite a few guys who have been confused by things they read in here and by emails they're received from subs who say they're not "domly enough" for them, etc. when they were being considerate or polite, and they think there are things that are expected of them to be considered "dom enough". My gut feeling, though, is that he's just really into you and had a flash of jealousy that he handled badly. But I could be wrong.

sapphirepleasure -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 5:18:32 PM)
I can identify with your quaundry, having had a similar one myself recently. I had begun getting to know a dom--exchanging emails, then almost daily im-ing, and the occasional phone call--when he said something that really raised a red flag. In discussing what each of us would desire from the other, he told me that he would want all my passwords to all my accounts, and that he wished he already had them--this after a scant week of getting to know each other and still more than a month away from a planned meeting. He also wanted me to only orgasm with his permission (starting now) and begin wearing a ribbon around my thigh to remind me of him. Oh, and he wanted permission to phone me at any time day or night as we're in vastly different time zones. I don't know if these are things I would have eventually felt comfortable with surrendering to him, but as it was, the prematurity of him them of me really caused me to question the entire connection, and I told him I felt he was moving too fast and wanted him to slow down. His response? He thanked me for sharing how I felt and then never initiated another contact again. Oh well. It just didn't feel right to me, and I'm glad I spoke up.

Joseff -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 5:31:47 PM)
It really does sound like he has a possessive nature, and that can be a warning sign of other bad behavior. I would advise proceeding with extreem caution, keeping an eye out for any other signs. I'm sure this site is full of safety procedures and good ideas to protect yourself in early relationships and first meetings etc... Joseff

Totalmaster4you -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 6:34:02 PM)
The question I'd ask is how long you've been talking. If it's been 2-3 months of talking every day then he may be feeling like you're holding him at arms length while looking for the BBD.(that's Bigger Better Deal). If there are other warning signs you've picked up on you might keep going slowly but have clear conversation and tell him where he stands. If you're considering others as well as him tell him so he knows he has to compete for you. If he drops off and then your better off knowing now. If you've been talking less than a month then it's a big red flag for me. Jealosy may feel good at first , being wanted so much. However it tends to get worse and become irrational, so if he's exhibiting signs of possessiveness run the other way unless you like to be micro managed. So to answer your specific question about timing there is no hard or fast rule. If I had to put something in stone it would be this: Until you say the words, I beg a collar or I beg to be your slave or if he asks you to wear his collar and you say yes, you are under no obligation to him. No amount of time gives him the right to demand anything until you give it to him.

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 6:36:51 PM)
I have to agree with many, that he definitely had that territorial male thing going. However, proceed cautiously with someone who displays jealousy so soon . A lot of times jealousy denotes insecurity within himself, and a bit of immaturity.And sometimes that jealousy turns into,.. everything ,..being your fault.So hence a Dominant with so little control within himself, can be a bit undesireable...Tempting

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 6:38:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Totalmaster4you The question I'd ask is how long you've been talking. If it's been 2-3 months of talking every day then he may be feeling like you're holding him at arms length while looking for the BBD.(that's Bigger Better Deal). If there are other warning signs you've picked up on you might keep going slowly but have clear conversation and tell him where he stands. If you're considering others as well as him tell him so he knows he has to compete for you. If he drops off and then your better off knowing now. If you've been talking less than a month then it's a big red flag for me. Jealosy may feel good at first , being wanted so much. However it tends to get worse and become irrational, so if he's exhibiting signs of possessiveness run the other way unless you like to be micro managed. So to answer your specific question about timing there is no hard or fast rule. If I had to put something in stone it would be this: Until you say the words, I beg a collar or I beg to be your slave or if he asks you to wear his collar and you say yes, you are under no obligation to him. No amount of time gives him the right to demand anything until you give it to him. Wow...what he said....

RealDom69 -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 7:02:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHeart I would see it as simple bad manners. Forget the D/s - to interrupt someone who has told you that they are busy on the phone is rude. If he has issues then he can discuss them when you are free. It is a good indication that D/s will cross over into ordinary life in inappropriate ways, and that you will not be treated with ordinary poiteness. I would be looking at his manners in general and deciding if I felt I could live with them long term. :)) LH I would agree entirely but add, that he's displaying early signs of jealousy, and jealousy implies ownership, or possesiveness.. take care :)) Johnny Reble

EvilGeoff -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 7:19:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady ... until such time as we have entered into a lifestyle relationship, no one "owns" me and their rights over my activities are basically non existent... Exactly so. DomlyDom can try, but unless you surrender that power/authority/right to him, he can't say didley squat. Nuff said! - Geoff

LadyHeart -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 7:31:41 PM)
Thinking it over a bit more, it occurs to me that you wouldn't be asking this question as the result of a single incident. There have probably been other things that have been making you uneasy. Maybe it's time to kick back and look at the big picture. We don't all have the same expectations as far as BDSM is concerned. Some people are purists and want BDSM to infiltrate every part of life. Others want some boundaries. We are all made differently. I have an article in the Journal section of my profile about expectations. Working out our expectations really precedes all other negotiations. It might be something to think about at this point, because your underlying assumptions about what a D/s relationship entails may not be matching up. :)) LH

RealDom69 -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 7:54:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHeart Thinking it over a bit more, it occurs to me that you wouldn't be asking this question as the result of a single incident. There have probably been other things that have been making you uneasy. Maybe it's time to kick back and look at the big picture. We don't all have the same expectations as far as BDSM is concerned. Some people are purists and want BDSM to infiltrate every part of life. Others want some boundaries. We are all made differently. I have an article in the Journal section of my profile about expectations. Working out our expectations really precedes all other negotiations. It might be something to think about at this point, because your underlying assumptions about what a D/s relationship entails may not be matching up. :)) LH Yes this is absolutely correct, however in your position I think I would be more concerned with His expectations, perhaps that needs to be clarified.. good luck for the future .. :)) Johnny Reble

juliaoceania -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 8:45:23 PM)
quote: So my question is at what point is it considered appropriate to start making demands? Obviously it was not appropriate to you, and that is all that matters really, what you feel is appropriate. Another person might feel completely differently about it. Sincerely I am wondering why you bothered asking us all this. You seem so sure of your emotional response to this event, I wonder what you are looking for in posting this thread. I think we all have rights to associate with whomever we want, if you have changed your mind about this person, then you have. You do not even need an excuse to change your mind about him, just you are not well suited because [insert reason here] seems adequate. I have spoken with such individuals before. I dismissed them as being wrong for me... To me the behavior you point out is not about power exchange, but insecurity. It is not about Ds, but about someone who needs to control from a place of jealousy... I am one that believes a little jealousy is kinda normal (especially in the beginning), but when it goes into someone controlling my behavior based upon their unstable emotional states, I just pass. Edited to add, there was one occasion that my Daddy made a jealous comment under his breath when I had to rush him off the phone about me "waiting for a call from another dom", but he did not belabor the point and he dropped it. We had not met yet, but we really dug each other. Like others have said, yellow flag.

slaverosebeauty -> RE: At what point? (6/11/2007 8:47:30 PM)
That 'point' is when its agreed on. Negotiation and understanding and trust come into play; if your top-type doesn't trust you and starts giving you the 3rd degree when things are still new, then you need to evaluate where things are; a relationship is a two-way street. Talk to your partner and ASK him what is going on and communicate. Communication is paramount in a healthy M/s relationship. My current SO an I have few 'agreements' yet, I do let him know a LOT of what is going on, I volunteer information and he always asks me what my week looks like, if things change, I do tell him out of respect. My SO does NOT 'own' me, yet, out of respect for him and for our developing relationship, I do defer things to him and let him know, thats how our dynamic works though.

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