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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 12:45:24 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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This is basically a POV issue... so some people it's surrender and others it is not.  Some slaves find it difficult at times to fully give of themselves.  Read the begging threads.  A sub/slave would have to surrender a part inside herself inorder to beg, based on a lot of the posts I read there.

Now, give or surrender... it all involves submission.  There are many paths that led to the same place.   Which path people take to get there, it all depends upon the individuals and their relationships.

Again this is a POV issue, and there will be differences in the paths taken.


(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 12:58:28 PM   
charismagirrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

A sub/slave would have to surrender a part inside herself inorder to beg, based on a lot of the posts I read there.



Wow, this really sheds the light i thought about the other night when i went skating and to the driving range with my Daddy. i am much more deeply surrendered to him than i was back in January and for the first time i just didn't care about anyone looking and passing judgement on me, i let go and had the most fun i've had in a really long time (skating) because i was simply obeying and doing what my Daddy wanted of me.

Surrender can be sooooo good.

(thanks for posting this, it mirrors what was going through my mind thus giving me validation in what i thought was going on)


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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 1:08:29 PM   
charmdpetKeira


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quote:

Milivoje: IMO players seek to surrender.

Lifestylers seek to mutually explore.
 

I prefer to say others have different agendas then me, but not necessarily with the intent of being a “player”.
 
I feel the person who sent that e-mail to me, was sincere in his idea of what is important in a D/s relationship. However, for me, the most important part, is the energy that is derived by the power exchange; an energy that creates desire for each person to feed off. (not sure I worded that right)

quote:

Happypervert:

. . . and then they ride off to a castle in the sky in a carriage drawn by pink unicorns.
 

Why does my version, to the conclusion of this story, involve being locked up in a cage, until needed for use?.. lol :)

quote:

Yeah, I agree with you. That statement above sounds like it came from someone who read the Castles Realm website or too many Harlequin Romance novels.


I was thinking “Sleeping Beauty” the adult version. Perhaps I just gave myself the answer to my own question above? *grins*

quote:

Imthatacheyouhav:

Surrendering works for me... I don't mind that my willfulness is "defeated" by my Master... i personally have already subscribed to the notion that i have, and will continue to surrender to my Master.... i don't feel defeated...i feel free and liberated.


I can appreciate that. It would be helpful to me, in understanding your perspective, if you would describe what you refer to as “willfulness”; if you don’t mind.

quote:

Slaverosebeauty:

Sounds like the person is talking about a power struggle where in this case the submissive stuggles against 'His power' and wants to remain free. If a submissive wants to remain free, then why in the heck would she be in that kind of relationship.
 

I believe he sees the relationship, in its entirety as a “taking”; which is where he and I differ.

quote:

I know that when I 'surrender' myself to something I give myself over to it, maybe not defeat per se, but, I do give over power to that 'thing' [person, place, idea, etc]. I don't see it as defeat though, more as a new path.  
 

Part of the reason I posted this thread. I was thinking; if the word for those like me is not “surrender”; then what?

Thank you all, for your replys.

Sincerely,

k


< Message edited by charmdpetKeira -- 6/13/2007 1:10:26 PM >


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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 1:24:01 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

Part of the reason I posted this thread. I was thinking; if the word for those like me is not “surrender”; then what?
This statement/question provoked something in my head.  One of my favourite quotes/song lyrics is 'I surrender to Gravity and the Unknown'.  I think that I see a difference between submission and surrender (even though some others have likened them as similar) that submission is something I consciously do, surrender I have no choice in doing and is a natural occurence to something that is inevitable.
 
Not all submission is inherent, surrender to me is the part that is inherent in a person... be that dominant or submissive or switch or gay or male or female - my 'problem' is when it is used in the context of the example you gave.  Someone writing like that is manipulating and romanticising the notion of surrender, when to me, it isn't even slightly romantic but hard and a realisation that we can't control everything we feel and is a fluid and natural internal and personal construct.
 
Peace
the.dark.


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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 1:27:39 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Very different concepts.  Let's not forget that masters surrender also.

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 1:32:16 PM   
SlaveSubtoserve


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...or recognizing, feeling, and giving yourself over to the overwhelming power of your Mistress or Master??

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 1:39:01 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Very different concepts.  Let's not forget that masters surrender also.

Absolutely.
So many times I see people dismiss masters/dominants/tops surrender or just act like it can't and never exists.
But without it a relationship is doomed.
Without surrender from all parties involved - any relationship is fucked.
 
Peace
the.dark.


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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 1:52:01 PM   
charmdpetKeira


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quote:

Celeste43
To me surrendering has a nuance of resignation, of unhappiness. Therefore I wouldn't use it or respond to someone who announced this as the goal during an early email. But that's me. There are subs here who like this idea.

I feel the same way; due to my own personal experiences, of course.

quote:

I prefer not to believe that I am helpless, powerless, without choice. I chose him after careful consideration which he would be the first to tell someone. I came to know him, to trust him, to respect him and to hand over control willingly as a result.

 
*smiles*

quote:

I'm not sure the end results are that different, but different words have different nuances and they influence our view of ourselves and of our relationships. 
 
 
Agreed.
 
quote:


Darcyandthedark:

I don't see surrender as a negative word.  In fact I believe most people forget that surrender is more an unconscious act that both the submissive and the dominant are released by.
 
 
The word is hard for me to relate to because; I once lost “self”; under completely different circumstances, but none the less, in a very real sense.
 
I can almost relate to what you’re saying here; I just think we use different terms for it; perhaps. It might be helpful for me to understand better, what the word means to you, if you described a situation in which this takes place. If you don’t mind.
 
quote:


MasterFireMaam:

Surrender can mean to "turn over to" as well.

 
Would you please describe what this would look like?
 
For me, the term indicates a shutting down of one or more parts. While I can relate to the idea of not indulging in an act, until allowed to perform said act, but not the thought of having to close off, or shut down a part of me.
 
quote:


It's all about perspective and semantics.
 
 
I agree.
 
Thank you all, for your thoughts.
 
Sincerely,
 
k

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There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 1:55:28 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira
 
quote:


Darcyandthedark:

I don't see surrender as a negative word.  In fact I believe most people forget that surrender is more an unconscious act that both the submissive and the dominant are released by.
 
 
The word is hard for me to relate to because; I once lost “self”; under completely different circumstances, but none the less, in a very real sense.
 
I can almost relate to what you’re saying here; I just think we use different terms for it; perhaps. It might be helpful for me to understand better, what the word means to you, if you described a situation in which this takes place. If you don’t mind.
 

Let me know if my last post help or made any sense and answered what I feel surrender 'is' to me.  If not - I will try to elabourate and give a personal example.
 
Peace
the.dark.


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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 1:56:50 PM   
onmykneesforhim


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I love wikapedia, Can this mean submission ???
I should have looked here a while ago. Or did it just make submission more *dangerous*? Is it looked at like that a Master/Mistress is our center/diety?
 
Surrender (spirituality and psychology)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 Surrender in spirituality and religion means that a believer completely gives up his own will and subjects his thoughts, ideas, and deeds to the will and teachings of a divine power or deity. The concept plays a role in several religions, such as Christianity, Islam (a word which literally means "submission"), Sikhism, and Hinduism, as well as some mystic and esoteric traditions.
The term is also used in a similar manner, in some schools and approaches to psychology, in which sense it is an antonym of hostility, signifying something akin to acceptance of ones own nature and that of the world.

//


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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 2:47:36 PM   
slaverosebeauty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira
quote:

Slaverosebeauty:
Sounds like the person is talking about a power struggle where in this case the submissive stuggles against 'His power' and wants to remain free. If a submissive wants to remain free, then why in the heck would she be in that kind of relationship.
 

I believe he sees the relationship, in its entirety as a “taking”; which is where he and I differ.


Relationships are all about give and take, its not 50/50; it might end up close in the end to that balance, yet, one partner gives more in some ways and takes more in some ways. I looked up the definition of surrender and one of the definitions was, "to give oneself up, as into the power of another; submit or yield." Thats what those of us who are of the submissive nature do at soem point, we 'submit.' I don't believe that one can take what is not theirs to take or what is not offered.

quote:


quote:

I know that when I 'surrender' myself to something I give myself over to it, maybe not defeat per se, but, I do give over power to that 'thing' [person, place, idea, etc]. I don't see it as defeat though, more as a new path.  
 

Part of the reason I posted this thread. I was thinking; if the word for those like me is not “surrender”; then what?


What about 'submit'? Thats another word for surrender, if the word surrender means 'defeate' to you, then maybe you should just replace that word with another. I will be the first to admit that when I was growing up the idea of submitting to another {Christian beliefs state that a woman should be 'submissive to her husband'} was so far out of my scope I was appauled by the thought, then I go a wakeup call, and realized, it WAS what I wanted, needed, craved and must have, deep down.

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 3:15:15 PM   
sleazybutterfly


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I don't mind the word surrender at all.  In my relationship, I have given over my life, my body, and any control to my M.  I have surrendered my life, my will to another.  This doesn't make me weak or defeated in any way.  It means that I am now under the total authority of the one that I adore.  Yes, it may sound a bit dramatic or fairytailish (I know that's not a word before anyone says anything)...but it's as much real to me as the ground I walk upon.

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Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 8:07:22 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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To the OP..po..ta..toe...po..taaaa.toh...I find myself often amazed by how a single word can create so many verying definitions, reactions..I never realized the English language was so inept at adequate descriptive values...so as in most cases..whatever you want it to be..there it is!..Tempting

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 8:08:53 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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Dear sleazy..just noticed....congratulations on your marriage!!!!..Tempting

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I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 9:07:26 PM   
szobras


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Surrender, and the action of are seen in many ways, as has been pointed out. What do we turn over?, What do we give up? What each person surrenders, and surrenders to, is certainly an individual choice and experience.  In one respect I think it is primarily to oneself that one surrenders. To the awareness and  acknowledgment of who we are, who we have become, and Why. Then, we choose to share in that surrender with and to another.

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:24:40 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

As someone who leans towards Zen/Tao views of life, surrendering is definitely a positive thing.

As a friend very eloquently put it, surrender doesn't mean that when it rains, you accept and get wet and don't do anything.  It means you surrender to what you are/where you are/what life brings you and go from there.  You still go into the house, get the umbrella and take care of business, but you accept/surrender to what IS, and that is where you find bliss.



I agree with the entire Taoist way of looking at surrender, resisting brings friction and conflict, when one moves with the motion of another, surrenders to the pathway they embark upon, they are at peace...

In fact when wars are declared over, one entity surrenders to the other to bring about peace, I will gladly surrender to him for peace in our relationship... no friction, no conflict... only sweet surrender.

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 11:51:08 PM   
TennesseeRain


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Surrendering does not imply defeat to me.  I surrender willingly to my Master...and in doing so, give up my power.  Maybe it is the wording "yields to His power" that is implying defeat to you.  It sounds as though his power is forcing the surrender. To me, a D/s relationship is more than the submissve opening up and connecting with the Dominant.  I think there does have to be a power exchange, but that power exchange is not forced, it is given (surrendered).

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/14/2007 1:37:24 AM   
charmdpetKeira


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quote:


WhiplashSmile:



This is basically a POV issue... so some people it's surrender and others it is not.  Some slaves find it difficult at times to fully give of themselves.  Read the begging threads.  A sub/slave would have to surrender a part inside herself inorder to beg, based on a lot of the posts I read there.
 

I would say my first D/s relationship worked similar to this concept. My willingness to please, came from the fact that I was owned by him. While I was capable of fulfilling my obligations in this manner; I have come to realize, for me, it was the equivalent of making a connection with sparkplugs to a distributor cap, only leaving some of the wires loose; it caused miss-fires in the relationship.

quote:


Darcyandthedark:



Let me know if my last post help or made any sense and answered what I feel surrender 'is' to me. 
 

Yes, it did; thank you.

quote:


Onmykneesforhim:



I should have looked here a while ago. Or did it just make submission more *dangerous*? Is it looked at like that a Master/Mistress is our center/diety?
 

This statement reminds me of my interpretation, of the difference between the relationship I had, and the one I hope to have.
 
My first relationship was like riding a rollercoaster, it had the ups and downs; slow and fast spots, in large degrees.
 
The relationship I hope for will be more like riding the “tilt-a-whirl”. It is a much more level ride, with smaller ups and downs, and the most exciting part of the ride is getting one’s compartment spinning so fast that g-force kicks in.
 
While both rides provide a similar sense of excitement, I am scared shitless of letting go, on my own accord, while riding a rollercoaster, (long story); I am extremely comfortable doing so, on the “tilt-a-whirl”.
 
quote:


Slaverosebeauty:

Relationships are all about give and take, its not 50/50; it might end up close in the end to that balance, yet, one partner gives more in some ways and takes more in some ways.
 

I agree, a balance based on a pivot point, not on equality; yes? 

quote:


What about 'submit'? Thats another word for surrender, if the word surrender means 'defeate' to you, then maybe you should just replace that word with another. I will be the first to admit that when I was growing up the idea of submitting to another {Christian beliefs state that a woman should be 'submissive to her husband'} was so far out of my scope I was appauled by the thought, then I go a wakeup call, and realized, it WAS what I wanted, needed, craved and must have, deep down.
 
 
I was very much the same way; it just wasn’t being presented in a way that made sense to me.

quote:


Sleazybutterfly:



Yes, it may sound a bit dramatic or fairytailish
 
 
I don’t think so. :)

quote:


TemptingNviceSub:

 

To the OP..po..ta..toe...po..taaaa.toh...I find myself often amazed by how a single word can create so many verying definitions, reactions..I never realized the English language was so inept at adequate descriptive values...so as in most cases..whatever you want it to be..there it is!
 
 
I already knew my prospective on the topic and how I felt about it. I realize though, life is not one dimensional and I can not possibly see all sides of a topic, from the one side I happen to be standing on at any given time, and that I have, as of yet, not stood on all sides of every topic. So I asked for people to explain to me how they saw the word, from where they were standing, to see if I could figure out what I was missing.
 
It was my reading these message boards, which made it clear to me; many words, mean different things, to different people.

Thank you all.
 
Sincerely,
 
k


_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/14/2007 1:50:40 AM   
NoirUMC


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There's a silly little book or story that I've never read--and will probably never read, since I already know the premise anyway. (Or at least, I know it according to whoever told me the story, right? I'm lazy about the whole reading bit. Sowwy.) It's called "The Mouse That Roared," about a third world country that picked a fight with a superpower and immediately surrendered so that they could receive foreign aid and be rebuilt into a nation with modern technology and industry.

Surrender to get what you want?

How applicable is something like that? Since I'm not interested in surrendering, I'm not qualified to answer.

_____________________________

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Working around the clock to find new and entertaining misspellings

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RE: surrenering or ? - 6/14/2007 2:05:40 AM   
eyesopened


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A good friend of mine once described me as dichotomy personified and it makes sense to me that surrender means peace and acceptance, that bondage equals freedom and that i am honored by my position of service.  How people can see that pain can be pleasure but not understand surrender puzzles me.  To me Power Exchange is an exchange not unlike kenetic energy becoming electrical energy and electrical engery becoming heat or light or back to kenetic.  Surrender doesn't equal end, it marks a beginning.  That i surrender my will doesn't mean i stop having a will, that i surrender power doesn't make me powerless.

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